world champion multiple times but no olympic medals

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by dariaparadise, May 11, 2011.

  1. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah this year's worlds was a lot like 2008 in the respect that no one skated well in the FS, and the only lady who skated fairly well in the FS (Yuna in 08, Alena this year) was too far back after the SP to really deserve to win. It's a little dissapointing, but when I went back and watched the top 6 ladies freeskates, none of them were really that bad, and most of them were actually quite good, just not WOW. But I sort of expected it really, where Yuna took the whole season off, Mao was rebuilding, Miki was being conservative, Carolina was injured. I mean when you keep in mind Alissa won the GPF, Kanako medaled there, Sarah won Euros, and Miki won pretty much everything else, was anyone expecting to see great, technically groundbreaking skating at this year's worlds? I know I wasn't...
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2011
  2. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    Lets hope the ladies really bring it next season because this year was lacking to say least. I want to see the ladies really push themselves when it comes to their jumps. There is no reason why they are not doing more 3-3 combo's.
     
  3. wonderlen

    wonderlen New Member

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    Well you cannot compare apple and orange. If you paid more attention, the rules are changed. There is no spiral in the SP, so take away 2-3 base point + possible GOE. That already leave out about 4-5 points in the SP. In the free skate spiral is cherographic one with no level, all skaters get the same base point. The GOE is down from +3 to +2, so given 7 jumping passes and non-jumps elements, GOE mark is already reduced by 1/3 or more.

    The only event marked correctly and not super inflated is the men event in Vancouver. The other three is pretty much, super inflation and seem like one big promotion of the figure skating event.
     
  4. wonderlen

    wonderlen New Member

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    I think ladies traditionally always has been struggle with jumps department and only a handful ever do 3+3 combos. And when you have judges that are nippicking every degree of rotation, its hard to attemp.
     
  5. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    True, but on the other hand, the penalties are not as strict this now, with the UR and DG rules, and it does seem like we're seeing less than we did in the past. Kostner and Ando both used to do 3-3's regularly, right? As did Asada.
     
  6. miki88

    miki88 New Member

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    I thought 2008 Ladies event was more exciting than this one. It wasn't a well-skated one but the top ladies really fought for that title. This year, it seemed as if no one really even wanted to win. Even Ando, who skated well, just appeared to feel relieved that she was the last one standing.
     
  7. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I am not just looking at scores, I am looking at the quality of skating. And despite missing elements, the men were scoring lights years higher than Vancouver, even factoring in the quads and that Chan is a much better skater than Lysacek. Scoring inflation/
    genorosity rises each year so that more than negates a spin taken away, etc...

    I am sure Kim skating as she did in Vancouver would have beaten the field in Moscow by over 30 points. In fact there is a good chance even Nagasu skating as she did in Vancouver would have won Worlds, despite that her point total in Vancouver was lower than the Moscow winning point total (and that she came only 4th in Vancouver).
     
  8. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I agree. 2008 was far superior to 2011 even though it also wasnt the best.
     
  9. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I think the extended season had something to do with how this year's worlds panned out - everyone just seemed really tired and ready for the season to be over.
     
  10. bbkenn

    bbkenn Well-Known Member

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    If I remember correctly, they came in 4th in 2 of their Olympics.
     
  11. paulee

    paulee Member

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    I am a bit of a stats freak, lol, so I decided to look at those individual/ teams who won 3 or more Worlds medals of any colour and yet did not win an Olympic medal. I only looked at Worlds Post-WWII. Some of the skaters listed are still eligible.

    Mens:

    T. Eldredge (6 world medals)
    B. Joubert (6)
    K. Browning (5)
    A. Fadeev (4)
    E. Danzer (3)
    P. Chan (3)
    A. Giletti (3)
    T. Brown (3)
    E. Kiraly (3)

    Ladies:

    M. Ando (3 world medals)
    E. Zayak (3)
    M. Butyrskaya (3)
    S. Bonaly (3)
    F. Suguri (3)
    C. Kostner (3)

    Pairs:

    Baess/ Thierbach (5 world medals)
    Petrova/ Tikhonov (4)
    Jelinek/ Jelinek (4)
    Nicks/ Nicks (4)
    Shishkova/ Naumov (3)
    Eltsova/ Bushkov (3)
    Meno/ Sand (3)
    Kauffmann/ Kauffmann (3)

    Ice Dance:

    Bourne/ Kraatz (6 world medals)
    Denkova/ Staviyski (4)
    Green/ Watts (3) (all medals came in 1973-76 period, yet placed out of medals at 1976 Olympics)
    Blumberg/ Seibert (3)
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2011
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  12. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    I am sure the change of schedule/location affected everyone's mental preparation, but I think everyone gave his/her best shot. I was just happy that worlds took place only one month later.
     
  13. Mafke

    Mafke New Member

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    Okay, now I'm curious about skaters who have two world medals (any color) and no olympic medal.

    Non-definitive list going back to 1970 or so:

    Ladies
    Julie Lynn Holmes USA (bronze 70, silver 71)
    Caudio Kristofics-Binder Austria (bronze 81, 82)
    Tiffany Chin USA (bronze 85, 86)
    Jill Trenary USA (bronze 89, gold 90)
    Claudia Leistner FRG (silver 83, 89)

    Men
    Sergei Volkov USSR (silver 74, gold 75)
    Norbert Schramm FRG (silver 82, 83)
    Christopher Bowman USA (silver 89, bronze 90)
    Takeshi Honda Japan (bronze 02, 03)
     
  14. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    May need some blanks filled in...

    Pairs:
    JoJo Starbuck/Kenneth Shelley (bronze 71, bronze 72)
    Tai Babilonia/Randy Gardner (bronze 77, bronze 78, gold 79)
    Irina Vorobieva/Alexander Vlasov (bronze 76, silver 77)
    Sabine Baeß/Tassilo Thierbach (bronze 79, silver 81, gold 82, silver 83, bronze 84)
    Marina Pestova/Stanislav Leonovich (bronze 80, silver 82)
    Barbara Underhill/Paul Martini (bronze 83, gold 84)
    Evgenia Shishkova/Vadim Naumov (bronze 93, gold 94, silver 95)
    Radka Kovaříková/René Novotný (silver 92, gold 95)
    Marina Eltsova/Andrei Bushkov (bronze 94, gold 96, silver 97)
    Jenni Meno/ Todd Sand (bronze 95, bronze 96, silver 98)
    Maria Petrova/Alexei Tikhonov (gold 00, bronze 03, silver 05, bronze 06)
    Yuko Kavaguti/Alexander Smirnov (bronze 09, bronze 10)
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2011
  15. pollyanna

    pollyanna playing the Glad Game

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    Tai and Randy won gold in 1979.

    Vorobieva/Lisovsky won gold in 1981. It was Vorobieva/Vlasov who won bronze 76, silver 77, :)
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2011
  16. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    Fixed, thank you! :)
     
  17. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    Putting Chan on this list is rather ridiculous. Yes he's already won 3 World medals but he's still early in his career and was only 19 and not a real medal favorite in Vancouver. Now if he doesn't medal in Sochi he'll be at the top of the list.
     
  18. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, unfortunately.
     
  19. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    Well, the person wasn't saying that he will never win an Olympic medal. They acknowledged that some of the skaters on the list, like Chan and Ando, are still eligible.
     
  20. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I agree Chan doesnt belong on that list considering he is the obvious favorite for 2014 already. Ando is 26 and unlikely to even be around, let alone medal if she is, in Sochi so her inclusion makes sense.