world champion multiple times but no olympic medals

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by dariaparadise, May 11, 2011.

  1. dariaparadise

    dariaparadise Member

    52
    16
    8
    as title self explains.
    Miki just became the world champion for the second time but she does not have an olympic medal (yet). is there anyone in the past who did not get any medal at olympics but did earn multiple medals at worlds? I know Kurt Browning. But anyone in ladies for example? Just curious...
     
    Vash01 and (deleted member) like this.
  2. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

    4,982
    967
    113
    Maria Butyrskaya won Worlds in 1999 and also got bronze medals in 1998 and 2000. I'm sure there are other examples.
     
  3. angelicadiablo

    angelicadiablo New Member

    7
    1
    3
    Todd Eldridge
     
  4. paulee

    paulee Member

    65
    8
    8
    Hey,
    Since you asked for multiple World Championships, that is what I narrowed it down to:

    In Ladies:
    L. Kronberger (World Champion in 1908, 09, 10, 11) never completed at Olympics
    O. Von Meray-Horvath (World Champion in 1912, 13, 14) never competed at Olympics
    M. Taylor (World Champion in 1938, 39) was 7th in 1932 Olympics and did not compete in 1936
    Miki Ando - already mentioned
    A. Vrzanova (World Champion in 1949, 50) was 5th at 1948 Olympics

    In Mens:
    K. Browning - already mentioned
    F. Kachler (World Champion in 1912, 13, 23) did not compete at Olympics
    G. Hugel - was multiple World Champion before Olympics in 1908
    E. Danzer (World Champion in 1966, 67, 68) finished 4th at 1968 Olympics

    In Pairs:
    Jaross-Szabo/ Wrede were World Champions in 1925, 27 did not compete at Olympics

    In Ice Dance (since 1976 obviously):
    Denkova/ Staviyski were World Champions in 2006,07 and finished 18th in 1998, 7th in 2002, and 5th at 2006 Olympics

    For one-time World Champions, the list is quite a bit longer - Ladies: Zayak, Busch, Butyrskaya, Trenary, Biellmann, Sato, Meissner... I have not done it for the other three disciplines but you get the idea
    :)
     
  5. RockTheTassel

    RockTheTassel Well-Known Member

    1,149
    153
    63
    Brian Joubert has six World medals, one of them gold, but hasn't medalled in any of the three Olympics he's skated in.

    The biggest example, as already mentioned, is Kurt Browning. It must be frustrating to have the ability to win four World titles yet never get an Olympic medal.
     
  6. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    13,704
    787
    113
    The only ones that really stand out for me are Browning and Danzer. They were the dominant skaters of their era, Danzer even more than Browning probably, and didnt medal at the Olympics.

    As for some of those others they dont surprise me as much:

    Denkova & Stayviski- love them but they won their World titles after alot of their old rivals retired. Still dissapointing considering they only missed 1 World podium from 2003-2007.

    Miki Ando- the years she won Worlds the level of skating was nothing like the Olympics when she was at her peak, the 2nd one imparticular was an extremely poor level. Has missed the podium at Worlds most times she competes too despite her 2 World titles.

    Vrzanova- looks like she stayed on to win after the other top people retired too, and just wasnt financially able/motivated/young enough to stay all the way for the next one.
     
  7. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

    29,018
    3,874
    113
    Miki has competed at Worlds 6 times (excluding the time when she withdrew due to injury after the SP) and medaled 3 times. That's hardly not medaling most times.
     
    Vash01 and (deleted member) like this.
  8. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    13,704
    787
    113
    I forgot she didnt compete at the 2006 Worlds so figured initially it was 8 Worlds and 2 Olympics, but I definitely counted 2008 as competing. 7 Worlds + 2 Olympics = 9 Worlds and Olympics, and she medalled in 3 total, so usually she does not medal. She has only medalled at the Grand Prix final 2 times for that matter.
     
  9. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

    3,685
    340
    83
    She has more medals than most - including 12 Grand Prix medals out if 15 competitions. The 3 times she didn't medal, she was 4th.
     
  10. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

    12,543
    1,320
    113
    Kurt Browning is the most shocking one.
    It's already a great achivement for Miki Ando to have been 2-time World champion. ;)
     
  11. SamuraiK

    SamuraiK Well-Known Member

    1,741
    236
    63
    Speaking of Miki': Has there ever been a bigger gap between 2 world titles (4 years)..??
    I know Pang & Tong are tied in that record (2006 and 2010).
     
  12. a56

    a56 New Member

    232
    9
    0
    1. 10 year difference between titles:
    Gilbert Fuchs of Germany: 1896 and 1906 World Champion
    Fritz Kachler of Austria: 1912, 1913, and 1923 World Champion

    2. 9 year difference between titles:
    Ludowika Jakobsson-Eilers and Walter Jakobsson of Finland: 1911, 1914, and 1923 World Champions (Pairs)
    Helene Engelmann of Austria: 1913, 1922, and 1924 World Champion in Pairs with two different partners: Karl Mejstrik in 1913, and Alfred Berger in 1922 and 1924.

    2. 6 year difference between titles:
    Jan Hoffmann of Germany: 1974 and 1980 World Champion

    3. 5 year difference between titles:
    Gillis Grafstrom of Sweden: 1922, 1924, and 1929 World Champion

    4. 4 year difference between world titles:
    Miki Ando of Japan: 2007 and 2011 World Champion
    Xue Shen and Hongbo Zhao of China: 2002, 2003, and 2007 World Champions
    Qing Pang and Jian Tong of China: 2006 and 2010 World Champions
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2011
  13. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

    2,129
    90
    48
    They were only champions once, but Bourne and Kraatz got world bronze four times (1996-99), silver in 2002 and won in 2003, but got no Olympic medals.
     
  14. SamuraiK

    SamuraiK Well-Known Member

    1,741
    236
    63

    Wow thanks for that info, amazing about the 9-10 years gap between titles but then again figure skating was much more simple back then..
     
  15. Mafke

    Mafke New Member

    1,125
    220
    0
    For pairs maybe, but for singles 'simpler' is not the word I'd use - "not as atheltically punishing" is closer.
     
  16. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

    26,863
    4,042
    113
    It seems the thread is about past world champs who won multiple world titles. That's a select group, and I think all have been mentioned.

    If we included those with at least one world title and at least one other world medal, the list could look like this:

    The first name that came to my mind when I read the title of this thread was Kurt Browning- 4 time world champion but no Olympic medal of any color. That's so rare.

    Todd Eldredge (one world title, other world medals)

    Joubert (one wc, plus other medals except Oly)


    Ice dance:

    Bourne & Kratz (IIRC 2002 world silver, 2003 world champs)
    Denkova-Staviyski (2006 wc, and I think they had a couple of silvers)


    Pairs:

    Shishkova-Naumov:1994 world champs, 95 silver, but 4th place at the Olympics in 94 was their best Olympic performance. However, if not for the return of the pros, they would have won at least the silver at the Olympics)

    Kovarikova-Novotny: 92 world silver, 93 world champs, but no Olympic medal

    Can Babilonia-Gardner be in this group of one wc and other world medals (not sure if they had any)?



    Ladies:

    Maria Butyrskaya (99 world champ, 2000 bronze, and more?)

    Jill Trenary (1990 world champ, 1989 bronze, no Oly medal)

    Can Denise Biellman be included? She won a world title and turned pro. Did she win a world medal before her world title?
     
    PeterG and (deleted member) like this.
  17. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

    26,863
    4,042
    113
    I am not sure what you mean. She was competing against Yu na the Olympic champion, Mao the two time world champion. Is that what you call an extremely poor level? May be that's not what you meant. I may have misinterpreted your post.
     
  18. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    13,704
    787
    113
    I meant the quality of the competition as it was skated and in the form the skaters were in was very poor. Yu Na came in having not competed in a year and having hardly prepared for Worlds and skated like it too. As I said in another thread she is well over 30 points below her caliber of skating at her best. As for Mao Asada she is either in the worst slump of her career or she is finished (I hope it the former obviously). The medal winning performances at Worlds this year were the worst in years, Ando wouldnt have won a World title since 1990 with those performances (well if you only compare her to Trenary, Ito would blow her away if we assume figures are gone), and Kostner's bronze performance wouldnt have medalled since the 80s.

    To really put in perspective compare the winning scores from Vancouver last year to the various events of the 2011 Worlds:

    Pairs: Olympics 216.57, 2011 Worlds 217.85
    Mens: Olympics 257.67, 2011 Worlds 280.98
    Ladies: Olympics 228.56, 2011 Worlds 195.78
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2011
  19. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

    26,863
    4,042
    113
    I would not belittle Miki's titles just because her competitors made mistakes. If we did that, we would have to downgrade (for example) Kristi Yamaguchi's 1992 OGM or Urmanov's 1994 OGM (I know some people still do). You can't really compare different fields or different competitions. I thought this year's world championship was very good, considering it was the year after the Olympics when usually the quality of the whole field goes down due to Olympic champions retiring. I thought Miki skated wonderfully and totally deserved her titles. It's not her fault if Mao decided to make major changes to her technique or if Yu na decided to take the year off.
     
  20. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    13,704
    787
    113
    5 triples, a major mistake, no triple-triple attemps, mediocre spins, spirals, and artistry, a performance about 55% as good as her own 2007 World title performance, and 65% as good as her 2009 bronze performance, and the gold medal. You find that wonderful and are impressed? OK your choice I guess.

    This years Worlds was excellent in 3 of the 4 events, so the worst ladies event in decades was only a minor blip. It might as well have not even existed (and I suspect most fans who saw it have already forgetten it has).

    It is a shame Rochette chose to take this season off. Even she could have won Worlds easily this year, and she wouldnt have had to even better her Vancouver performances.
     
  21. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

    26,863
    4,042
    113
    Sorry, but I enjoyed watching the ladies competition. I was sorry to see Mao make mistakes, and Rachel was an aberration, but I still thought it was a good competition. We will just have to agree to disagree on this.
     
  22. Mafke

    Mafke New Member

    1,125
    220
    0
    No, Biellmann only had the one world medal. But Elaine Zayak would qualify

    82 - world champion
    81 - silver, 84 - bronze, but no oly medal
     
  23. dariaparadise

    dariaparadise Member

    52
    16
    8
    Thank you all! Yeah to be honest I also thought it is more a surprise that Miki won two gold world medals (or three medals) than the fact that she has never won a olympic medal... then looking at the list of other champions without olympic medals, there were no names really surprise me (or most I don't know since I don't follow skating pre 1984olympics I would say) except Kurt. I was quite surprised to see though there are so many 1-time world ladies champions w/o olympic medal, but then they have usually finished 4th-8th, so I think this is not quite a surprise either!!
     
  24. Lainerb

    Lainerb New Member

    2,737
    237
    0
    You're a very bittah person. Anyway clearly the judges did not find her spins or PCS to be mediocre or they wouldn't have scored her as such. Anyway the only thing worse than her 2007 title were obviously her jumps where as her transitions and just about every other area in the PCS was vastly improved.
     
  25. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

    3,685
    340
    83
    :rofl:

    Easily? :lol:
     
  26. DarrellH

    DarrellH New Member

    4,763
    375
    0
    Emmerich Danzer 1966, 67 and 68 World champion. 5th in 64 Olympics, 4th in 68 Olympics
     
  27. JockProf

    JockProf New Member

    109
    17
    0
    Tai & Randy - Gold in 79, Bronze in 77 and 78, and no Olympic medal (still makes me sad ...)
     
  28. pollyanna

    pollyanna playing the Glad Game

    9,036
    2,248
    113
    nm
     
  29. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

    10,657
    350
    83
    ITA. Miki's spins and spirals in 2007 were a bit :yikes: , and now, at least in my opinion, they are quite good. Not amazingly beautiful, but good. Anyone who thinks Miki is weak in that department now, should take a look at some of her older performances. There is a BIG improvement.

    Also, it's not Miki's fault that no one else skated better than she did. To the poster who complained, in your opinion, who should have won if not her? Yuna who popped open an intended triple, singled the second half of a combination, and skated like she didn't want to be there? Carolina who attempted one 3f and no 3lz, popped open one of her harder triples, and had shaky landings on two other jumps? Alena who skated well from a technical standpoint but who's spins are sloppy, overall skating clunky, and is much weaker from a PCS standpoint than the other ladies in contention? Alissa who fell on her opening jump, sucking the life out of her performance, and had otherwise small, telegraphed, and questionably rotated jumps? Mao who popped one jump and cheated/shakily landed all the others? Come on.

    It wasn't a greatly skated ladies FS event, I'll admit that, but Miki deserved to win. The only other person who skated better than she did in the FS was Alena Leonova and we all knew she was never going to get (nor did she deserve to get) the PCS needed to win the title so the only chance she had was if everyone else better than her bombed, which they didn't.
     
  30. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    13,704
    787
    113
    So you are basically explaining how the whole event sucked and was embarassingly low quality. Which was my whole point anyway so what is yours exactly other than to just agree with me apparently. I never said anything about whether the result itself was right or wrong, frankly it was about sifting out the nicest looking piece of turd in the pile, and I am happy to leave that to do the judges as I wouldnt want to watch any of those performances (other than maybe Kostner's which was beautiful but didnt have the content to win) again. Like I said Yu Na's Olympic performances would have won by well over 30 points, basically an 8 fall margin, while none of the performances would have even made the podium in Vancouver. And Miki's winning performance wouldnt have won a World title since the 80s probably, if we assume figures are out.