With a loud Jodel: German skating news

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Hedwig, Jun 13, 2010.

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  1. sandra_persch

    sandra_persch Well-Known Member

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    its really tricky to get the top 3 right ... here are my guesses

    Ladies
    1. Hecken
    2. Paulinus
    3. Drescher or Füssinger

    Mens
    1. Liebers P.
    2. Wiecorek
    3. Dotzauer or Fentz

    Pairs
    1. S/S
    2. H/W
    3. G/J

    Dance
    1. Z/G
    2. F/G ... thats wishful thinking I know
    3. K/C
  2. sus2850

    sus2850 Member

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    I am not good at predicting, especially as I don't know in what shape some of the skaters are. With the ladies for example I think it is a shame that Julia Pfrengle cannot compete (she is injured). And I don't know how Katharina Häcker is doing, late last season she was quite in a good form, at least according to the scores (but these were no international competitions).
  3. Jeschke

    Jeschke Well-Known Member

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    so, the german federation announced the team for the european championships:

    men:
    peter liebers
    dennis wieczorek (qual.)

    ladies:
    sarah hecken

    pairs:
    savchenko/szolkowy
    hausch/wende
    gierok/just

    ice dance:
    zhiganshina/gaszi


    does someone know (hopefully sandra ;) ) why the german federation chose gierok/just instead of vartmann/van cleave? vartmann/van cleave came in second at the nationals behind s/s with obviously more points than gierok/just.
  4. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Posted in the German Nationals thread in Kiss and Cry:
  5. Jeschke

    Jeschke Well-Known Member

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    thanks sylvia, i thought the previous difference was not that high, but that explains everything. maybe the bette choice; at the intarnational competitions the program components for gierok/just were obviusly higher than those from vartmann/van cleave.
  6. grandma

    grandma New Member

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    It doesn`t really make much difference which of the two pairs are sent to Bern. Both are no way near to Hausch /Wende and certainly a million years away from S/S. In the Bern the field is not very strong.... apart from S/S, K/S,B/L,G/E, B/H,H/W.... and my "junior" favorites Kadlekova /Bidar (CZE)
    At Nationals :
    Vartmann / van Cleave showed stronger nerves than before although they were under pressure. For the first time Mari knows hat she can`t take anything for granted any more and has to fight and work in order to be accepted again. Mari is avery gifted skater , but just playing the diva as she has for many years has brought her into this very unsatisfying position:glamor:
    Gierok/ Just
    Their Free program at nationals was without any technical difficulties apart from the 3T. In the short she fell on the 3SThr and in the free they didn`t even attempt to do 3 throws and only doubled them.:rolleyes:
    Europeans are not the problem, if one of them were sent to WC either pair would probably have difficulties to qualify for the free.
  7. LLOS

    LLOS New Member

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    Well, Hausch/Wende started low too, they did not had over 130 points the first year, so we just have to wait and see how they develop. All three won't reach the level of S/S but does that really matter? Just a few do. They will work hard and get better with time, we should not expect to much. G/J will be very happy to participate at Euros what they did not expect at all this season. I do belive they have more potential than V/C.

    Really? The protocols do say some level 4 elements, can't be that bad :p
  8. grandma

    grandma New Member

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    Both pairs would have been foolish not to expect and work for a participation at least for EC, after all what have they been training for? They need the qualification and participation in order to have a mere chance for the national squad for next season. They will surely not acquire the points, so the participation at a major ISU championship is the only way.
    If Vartmann / VanCleave are not nominated for WC ( and I don`t believe they have a chance ) Mari will be out of the squad the 2nd year round.
    As everyone knows Vartmann / Van Cleave have left Dortmund and have changed their training base to Berlin taking their trainer with them, till the end of the season, according to a newspaper article on the german figure skating web site he will still commute between Berlin and Dortmund, but it seems as if Gierok / Just will have a fresh start with a new trainer after this season, which I think will do them good:)
  9. sandra_persch

    sandra_persch Well-Known Member

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    The German Federation has not used its 3rd spot in the past. Also maybe they were thinking Vartmann / van Cleave both very experienced pairs skaters would beat them by a mile

    I have a feeling they might still make the Team despite the fact that they are not send to Euros or Worlds. I see both Teams improving from competition to competition and it would be foolish to exclude the Nationals silver medalist and include the bronze medalist just because one went to Euros and the other one didn't.

    Mari & Aaron still have 3 ISU Senior events to improve and show the federation that they deserve to be on the team after their first season together. Does anyone know if they plan to compete at Bavarian Open, Mont Blanc Trophy or Challenge Cup in March?

    Katharina finished school at the end of this season and it will be interesting to see what they decide. As long as its not one of the Gnilozubovs (Katharinas old singles coach and nightmare). I wonder if they would even consider going to Norman Jeschke who started coaching this season.
    Somehow I can't see them moving to Oberstdorf aKa worlds end or cows village.
  10. marsden

    marsden New Member

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    Actually Gieroks former singles coach does not do pairs training, as far as I know. His wife does.
    Why on earth did the poor girl stay with them for so many years and didn`t switch to one of the other top trainers in Dortmund, if she felt unhappy.
    As I understand you it must have been her parents who didn`t let her.
  11. grandma

    grandma New Member

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    The german federation would be foolish not to use the third spot this year, as I wrote before either of the two pairs can skate between 8-10 place. Giving German 3 pairs under the first 10.
    Do you really think that Mari and Aaron as much as I like them as a pair can mange the points they need for securing a position on the national squad?
    What you do not understand that the problem lies within the history of the pair Vartmann / Just , the disaster starting with the unfortunate press conference after the
    German Nationals in Dresden 2008.
    Steuer was rightly unsatisfied at that time that the working ethic of his counterpart in Dortmund was financially supported, whereas his pair had to struggle to meet ends
  12. Lisa

    Lisa New Member

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    Let's not get back into that discussion, okay? :scream:
  13. grandma

    grandma New Member

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    You are right Lisa:D
    But in order to understand why one pair is given the preference and the other not, one has to go to the roots.... as life before this incident was bliss and happiness for the pairs seeded in 2nd or third place after S/S with only their travel arrangmennts and shopping lists to worry about:shuffle:
  14. sandra_persch

    sandra_persch Well-Known Member

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    I really hope so! Plus there is always this little exception clause in the criteria whereby the coaches can suggest to admin additional skaters / team even if they haven't met the criteria.

    A similar scenario might apply to Landgraf / Wenzig. They are in their first year as juniors and doing really well, but because Matti is already 18 they have to reach scored of 113 twice. So far they have score 98.92, 110.69, 104.23 and 101.83. Should they leave the best/only? Junior Team competing right now off the team because they might not be able to reach the score twice? She is too young to do ISU event this season so they only have 2 competitions left

    I sure hope the federation will be smart enough to see improvements and potential over some silly scoring requirements on a piece of paper.
  15. marsden

    marsden New Member

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    I agree with you regarding Wenzig/ Landgraf, as they already made an exception last year as he was already too old for D/C. Here the rule goes that they want to support a young team which undoubtably has potential, which is also due to fact that Frau Scheibe is an exceptional trainer., who knows what to look out for in a pair.
    Mari carries the burden that one is highly unsatisfied with her former behavior and work ethic. She has to do a lot to regain the confidence.
  16. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    I feel like Groundhog Day and it's very possible I asked this question like 5 times already (or maybe I'm just crazy :p) but are Zhiganshina and Gazsi married?
  17. sandra_persch

    sandra_persch Well-Known Member

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    Nope :D but they are romantically involved and living together ;)
  18. grandma

    grandma New Member

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    Well PIrouette says they live together in order to save the costs as Zhinganshina has no financial means as she is not allowed to work in Germany because she does not have a permanent residency permit which would allow her to take on a job. If I am correct it is clearly stated that they are not "together, together " , but then sandra might have a more insight news.:D
  19. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    It's a shame because if they got married, maybe she could finally get German citizenship to compete at Sochi.

    I mean they've been living in Germany for almost 2 years already now.

    It would be such a shame if they could never do Olympics. :(
  20. Jeschke

    Jeschke Well-Known Member

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    what a performance of nelli&alex today.
    if they go on like that, the german federation won´t hesitate to fight for her passport :p
  21. vivika1982

    vivika1982 Well-Known Member

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    They skated very well :)


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djtvaJr-Kco
  22. sandra_persch

    sandra_persch Well-Known Member

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    Now that they live in Oberstdorf getting the passport should be "easier" than before. Oberstdorf just got it status of National Training Center back so hopefully they can help. Having an excellent Senior Dance Team should be important enough for them to help with the passport!

    Having great international results sure helped Aljona get hers. So if Nelli & Alex keep up the great work it should be in everyones best interest get Nelli hers too. After all they might be getting good enough to secure a second spot for Germany by 2013 :D ... I don't mean Euros but Worlds and Olympics ;)
  23. sandra_persch

    sandra_persch Well-Known Member

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    German Junior Worlds and EYOF Qualifier was held this weekend in Chemnitz and the singles teams are

    Junior Worlds
    Isabel Drescher
    Nicole Schott
    sub Christina Erdel
    sub Jessica Fuessinger
    Denis Wieczorek
    sub Martin Rappe
    sub Paul Fentz

    EOYF
    Christina Erdel
    sub Jessica Fuessiner

    Anton Kempf
    sub Ivan Aldinger

    http://www.deu-online.de/download/2011_JWM-Quali.pdf
  24. Jeschke

    Jeschke Well-Known Member

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    thanks for the news. that´s nice, isabel for her third time, hope she skates better than last year, love her skating
  25. sandra_persch

    sandra_persch Well-Known Member

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    I was soooo happy for her. Before this weekend she was third in the ranking. She was down with fever early last week and we weren't even sure if she would be able to compete. and now not only did she move up to get a spot she won the whole thing !!!
  26. grandma

    grandma New Member

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    It is a pity that Sarah Hecken isn`t sent to JWC as she would secure a second spot for JWC next season and also manage to get more spots for the german ladies on JGP circuit.
  27. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    I agree.

    I understand the "spread the wealth" thinking but since there are two spots anyhow, Sarah's higher finish would mean more spots next season.
  28. sandra_persch

    sandra_persch Well-Known Member

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    Not sure Sarah would want to go to JW though. She was down with a virus before Euros and could barely practice at all. she wasn't allowed to do any jums for 2-3 weeks
    I can see her taking the time before Worlds just trying to get back into shape and get her consistency back

    Isabel is back in Dortmund with her old coach and living at home with her parents. and if Nationals and the qualifier are any indication she is slowly getting back to her old self.

    Nicole was a surprise for me at Nationals. While the qualifier wasn't as good it was still really good and if she can skate a clean short she should be able to make it to the free skate and get close to the 120 points overall again. Assuming the judges don't punish her for never having done a JGP

    Both girls are a direct entry to the short programm if I read ISU Communication 1640 correctly.
    LynnW and (deleted member) like this.
  29. Jeschke

    Jeschke Well-Known Member

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    the second spot will be gone, that´s for sure.
    but i am very happy for isabel, i enjoyed her skating very much, i think she has nice skills, wish she can bring back her old form and jumps...
  30. sandra_persch

    sandra_persch Well-Known Member

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    Lots just hope Nicole makes in into the free skate and Isabel skates 2 clean programms and makes the Top 12 ;)
  31. Jeschke

    Jeschke Well-Known Member

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    very optimistic ;)
  32. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    That will surely happen. ;)
  33. sandra_persch

    sandra_persch Well-Known Member

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    While we still have some important competitions ahead of us I though it would be interesting to make an unofficial list of the National Team as of today. There are still 2 national team envelop competitions and a lot of international ones coming up

    Pairs
    A - Savchenko / Szolkowy .... that Top 10 at worlds should be realistic
    B - Hausch / Wende, Gierok / Just

    Ladies
    B - Hecken
    C - Drescher, Erdel, Fuessinger, Schott N., Weinzierl
    DC - Baumgaertel, Bock, Dubinski, Helleken, Herceg, Hoehn, Proelss, Schott V.

    Mens
    B - Liebers, Wieczorek
    C - Dotzauer, Fentz, Rappe, Ulanovski

    no criteria has been published for Dance :rolleyes:

    have met the criteria once and need a second one
    Ladies
    B - Haecker
    C - Herceg, Pfrengle, Zetzsche
    DC - Fancy, Fritzsche, Lorenz, Scheidt, Weber

    Mens
    C - Aldinger, Berneck, Polizoakis, Schoepke, Schreubel
    DC - Kempf, Suzuki

    injured skaters with only or or no minimum score
    Ladies C - Hoffmann, Pfrengle, Poschner, Willner
    Mens C - Schoepke
    Mens DC - Lohmeyer

    Criteria Single http://www.eislauf-union.de/download/BUNDESKADERNORMEN EINZELLAUFEN 2010.2011.pdf
    Criteria Pairs http://www.eislauf-union.de/download/BUNDESKADERNORMEN_PAARLAUFEN.pdf
  34. grandma

    grandma New Member

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    Maybe it is good for the ice dancers that no criteria has been published.
    This can only subsequently mean that all older ice dancers, who are now on the national squad will remain. and the decision who gets in or gets out is decided individually.
    In team sports like ice dancing and pairs I think this might be the better way than setting down criteria which can not be fulfilled.
    Why should a pair like Wenzig / Landgraf (J1) not be in the national squad, because they do not have enough points, but show potential.
    On the Junior level one should be very careful. we don`t have many pairs or ice dancers, why not encourage them and give them a spot on the national team. Last season no " younger " Junior Ice dancers made the D/C National Team, this must be a smack into the face of the trainers concerned who have trouble enough keeping the teams together.
    On the other hand in the pairs criteria Gierok / Just meet the B criteria as they participated in the finals of the EC, but have unfortunately never scored the necessary points in any competition. Vartmann / Van Cleave although S2 at German Championships might also not succeed in getting the points, but have good potential, but were misfortunate not to be nominated for EC ,will not be taken on the team next season.
    My pledge would be to nominate both pairs for the national squad, after all one should maybe also think about keeping a broader level in order to have the chance to have more skaters which have a pair skating or ice dancing " eduction ".
    In Juniors Salatzki / Seegert had a rough year why not encourage them to continue
    just like Wenzig / Landgraf. Why not encourage ice dancers like Müller / Gierke, Häuser / Lerche, Preiss / Vogel , Schiffner / Salatzki. After all Germany is not as fortunate as the Russian federation or others in having so many skaters.
    I just hope for skaters who were injured this season, or who have lost a partner, or like Hermanns opted for defining themselves on a new level will still have a chance to remain on the team.
  35. sandra_persch

    sandra_persch Well-Known Member

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    They were added to the squad for this season even though Matti was too old for DC. I would fully expect them to be on the team and get JGP assignments for next season too. Linda is 12 and Matti 18. I can't see them being left of the team just because 118 points is still a bit much for them.

    Should be interesting to see what happens when Salatzki / Seegert start competing again after her injury is fully healed.

    I think last year is was absolutely the right decision. all teams weren't really doing that well on the international circuit and this should have been a wakeup all for the coaches! Some teams seem to have improved a lot and you don't have to be on the team to get ISU events in ice dancing. Its not like DC gets any funding and the to the dance seminars / training camps most of the teams got invited anyway

    I agree with you. I would say both or none. they could always put them on with the condition that they have to meet a certain criteria within the first half of the season like they did with some of the other teams and skaters this season

    I have done up an overview of how they did internationally so far this season
    http://www.eiskunstlauf-ecke-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=4698

    I can see them adding Vogel / Preiss and Schiffner / Salatzki, but I am not so sure about Häuser / Lerche. They were given the JGP in Dresden but didn't do to well and they only placed 8th at Nationals.

    Müller / Gerke is an interesting case. She is new to ice dancing. I think she has been doing it for a year now and they have already caught up with the other teams. guess we will have to wait and see how they do in the remaining competitions of the season.

    They did it this season and with skaters like Julia Pfrengle, Sandy Hoffmann and Hermanns injured I am sure they will keep the same rule for the new season too.
  36. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    I think Vartmann/Van Cleeve should be sent to Worlds. Gierok/Just didn't do well at all at Euros.
  37. oubik

    oubik Well-Known Member

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    Germany have only two spots for Worlds which are definitely going to S/S and Hausch/Wende.
  38. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Ahhh, I completely forgot. :duh:
  39. sandra_persch

    sandra_persch Well-Known Member

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    Based on the criteria published the German Team for Worlds should be

    Hecken
    Liebers
    Savchenko / Szolkowy & Hausch / Wende
    Zhiganshina / Gaszi
  40. oubik

    oubik Well-Known Member

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    I can confirm Ice Dance and Pairs (our team members told me :cool:). Do not know the singles tho, but are there any other options to Liebers and Hecken? I don´t think so.
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