Will Wagner ever make it?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by judgejudy27, Jan 30, 2011.

  1. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    13,596
    Will Ashley Wagner ever place top 2 at any semi major event (even her own Nationals, Four Continents, etc...) or make a World team for the U.S again? It is looking like increasingly more likely no. She has been dominated by Flatt, Nagasu, and Zhang (although no longer Zhang the last 2 seasons) for years now, veteran Czisny is still going stronger than ever, and now Gao and Zawadzki are both flying past her too. At Nationals 2008 she had the 2 skates of her life and still finished only 3rd behind a faltering Nagasu and Flatt. She did the triple lutz-triple loop in both programs and didnt put a foot wrong. I cant imagine her ever skating at that level again, and even that wasnt good enough to put her in the top 2 which is quite possibly the likely cutoff for U.S women World team spots still.
     
  2. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2004
    Messages:
    9,947
    It's possible but very slim; The skaters that placed ahead of her this year could very well mess up big time next year. What Ashley needs to do is to put together two clean programs at Nationals, which she has not done in the past few years.
     
  3. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    17,920
    If Alissa made it after all this time, Ashley can!
     
  4. RumbleFish

    RumbleFish New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2010
    Messages:
    1,004
    I don't see it happening. Sorry to say this, but I don't see much improvement in her skating. I was pulling for her to fix her flutz, when she said bye bye to outside edge last summer, but that promise didn't materialize. I don't know about Gao but Agnes will certainly surpass her next season.
     
  5. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    13,596
    Agnes and Gao finished above her at Nationals this year so havent they technically already surpassed her?
     
  6. miffy

    miffy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Messages:
    9,160
    I don't think it is very likely, the judges don't seem to help her, maybe as when she did go to Worlds that one time she didn't skate very well. It's a shame if that turns out to be her only chance. Of course the US ladies all seem to be inconsistent so if she has a good week it could still happen. :)
     
  7. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2002
    Messages:
    9,915
    I don't see it happening:

    1. She's a headcase about the short
    2. She leans over and skates like a speed skater, bobbing up and down, every time that she wants to get some speed
    3. She double foots some of her jumps every time she gets nervous
    (including those "not a foot wrong" skates)
    4. She still flutzes

    She might fix those and the headcase thing, but there are now a lot of skaters that have surpassed her.

    But nothing is impossible; I didn't see Alissa skating a 6 triple program ever again either.
     
  8. sbmeagain

    sbmeagain Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2005
    Messages:
    169
    If Allisa can do it, she can too! I wouldn't count her out yet.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2011
  9. MikiAndoFan#1

    MikiAndoFan#1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    Messages:
    14,083
    I agree! I think Ashley's result at nationals will only make her work harder and she'll come back strong next season! :cheer2:
     
  10. poths

    poths Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2003
    Messages:
    18,067
    Skate for Germany for heaven's sake. She could medal at Euro's get a reputation and German fed have :bribe: power - See 2004 with Lindenmann and Winkler and Lohse both medalling at Worlds.
     
  11. Kwantumleap

    Kwantumleap Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    3,942
    Her program last night was a step back in terms of choreography. I guess I never noticed her lack of transitions, as well :blah:

    That's true. She's been surpassed and will need mistakes/growth spurt issues from them in order to be in the top 2 again. I think the US ladies will have 3 spots for the world team if not next year, the year after at latest. That should help Ashley.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2011
  12. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Messages:
    8,027
    I'm a huge Ashley fan but now even I doubt it, mostly for reasons outside of her control, namely so many great up-and-coming gals in their mid-teens. If she has the stamina and parental deep pockets to pull an Alissa and stay for 4-5 years, who knows?
     
  13. topaz

    topaz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    9,052
    I think she can but I think it depends on her body. Her recent health issues may prevent this.
     
  14. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,671
    Rachael will not be there next year, and Agnes/Christina do not have the maturity or refinement that Ashley has so her chances to medal again are good. I'm sorry though, I don't think our chances for 3 slots at worlds are very good with Rachael on the team. They should have picked Mirai for the 2nd slot. Maybe if Alissa retires in a year and Ashley has an "awakening" she has a chance. But I view Ashley's passion as rather hollow, similar to Sasha's, whereas Alissa's passion is understated but legit. That kind of attitude always seems to win out when it counts. As far as Ashley's conditioning, she appeared to be in great shape and hasn't succumbed to "growth" like many skaters.
     
  15. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2007
    Messages:
    838
    I love Ashley, so I hope she stays in. i think she does have true passion for skating. IF Alissa retires (which I expect) perhaps Ashley could go to the skate whisperers Jason and Yuka?
     
  16. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,128
    I think she still has a chance. She had the flu at nationals this year, and it looked like she was mouth breathing in the long program, a sign she was still maybe suffering from it by then. She also lost out on that olympic spot last year because she didn't do a good SP, even though the long program was kind of the skate of her life. She needs to be healthy and do a good short program if she wants to have a chance, but I think if she does that, she is still in the mix. Rachael and Alissa may not even stay all the way until 2014. Rachael might decide to stop skating to go to school and people didn't think Alissa would stay even this long.
     
  17. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,848
    I hope so. I like Ashley and have not yet given up hope that she will conquer her SP demons and correct her bad jump habits.
     
  18. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    10,599
    I think so. Also Gao is not a headcase, whereas Agnes is still a question mark. But they both are more solid in the jump department than Ashley and the PCS will come in time. Christina has been struggling a little this year due to a 3-4 inch growthspurt, but is still holding her own out there and hasn't lost any of her jumps. I assume next season she will only get better, same for Agnes who seems to have finally overcome the senior debut nerves. And it's not just those two she has to worry about, Yasmin and Vanessa are threats too. I don't know if either girls' jump technique will survive puberty, but for now, they are looking good for the future. Add in Hicks, Dinh, and Kulgeyko to the mix and things are not looking very good for Ashley.

    That being said I do think there's a chance for her, the window is just very narrow. So let's say Rachael and Alissa both compete next season but then retire afterwards, in 2013 it would mean that likely Mirai, Agnes and Christina would be the frontrunners going into nationals, and if Ashley is still going strong, she at least have a shot at winning or coming in 2nd, presuming the younger ladies aren't quite soup yet. I don't know though.
     
  19. Allen

    Allen Glad to be back!

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2003
    Messages:
    13,088
    I hope so, but I'm not counting on it. I feel like she gets lowballed a little on PCS and I'm not sure what's going to have to do to change that because her short program had more choreography and transitions than anyone else.

    I think Hicks is going to make a splash in seniors pretty soon and when you add her to the likes of Nagasu, Lam, Gao, and Zawadski, it doesn't look great for Ashley. I don't know where she is in regards to the puberty monster, but if she's past it, I think she's going to start kicking ass and taking names pretty soon.
     
  20. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Messages:
    7,089
    Yes, she's still technically a teenager [19], so age-wise she still has time.

    I really like some of the things that Priscilla Hill has done for her, but I think she needs a coach right now that would 'rein her in' a little more mentally, then change program tactics, strip out some extraneous movements in her programs and concentrate on better quality out of her actual jumps.

    Transitions are wonderful and I'm glad Ashley is ambitious with them, but they need to be more seamlessly integrated into the program. Maybe Ashley can't quite handle all of that.

    I DON'T want Ashley to leave the sport! She has a lot to offer and can get there - she has the whole array of jumps, decent speed, decent spiral, decent spinner. Most of all she doesn't have the 'fear' that plagues the skating of someone like Mirai and Alissa (until recently). She attacks! I love it and count her as one of my faves
     
  21. Chris_E

    Chris_E Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2002
    Messages:
    482
    I agree with all who said is Alissa can do it why can't Ashley? She had a rough competition and overall season with the flu at nationals and missing training time due to her other health issues this result isn't a surprise. I hope that she continues next season and with hard work she can still be in the thick of things next year.
     
  22. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    11,480
    I love Ashley but IMO she needs a coaching change to someone who can fix her technical issues (Arutunian? Callaghan?), and a new choreographer who can bring out her strengths more.
     
  23. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    7,139
    Wait, since she finished 6th at Nationals...will she have to skate at sectionals to qualify?

    And yes, I agree a coaching change is in order if she wants to improve. It seems that Hill and Ashley have a great relationship, but it doesn't seem to be improving her skating whatsoever.
     
  24. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,848
    That will probably depend on her international assignments. She could get a bye to 2012 Nat's.
     
  25. DickButtonFan

    DickButtonFan New Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,261
    Nats was pretty disappointing with the exception of Alissa. I think Ashley along with every US skater should work really hard on their edges, there is not much flow to most these ladies skating. They also need to work on their transitions and check out better on their landings.
     
  26. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,784
    I WANT to see Ashley do well. I think it's possible.
     
  27. SkateSkates

    SkateSkates Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2010
    Messages:
    114
    Mirai was 5th in 2009, and then came back strong last year to finish second. Alissa was 10th last year, and blew the field away this year. With Flatt off to school next year, I think Ashley has a chance to break through and make it. She actually has all of the qualities, except she can't seem to skate a good SP when it counts. She needs to gain a new perspective on the SP and take some pressure off herself.
     
  28. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,901
    Ashley has basic skating issues: flutzing, and a tendency to two-foot and/or UR her jump landings. Unless and until she addresses these issues, she is not going to succeed at the level she so much wants.
     
  29. ninadel

    ninadel New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Messages:
    474
    Agree! I love that Ashley attacks, but still is able to skate pretty. She has a great fighting spirit and it's enjoyable to watch.

    I don't think she can afford to just wait for the skaters ahead of her to retire though, because the youngsters are only only going to get better. She needs to improve her jumps and stop the two-footing... you'd think she's confident enough to stop doing that.

    I don't know why she bombs SPs... seems she wants it so desperately she psyches herself out. Maybe she needs lessons from Alissa on finding her calm centred place.

    Also I'd imagine the spasms have kept her from focusing on improvements this year. Now that this seems to be sorted out perhaps next year she'll be a lot better.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2011
  30. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3,980
    Yeah just imagine in only 2 years how much better Agnes and Gao should be. Throw in Lam, Siraj and Hicks and Ashley might become lost in the shuffle.