Will Russia bounce back to win at least 1 gold medal at the Sochi 2014 Olympics?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Maofan7, Aug 13, 2011.

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Will Russia bounce back to win at least 1 Gold Medal at the Sochi 2014 Olympics?

Poll closed Sep 13, 2011.
  1. Yes

    125 vote(s)
    82.2%
  2. No

    7 vote(s)
    4.6%
  3. Don't Know/Too early to tell?

    20 vote(s)
    13.2%
  1. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    That was my feeling about Plushy going into Vancouver. I was amazed that he skated as well as he did, and nearly won. It would be too much to ask for that lightning to strike twice.
  2. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    I'm kind of hoping that Plushenko can bring back the triple axel half loop triple flip. It's worth the same as a quad toe triple toe, but it's just so much cooler.
  3. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    I'd love to see him do it again too - that was amazing, that combination. I'd also like to see him do an Ina Bauer into 3A (Kulik-style) but that's mostly because I've never seen Plushy do an Ina Bauer.

    I hope he goes full-out with the 4T-3T-3Lo and I'll be interested to see if he keeps working on the 3A-4T combination. I definitely think he's more than capable of beating everyone else in the field...if his body holds out.
  4. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Kulik was doing spread eagles (not Ina Bauer) into triple axel, as eligible.

    I too loved the 3A-0.5loop-3f combination. I don't think he can do the 4t-3t-3R combination now, but if he does the 4-3-2 even that will be amazing.
  5. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    The caliber of the mens event come 2014 will be much higher than 2010. One just has to compare the level Lysacek was skating at and able to win big events to the level Chan is skating at now to see the enormous difference.
  6. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    Agreed but then again Takahashi and Joubert in 2007 were skating at a much higher level than Lysacek in 2010. Even Buttle's quadless performance from 2008 would beat Lysacek because of the transitions, IMO. The level could drop back down again as it did leading up to 2010, for whatever reason. Still doesn't mean Plush medals, obviously.
  7. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    True, it was sad how mens skating went backwards so much leading into Vancouver. It is also probably a large part of the reason Plushenko returned at all, since he was already well below his former best due to his knee surgeries in Vancouver.

    Seeing Evan go on to win a surprise World and Olympic gold also makes me sad Jeff didnt continue. Then again Jeff was inconsistent so who knows if he would put it together to win or not, but a clean Jeff would always crush a clean Evan if both were quadless.
  8. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    But the flip looked force, because Plush was basically taking off from a standstill after the half loop. I would've given it 0 or -GOE if it was done under IJS. A jump sequence must have good flow in and out of its multipe connecting jumps. An excellent jump sequence was Ito and Browning's 2A-.5L-3S. A really bad example was Maria's 3T-.5L-3S.
  9. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    You are comparing 2A-0.5L-3S sequence with a 3A-0.5L-3f?

    Midori was a great jumper, but that sequence was not all that difficult. How many men have even attempted the 3A-0.5L-3f?
  10. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I have to disagree with this. Other than Chan, I don't see a man skating at a really high level right now. We don't know if Kozuka will develop, if Takahashi will be around (and still skating well), if Oda will ever learn to follow the COP rules. By the time 2014 rolls around, we may see a strong field but right now I don't.

    Evan won the 2009 worlds because Joubert made a tactical error during his LP. IMO both Joubert and Takahashi were contenders for the OGM, at least on paper. Also Abbott was skating very well. I think Plushy came back because he missed competing, and also because he believed that he could beat these guys. He almost did, but partly because Joubert had his Olympic meltdown, Takahashi fell on the quad while Lysacek wisely eliminated the quad from his programs, and IMO Oda was never as strong artistically as these skaters. Abbott skated poorly too, but on paper the field was pretty strong.
  11. FarFarAway

    FarFarAway Choice is an illusion

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    Completely agree. But, I think we can't even be very much sure about Chan at the moment - there are 2.5 seasons before the Olympics.

    I don't think this was the primary reason for his return in 09-10 season.
  12. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Chan already is enough to make the sufficient difference on his own. To put it bluntly neither Lysacek and Plushenko have a hope in hell to compete with Chan at his current level, and I dont even like Chan (and actually do like Plushenko). Chan skating as he did now would have won the Olympics in Vancouver by about 40 points.

    No we dont how he will develop, but we do know he already posted a 180 LP at Worlds, much higher than the career PB of either Plushenko or Lysacek, both whom never even reached a 170 and didnt in Vancouver either. In just one year the scoring isnt that advanced, in fact in the ladies, pairs, and for most of the men the scores were much lower than last year. I would my money on Kozuka over an aging champion returning anyday at this point, although I think he has a long way to go to challenge Chan.

    I dont think he will either. He falls into the same group as Plushenko and Lysacek, old veterans with lots of wear on their bodies who will be swept away as non contenders by 2014 if he is even skating. He wasnt even much a contender this season.

    I dont see him as being a big factor in the coming years either. It will be Chan, Kozuka, and some of the current younger skaters who still have alot of improvement until 2014.

    It is already strong enough Evan or Evgeny at their Vancouver level definitely could not win. That is the point. It will only get stronger from here.

    Joubert was past his prime by that point. 2009 Worlds was high last real shot of a big title. I never saw him as a threat for the 2010 OGM. At Worlds soon after the Games he had a pretty good competition and won the bronze in a field with 4 of the top 6 out, well behind a quadless/3 major error Chan. Takahashi was out with injury in 2009, and fighting to come back from it along with the major consistency issues he had his whole career in 2010. Abbott is a huge headcase who has never proven anything in major events.
  13. Zokko!

    Zokko! Comansnala?

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    Of course! Two, Ice Dance and Pairs for sure! :cheer2:
  14. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    Oh? :confused: Oops. I could have sworn he did the Ina Bauer. Oh well. Not my fault Ilia did so many fantastic jumps ;)
  15. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Falling on a 2A is tactical error?
  16. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I was referring to the jump he skipped toward the end, thinking he had done enough to win. That was a tactical error.
  17. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    I know he did that in 2008 with Buttle, doing a 2A+1t instead of.... anything else. Which jump did he skip in 2009?
  18. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if you are just talking about skating, but overall I would say yes. Their government is putting a lot of money and effort behind their athletes. That is half the battle for amateur sports. They fired the sports minister after Vancouver, so I think they will leave no stone unturned.

    Given all of the economic turmoil in the U.S, the fact that the olympics are not being held in the U.S., and that winter olympic sports are not that popular with the public, I don't think there will be much government support here.
  19. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Hope V-T will win competition in pair skating.
    Cant see how some os russin teams could compete against D-W and Shibs. But i think they have very good chance to take bronz medal. (after two teams from USA).
    But we have long way to go. Maybe Sotnikova or Tuktamisheva will show there best at home OG?
  20. FarFarAway

    FarFarAway Choice is an illusion

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    That is all very disputable. Despite all seemingly hard efforts the competition results in most of the winter sports still leave much to be desired. The situation with the figure skating improved, yes, but I guess, this is not only due to the reason of financing. If you take the biathlon results of the last season, you will see that almost nothing has changed.
  21. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Well-Known Member

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    With Shibus, you have to remember a year before they won bronze at world they were out of medal at world juniors. Things change very quickly in ice dance, it is also possible non of the name you mentioned would medal.
  22. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Gachinski has a grungy, youthful, Russian flair, but still he's very stiff and unpolished (rough around the edges). Perhaps his youth and Russian jump technique will aid his body in holding up under the grueling quad training practice. Gachinsky's music in the lp at Worlds really helped his performance. As far as "new" jumps being added to the sport, IMO, the only "new" or "historic" aspect is the extra revolution added to jumps that were invented circa late nineteenth, early twentieth-century. The lauded, taxing and difficult extra revolutions don't ring my bell, but c'est la vie in figure skating.

    What would excite me tremendously is seeing Jason Brown master his triple axel, and eventually add the over-rated but necessary quad to his repertoire. Ding-a-ling -- a-ling!!! Same goes for seeing Dornbush continue to improve in all aspects. Not to mention seeing Adam and Jeremy triumph. Quads to me are not exciting (especially when landed like a ton of bricks) ... it's the whole of a program that matters, regardless of the judges' scoring.
  23. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I have to disagree. If a Quad is "just an extra revolution", same should be said of the triples (extra revolution added to a double) and of a double (extra revolution to a single jump). I find it exciting when athletes push themselves to test their limits. If a quad was that easy, a lot more skaters would be doing it. After the retirements of Yagudin and Plushenko no skater took the challenge of landing the quad seriously. If you find it exciting to watch a skater that cannot even land a 3 axel- something that was not only routine but a almost a requirement (not by rules) to be on the podium, you must be watching a different sport (or a non-sport) from me.
  24. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    The same is true of double and trip jumps, Vash01. They are just extra revolutions added to jumps that were invented and performed first as single jumps about a century ago.

    You miss my point re Jason Brown. His overall skating skills are so outstanding that it will indeed be exciting to me to see him master and land a well-executed triple axel -- definitely a routine requirement for the sport. Obviously, he must master the 3axel, and indeed add a quad to his repertoire in order to become a strong contender on the National and World scene. Absolutely I agree the quad is extremely challenging and complicated to master, but to me pointless if not performed well within the whole of a well put together program.

    If you don't find Brown's 2011 U.S. Nats lp exciting to watch ... oh well. To each his own excitement.

    You might be interested in this GSD discussion:

    http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=79854&page=19


    And in this article about quad and triple jumps in figure skating:

    http://iceskatingresources.org/Triple&QuadJumps.html
  25. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I don't go to GSD anymore. Their opinions are extremely biased in favor of NA skaters. I prefer the international crowd here. I get to hear different view points from different cultures.

    If you don't like more revolutions to jumps, you should just watch ice dance. Why even bother calling this a sport? There were many skaters that had other skills but they could not land the jumps consistently, that's why they never made it at the world level. IMO that's the way it should be for a SPORT.
  26. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Figure skating is both Art and Sport, and it will always be, just as there will always be debate and differences of opinion regarding all aspects of its challenging and engaging past and present moments. I watch all the events of figure skating competitions, and I love reading about this art/sport, sharing my opinions and gaining new perspectives.

    There are different reasons why the quad remains a challenging jump for many. TBTB in figure skating are only beginning to realize how important it is to understand more about the physics, exercises, technology aids and training strategies necessary to mastering quads consistently without destroying skaters' bodies and careers.

    A delayed single axel jump, a gorgeous spread eagle, or even the simplest of moves in skating can be just as, or even more breathtaking than the most beautifully landed quad jump, if performed well in a wonderfully choreographed program. Why? One reason is perhaps because the eye often can barely distinguish the fourth revolution of a quad jump -- it necessarily happens so fast. No jump is thrilling to me unless it is well-executed within the whole of a well-conceived program. I don't like watching poorly performed jumps or programs, and it has been frustrating to witness over the years such misunderstanding about how to develop quads safely. The lack of understanding has adversely impacted figure skating. This art/sport is much more complicated than the simple beauty of watching a well-executed move would attest.
  27. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    I confused GSD with Goldenskate forums too! LOL.
  28. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I find your post very condescending. I have never said that other moves are not important or are not beautiful. I won't write a thesis on this, but I could give a long list of moves I like. I have posted thousands of times about FS and I am not going to repeat myself. The reason I like FS is that it is an art and a sport. However, you are trying to take the sport aspect out of it, and being condescending by talking as if I know nothing about FS. Your whole post is meant to put me or whoever thinks differntly from you down. I have been watching FS since the late 1980's and taking FS lessons since the early 90's. Instead of saying it's just a different opinion, you want to act superior and assume that I am an idiot. I am very angry about this.:mad:
  29. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    My posts are not intended to condescend. Sorry you are taking them in that light. Nowhere did I say I don't like "more revolutions to jumps," and I didn't take issue with you for making that assumption. Nowhere did I say that you said "other moves are not important or are not beautiful."

    Unfortunately, since we are not having a face-to-face discussion, my written words and way of phrasing my opinions seem to be making you think I'm putting you down. Your feelings, thoughts and perceptions are yours and are valid, just as mine are. I've enjoyed reading many of your posts, and often agree, and sometimes disagree. It is your choice how you decide to respond to my strong opinions regarding the quad in figure skating. My opinions have nothing to do with you personally. I'm sorry you are choosing anger, perhaps because you misinterpret my intentions and tone.