Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by poirierpaul, Apr 4, 2014.
i think julia will be the one dominating this quad
I would say Sotnikova.
If she never competes again, she will still have the ladies' biggest prize (controversial or not) and be a national hero. Kind of a Russian Sarah Hughes.
If Sotnikova competes again, she has a legitimate shot to win more titles - a World title would quiet a lot of critics and potentially bring her more international acclaim. She has yooge jumps and good spins, better packaging would also help her case tremendously. She also seems to have more backing from the Russian fed than her compatriots do; even though she was not entrusted with a spot during the Olympic team competition, that seemed to be more of an issue of the fed wanting to hedge bets on the dance teams than a specific desire to leave Adelina off the team.
Right now, Lipnitskaia has captured more international hearts (typical remark from my friends: "that Russian girl won but I like that other little Russian girl much better") but puberty is still a question mark, and even if she can weather that, who knows if she will hold off all those Russian youngsters for four long years.
Sarah Hughes is no hero in the U.S. She was forgotten a good 10 years ago. So if that is your parallel it is not a good one to make a case for Sotnikova.
We'll, I was comparing her to Sarah Hughes in the sense that outside of the OGM their resumes are a little thin compared to most OGMs. But I do think Sarah is better remembered in the US than most FSUers give her credit for though, the footage of her win is always in the highlights when the Winter Games roll around (much to my chagrin). She'd be even better remembered if her dad hadn't screwed up her post-win opportunities.
Sasha Cohen IMO is more remembered, more popular, and more revered in the U.S than Hughes is and Cohen never even won a world title. The Sotnikova vs Lipnitskaya comparision is probably closest to Cohen vs Hughes, except unlike Cohen Julia has an Olympic gold too. In fact that Julia has an Olympic gold, just like her teammate, and one that isnt tainted by a huge controvers and asterisk next to it, puts her career way above Sotnikova. Even her Olympic gold is a better gold, plus everything else on her resume.
You are entitled to your opinion, as I am entitled to mine. Look, I prefer Julia's skating but I think Adelina has the advantage at the moment.
Agree.That's why I voted for Juila. Altho you never know what the future will bring for either skater, with growth spurts etc.
The problem with winning the highest prize (OGM) too soon is that nothing that follows it can match that, unless it's a second OGM 4 years later. From that perspective it is better to be in Julia's position than Adelina's. However, Julia may never win the OGM, and would never be considered at the same level at Adelina. The flip side is that she has a chance to establish herself as one of the top skaters, rack up a lot of titles, and be considered a great skater like Irina or Michelle. I am not giving up on Julia. It's just that she will have even tougher competition to deal with in Russia, and the Olympics are 4 years away, so anything can happen.
Sotnikova won the Russian nationals at the senior level when she was 12 years old. Five years time frame does make a career in figure skating.She is 17 now. She is a 4-time Russian national champion, Olympic champion, and a European silver medallist (did I leave out anything?)
I guess it's a difference in semantics or how we view the idea of a career in skating. For me, five years does not equate a career. I consider them both to be works in progress. I'd like to see what developments they make in their skating before I call what they have accomplished thus far to be a career.
To me, someone like Carolina, Mao, or Yuna who began on the heels of a different era and went through ups and downs had true developments in their styles and have given their fans many memories can call it a career. Between the Lipnitskaya and Sotnikova, I prefer to watch Julia, but neither one of them is soup just yet.
I too prefer Julia- by a lot- but you can't just ignore Adelina's accomplishments at a young age. It is rare in FS to see skaters that skate for as many years as Michelle, Irina. Carolina was skating for many years before she actually developed. Her meaningful career was probably around 5 years. She would have had a much shorter career if she had won major competitions when she was 18. Usually 5-6 years at the senior level is not uncommon for figure skaters. Boitano skated eligible from roughly 83 to 88, and he had a pretty good career even upto that point. G&G skated at the senior level from 85 to 90 before Sergei was burned out. They were lucky that pros were allowed in 94.
That is why the longevity of some skaters is something extraordinary. It does not mean those with shorter careers did not have a career at all. Even Tara Lipinski and Sarah Hughes had careers, just short ones.
The question is - whose career "at this point". Although they both are WIP, they have had a part of their career up till now, and a pretty successful one.
This is a no brainer - any sports fan knows it is better to be the Olympic champion than the Silver medalist from an annual event like the WC.
On the other hand, there are some really strange "sports fans" at FSU, some/many/majority who consider the dress and makeup to be the most important criteria for a Lady skater
Sorry to bring more bad news to the ridiculous diehard USA fans but Adelina is getting prettier and skating better all the time
Next comments should go to a new Wagner/Gold "bright lights, we are exhausted excuse thread".
Such a thread for certain skaters could last for a good decade.
I like both of them. Adelina's jumps are impressive. Huge! But I love Julia's consistency. I like being able to relax when watching a skater, and I hate watching my favourite skater having meltdown frequently. (I can forgive one off, but not several times per season). So this was the only reason for voting for Julia, but I have to honestly admit that Adelina's career has been very impressive and possibly still may be.
^ I get what you are saying and I guess I am the opposite. Skaters like Sasha, Alissa and Mirai have always been favorites of mine - maybe because besides being beautiful skaters they kept me on the edge of my seat.
Adelina's "meltdowns" never amounted to much more than a missed flip or a silly mistake. I like that under the greatest pressure Adelina skated her best.
To me she showed a champion's heart with nerves of steel. I expect more great skates from Adelina in the next few seasons.
Julia is a wonderful skater too but I still believe if they both are clean Adelina wins. Maybe that will change as Julia matures.
Both are terrific girls and time will tell how their careers turn out.
I voted Sotnikova but I can understand the votes for Lipnitskaya. Lipnitskaya has a more complete career, and technically has an Olympic gold too. Plus if I had all the criticsm and thrashing of my biggest achievment (which I dont agree with) Sotnikova has it would be damaging to me emotionaly, but maybe she is stronger than I am. Still if I won an Olympic gold and only 5% of people thought I deserved it, and atleast 80% though it was completely bogus and totally the result of corruption and a possible fixed outcome, I am not sure how I would cope with that feeling.
Sotnikova easily. Julia has achieved nothing in the sport yet other than her world silver. Post Olympic world medals should count for less though, not the same as any of the other 3 year worlds between Olympic years.
I voted for sotnikova. She isnt that good and her olympic gold is a farce and wont even be recognized by people in the years to come, but Lipnitskaya is a talentless horse.
^Saying stuff like that greatly devalues your opinion in future discussions...just so you know. I'm not even a big Julia fan but that's just ridiculous.
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