Whose career would you rather have at this point- Sotnikova or Lipnitskaya

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by poirierpaul, Apr 4, 2014.

Whose career would you rather have- Sotnikova or Lipnitskaya

  1. Sotnikova

    37 vote(s)
    30.3%
  2. Lipnitskaya

    85 vote(s)
    69.7%
  1. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    12,024
    1,370
    113
    But such a large number of gold medalists retire, it is very difficult to say what they might have done if they didn't retire. Gold medalists have a lot to do for the months that follow when they get home, and continuing to train would lose a lot of opportunities for them.

    Lysacek (who didn't intend to retire at least) and Plushenko both skipped Worlds after a Gold medal, if I have my competitions straight. So Hughes would not be the only one to do so.
     
  2. KimGOAT

    KimGOAT Active Member

    759
    45
    28
    Lysacek was definitely initially retired. He did have some half hearted "comeback" plans (which i never thought were serious or expected to come to pass but I know some will disagree with me), but that doesnt mean he wasnt retired for awhile. If you mean some skaters who win OGM take a break and come back I agree, but those skaters dont just skip worlds and come right back next season. They take worlds, plus atleast (usually much more) another whole season off.

    Yeah alot do retire, but alot stay in, and all those who stay in go to worlds (except possibly Sotnikova). Lets look at all those who either kept going or hadnt decided yet:

    1984 Witt- went to worlds
    1984 Hamilton- went to worlds, despite knowing it was his final one.
    1984 Valova & Vasiliev- went to worlds despite the huge risk of facing Underhill in Ottawa
    1984 Torvill & Dean- went to worlds, and it was their last one ever.
    1988 Witt- went to worlds, despite knowing she was retiring.
    1988 Boitano- went to worlds, and they were his last.
    1988 Bestemianova & Bukin- went to worlds, knowing it was the end.
    1988 Gordeeva & Grinkov- went to worlds, and continued competing.
    1992 Yamaguchi- wasnt sure if she was continuing, went to worlds which turned out to be last.
    1992 Petrenko- went to worlds, knowing they would probably be his last.
    1992 Miskutienok & Dmitriev- went to worlds, knowing they would probably be their last
    1992 Klimova & Ponomarenko- went to worlds, knowing it was the end.
    1994 Gordeeva & Grinkov- didnt go to worlds, came back only for Olympics all along.
    1994 Baiul- knew she was retiring so didnt go to worlds.
    1994 Urmanov- went to worlds and continued competing another 5 years.
    1994 Gritschuk & Platov- went to worlds and continued competing another 4 years
    1998 Kulik- knew he was retiring so didnt go to worlds.
    1998 Kazhakova & Dmitriev- knew they were retiring but went to worlds anyway, but had to WD with stomach flu.
    1998 Gritschuk & Platov- knew they were splitting up so didnt go to worlds.
    1998 Lipinski- retired before worlds even began.
    2002 pairs- both teams knew they were retiring, didnt go to worlds.
    2002 Yagudin- didnt know if he was staying in, but went to worlds.
    2002 Hughes- mentioned already.
    2002 Anissina & Peizerat- knew they were retiring so didnt go to worlds.
    2006 Totmianina & Marinin- knew long before Games that was their final event.
    2006 Navka & Kostomarov- ditto above.
    2006 Plushenko- was planning on retiring or taking very long break. Was still planning to go worlds but missed with knee injury.
    2006 Arakawa- knew Olympics were final event.
    2010 Virtue & Moir- knew they were continuing so knew they were always going to worlds.
    2010 Shen & Zhao- came back only for Olympics and Olympic Gold.
    2010 Lysacek- was planning on retiring or taking long break. Supposably began comeback plans in winter 2012, but never competed again.
    2010 Kim- didnt even think she was continuing, but still went to presumably final worlds. As it turns out did compete some more in later years.
    2014 Hanyu- knew he was continuing and always knew he would go to worlds.
    2014 Davis & White- are retiring, but still were planning on final worlds until DWTS phoned.
    2014 Volosozhar & Trankov- were planning on going to worlds, but with his injury had to miss.

    So as you can see a large number- Witt (first time), G&G (first time), Yamaguchi (although plans changed), Urmanov, G&P (first time), Yagudin, V&M, are all skaters who planned to keep going and still went to worlds. All except Hughes if she even counts, and Sotnikova if she even continues. Then even of the huge number of who were expecting to not continue, so would have every reason to bypass worlds, most of them also went to worlds anyway. So Sotnikova if she is planning to continue, is most unusual indeed.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2014
  3. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

    26,863
    4,042
    113
    If that is your criterion, V&T and D&W should have second thoughts about their gold medals, right?
     
  4. crisp

    crisp New Member

    23
    0
    0
    I have ever read at FSU that Adelina's skipping WC was Russia federation's decision and Adelina herself wanted to go to WC.
    So those who have second thoughts about her win seem to be RSF, not (team) Adelina. :lol:
     
  5. kwanlysacek

    kwanlysacek Member

    50
    6
    8
    If so that was a mistake on the RSF part. They denied Adelina the chance to continue her momentum from Sochi, a great showing at worlds would have erased some of the raging controversy from Sochi, and inadvertently cast more doubt towards her at the same time.
     
  6. rickmercer

    rickmercer Active Member

    118
    30
    28
    Sotnikova by far. Olympic gold >>>>>>>>>>>>> world silver, grand prix final silver, European gold. Sotnikova is the Olympic champion people, get over it, since it doesnt mean shit all what you think of it. I thought she should have been bronze behind Kim and Kostner but that doesnt mean anything, fact is she is gold whether you like it or not. Olympic team medal is worthless and means nothing for anyone.
     
  7. staceyliving

    staceyliving New Member

    22
    0
    1
    How does Lipnitskaya have any votes let alone winning this poll. Are you freaking insane people.
     
  8. HVS

    HVS Active Member

    204
    29
    28
    Simple. Because people rather have a less achieved career of Yulia than a more achieved from Adelina but bonus legion of antifans in everywhere :D
     
  9. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    13,704
    787
    113
    If you pick Sotnikova it is only due the Olympic singles gold. Julia's career trumps her in every other way, so I guess it again comes down to the Olympic gold value discussed with Lysacek, Kim and others. This case is even more unique though as Lipnitskaya also has an Olympic gold, even if the probably less prestigous team one, and regardless your personal views unfortunately there is a stain on Sotnikova's gold from all the controversy. All that said I would pick Julia at this moment.
     
  10. elif

    elif Active Member

    530
    240
    43
    I love Julia but I voted Sotnikova. She skated very very good at olympics, in front of home crowd and deserved a olympic medal. If she only won a olympic silver or bronze I could have voted her. Of course world medals are important but considering how Kostner is happy with a olympic bronze, how Shen/Zhao come back for another olympic medal or how important for athletes to be in olympics, I can't help but thinks olympic medal of Sotnikova is more precious.:)
     
  11. nicolas23

    nicolas23 Member

    88
    15
    8
    i think julia will be the one dominating this quad
     
  12. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

    4,982
    967
    113
    I would say Sotnikova.

    If she never competes again, she will still have the ladies' biggest prize (controversial or not) and be a national hero. Kind of a Russian Sarah Hughes.

    If Sotnikova competes again, she has a legitimate shot to win more titles - a World title would quiet a lot of critics and potentially bring her more international acclaim. She has yooge jumps and good spins, better packaging would also help her case tremendously. She also seems to have more backing from the Russian fed than her compatriots do; even though she was not entrusted with a spot during the Olympic team competition, that seemed to be more of an issue of the fed wanting to hedge bets on the dance teams than a specific desire to leave Adelina off the team.

    Right now, Lipnitskaia has captured more international hearts (typical remark from my friends: "that Russian girl won but I like that other little Russian girl much better") but puberty is still a question mark, and even if she can weather that, who knows if she will hold off all those Russian youngsters for four long years.
     
  13. usova94gold

    usova94gold Member

    109
    1
    18
    Sarah Hughes is no hero in the U.S. She was forgotten a good 10 years ago. So if that is your parallel it is not a good one to make a case for Sotnikova.
     
  14. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

    4,982
    967
    113
    We'll, I was comparing her to Sarah Hughes in the sense that outside of the OGM their resumes are a little thin compared to most OGMs. But I do think Sarah is better remembered in the US than most FSUers give her credit for though, the footage of her win is always in the highlights when the Winter Games roll around (much to my chagrin). She'd be even better remembered if her dad hadn't screwed up her post-win opportunities.
     
  15. usova94gold

    usova94gold Member

    109
    1
    18
    Sasha Cohen IMO is more remembered, more popular, and more revered in the U.S than Hughes is and Cohen never even won a world title. The Sotnikova vs Lipnitskaya comparision is probably closest to Cohen vs Hughes, except unlike Cohen Julia has an Olympic gold too. In fact that Julia has an Olympic gold, just like her teammate, and one that isnt tainted by a huge controvers and asterisk next to it, puts her career way above Sotnikova. Even her Olympic gold is a better gold, plus everything else on her resume.
     
  16. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

    4,982
    967
    113
    You are entitled to your opinion, as I am entitled to mine. Look, I prefer Julia's skating but I think Adelina has the advantage at the moment.
     
  17. DreamSkates

    DreamSkates Active Member

    852
    92
    28
    Agree.That's why I voted for Juila. Altho you never know what the future will bring for either skater, with growth spurts etc.
     
  18. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

    26,863
    4,042
    113
    The problem with winning the highest prize (OGM) too soon is that nothing that follows it can match that, unless it's a second OGM 4 years later. From that perspective it is better to be in Julia's position than Adelina's. However, Julia may never win the OGM, and would never be considered at the same level at Adelina. The flip side is that she has a chance to establish herself as one of the top skaters, rack up a lot of titles, and be considered a great skater like Irina or Michelle. I am not giving up on Julia. It's just that she will have even tougher competition to deal with in Russia, and the Olympics are 4 years away, so anything can happen.
     
  19. escaflowne9282

    escaflowne9282 Well-Known Member

    2,941
    580
    113
    Career?
     
  20. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

    26,863
    4,042
    113
    Sotnikova won the Russian nationals at the senior level when she was 12 years old. Five years time frame does make a career in figure skating.She is 17 now. She is a 4-time Russian national champion, Olympic champion, and a European silver medallist (did I leave out anything?)
     
  21. escaflowne9282

    escaflowne9282 Well-Known Member

    2,941
    580
    113
    I guess it's a difference in semantics or how we view the idea of a career in skating. For me, five years does not equate a career. I consider them both to be works in progress. I'd like to see what developments they make in their skating before I call what they have accomplished thus far to be a career.
    To me, someone like Carolina, Mao, or Yuna who began on the heels of a different era and went through ups and downs had true developments in their styles and have given their fans many memories can call it a career. Between the Lipnitskaya and Sotnikova, I prefer to watch Julia, but neither one of them is soup just yet.
     
  22. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

    26,863
    4,042
    113
    I too prefer Julia- by a lot- but you can't just ignore Adelina's accomplishments at a young age. It is rare in FS to see skaters that skate for as many years as Michelle, Irina. Carolina was skating for many years before she actually developed. Her meaningful career was probably around 5 years. She would have had a much shorter career if she had won major competitions when she was 18. Usually 5-6 years at the senior level is not uncommon for figure skaters. Boitano skated eligible from roughly 83 to 88, and he had a pretty good career even upto that point. G&G skated at the senior level from 85 to 90 before Sergei was burned out. They were lucky that pros were allowed in 94.

    That is why the longevity of some skaters is something extraordinary. It does not mean those with shorter careers did not have a career at all. Even Tara Lipinski and Sarah Hughes had careers, just short ones.

    The question is - whose career "at this point". Although they both are WIP, they have had a part of their career up till now, and a pretty successful one.
     
  23. MrLucky

    MrLucky New Member

    639
    47
    0
    This is a no brainer - any sports fan knows it is better to be the Olympic champion than the Silver medalist from an annual event like the WC.

    On the other hand, there are some really strange "sports fans" at FSU, some/many/majority who consider the dress and makeup to be the most important criteria for a Lady skater :eek:

    Sorry to bring more bad news to the ridiculous diehard USA fans but Adelina is getting prettier and skating better all the time :cool:

    Next comments should go to a new Wagner/Gold "bright lights, we are exhausted excuse thread".
    Such a thread for certain skaters could last for a good decade.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
  24. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

    3,357
    822
    113
    I like both of them. Adelina's jumps are impressive. Huge! But I love Julia's consistency. I like being able to relax when watching a skater, and I hate watching my favourite skater having meltdown frequently. (I can forgive one off, but not several times per season). So this was the only reason for voting for Julia, but I have to honestly admit that Adelina's career has been very impressive and possibly still may be.
     
  25. MrLucky

    MrLucky New Member

    639
    47
    0
    ^ I get what you are saying and I guess I am the opposite. Skaters like Sasha, Alissa and Mirai have always been favorites of mine - maybe because besides being beautiful skaters they kept me on the edge of my seat. :)

    Adelina's "meltdowns" never amounted to much more than a missed flip or a silly mistake. I like that under the greatest pressure Adelina skated her best. :kickass:
    To me she showed a champion's heart with nerves of steel. I expect more great skates from Adelina in the next few seasons.

    Julia is a wonderful skater too but I still believe if they both are clean Adelina wins. Maybe that will change as Julia matures.
    Both are terrific girls and time will tell how their careers turn out.
     
  26. annabrown

    annabrown Member

    45
    2
    8
    I voted Sotnikova but I can understand the votes for Lipnitskaya. Lipnitskaya has a more complete career, and technically has an Olympic gold too. Plus if I had all the criticsm and thrashing of my biggest achievment (which I dont agree with) Sotnikova has it would be damaging to me emotionaly, but maybe she is stronger than I am. Still if I won an Olympic gold and only 5% of people thought I deserved it, and atleast 80% though it was completely bogus and totally the result of corruption and a possible fixed outcome, I am not sure how I would cope with that feeling.
     
  27. fracturedleg

    fracturedleg Member

    88
    5
    8
    Sotnikova easily. Julia has achieved nothing in the sport yet other than her world silver. Post Olympic world medals should count for less though, not the same as any of the other 3 year worlds between Olympic years.
     
  28. ripingroar37

    ripingroar37 Member

    92
    2
    8
    I voted for sotnikova. She isnt that good and her olympic gold is a farce and wont even be recognized by people in the years to come, but Lipnitskaya is a talentless horse.
     
  29. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

    2,040
    472
    83
    ^Saying stuff like that greatly devalues your opinion in future discussions...just so you know. I'm not even a big Julia fan but that's just ridiculous.