Who would you pick for 2nd U.S ladie sspot to Worlds along with Wager

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by judgejudy27, Oct 29, 2012.

?

Which U.S lady will join Wagner on World team

Poll closed Feb 6, 2013.
  1. Gold

    29.3%
  2. Nagasu

    36.1%
  3. Gao

    21.8%
  4. Czisny

    6.8%
  5. Zawadzki

    4.1%
  6. Zhang

    2.0%
  1. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
    Messages:
    630
    Unfortunately GGold hasn't proven herself to be any different :/...yet. The only US lady who fits the consistent and handles pressure well bill is Ashley.

    Can we send two Ashley Wagners to worlds? ;) I'd put my money on that heheh
  2. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    11,250
    I mean I think she is most likely to be propped up. I agree she is more of a 2018 hope than a 2014 hope. But between Gao's competitive history (peaking too early), Zhang's scores, Nagasu's downgrades etc, there really aren't many choices.

    Hopefully one of these girls can step up BEFORE Nationals to make things easier.
  3. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    11,250
    Actually, if all the other girls are not reliable, perhaps just sending Wagner alone won't be a bad idea. She very likely will place top ten, thus securing 2 girls for Sochi. But in the event that she places top 2, she can secure 3 spots. It's a tough order I know, but certainly not impossible. It's probably easier to have Wagner place top two than have the second lady place top 8.
  4. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2002
    Messages:
    6,558
    Ashley is great, but sending her alone is a really bad idea to me. If she were to get sick while she's there and has to withdraw, we would have zero ladies to fall back on, and would actually miss getting an Olympic spot at all. Valentina Marchei finished 8th at Worlds with a 150.10, and Ksenia Makarova 9th with a 149.48. Ten US ladies have already scored higher than Valentina's score internationally this year- 185+ =Wagner, 170+ = Gao, Zawadzki, Gold, 160+ = Nagasu, Wang, 150- = Miller, Cesario, Keiser, and Hicks.

    That said, the Worlds field gets stronger this year when you put Tuktamysheva and Sotnikova in there instead of a Makarova and Korobeinikova. Osmond instead of Lacoste, Yuna Kim, Zijun Li, add Korpi back in...

    So far the SB list looks like this -


    1 188.37 Ashley WAGNER USA ISU GP Hilton HHonors Skate America 2012 21.10.2012
    2 182.86 Elena RADIONOVA RUS ISU JGP Austria 2012 15.09.2012
    3 181.76 Mao ASADA JPN ISU GP Cup of China 2012 03.11.2012
    4 177.92 Julia LIPNITSKAIA RUS ISU GP Cup of China 2012 03.11.2012
    5 176.45 Kaetlyn OSMOND CAN ISU GP Skate Canada International 2012 27.10.2012
    6 175.16 Akiko SUZUKI JPN ISU GP Skate Canada International 2012 27.10.2012
    7 174.25 Christina GAO USA ISU GP Hilton HHonors Skate America 2012 21.10.2012
    8 169.86 Kiira KORPI FIN ISU GP Cup of China 2012 03.11.2012
    9 168.96 Adelina SOTNIKOVA RUS ISU GP Hilton HHonors Skate America 2012 21.10.2012
    10 168.04 Kanako MURAKAMI JPN ISU GP Skate Canada International 2012 27.10.2012
    11 168.00 Elizaveta TUKTAMYSHEVA RUS ISU GP Skate Canada International 2012 27.10.2012
    12 163.46 Mirai NAGASU USA ISU GP Cup of China 2012 03.11.2012
    13 162.65 Angela WANG USA ISU JGP Croatia Cup 2012 06.10.2012
    14 161.65 Satoko MIYAHARA JPN ISU JGP Lake Placid 2012 01.09.2012
    15 160.52 Anna POGORILAYA RUS ISU JGP Pokal d. Blauen Schwerter 2012 12.10.2012
    15 160.52 Elene GEDEVANISHVILI GEO ISU GP Skate Canada International 2012 27.10.2012
    16 160.06 Zijun LI CHN ISU GP Cup of China 2012 03.11.2012
    17 158.79 Valentina MARCHEI ITA ISU GP Hilton HHonors Skate America 2012 21.10.2012

    - Alissa, Agnes, and Yuna Kim have yet to compete for an ISU SB score this season...
    Vash01 and (deleted member) like this.
  5. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Messages:
    6,970
    ^ Wow. Thanks for the list, Haribobo. It's a good snapshot of where we are. But, don't forget Kostner, who also hasn't skated yet. Will she debut internationally at Euros, then? and I forgot, is Ando out for the season?

    Ashley is in a very good position right now. I doubt Alissa or Agnes will top her score but Yu Na might.

    Back to Caroline: I reiterate that she's a scrapper, so I think she does have a chance at the #2 spot. But if any of Gao, Nagasu, Zawadzki or Czisny perform well, she'll be relegated behind them. Then again, ice is slippery and all of those ladies are capable of being craptacular. What are the chances, though, of all of them failing?
  6. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3,729
    The fact is we don't have a strong number 2 Lady here in the US right now so even if Ashley gets on the podium the other girl might not even make the top ten. To think the US almost always used to have two strong skaters at Worlds almost every year.
  7. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,508
  8. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    459
    Czisny has no chance whatsoever

    I think we can rule out zhang after her GP results

    Gao has had good results in the season but to me she still has the components of a junior

    Zawadski could easily make it, but she would have to skate 2 clean programs and we are still yet to see that

    Gold has to stop popping the easier jumps like her 3loop. She needs the technical points because her components are not so great

    Nagasu will have the edge on components, but has to land clean jumps



    Really could be any of them, most likely will be Nagasu with Gold trailing close behind.
  9. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,508
    Hmmm, Gold was winning this particular poll for awhile. Now, it's Nagasu by a point. In the same poll in a different thread, Nagasu is also winning, maybe because of her recent performance at NHK, while Gold's recent success at her last GP has been forgotten? Gao who started out ahead in this poll, after her silver at Skate America, is fast becoming an afterthought, particularly in the other/ same poll. ;)
  10. TwizzlerS

    TwizzlerS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2002
    Messages:
    1,482
    Gao is doing better in this poll than the other one. Both polls have Gold and Nagasu tied.
  11. PeterG

    PeterG Argle-Bargle-ist

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2002
    Messages:
    8,623
    Zhang will crush everyone in her path.
  12. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    25,227
    Too risky. Injuries happen.

    I believe that either Mirai or Gold are safe bets to finish top 10. Gao could also finish in top 10, but on the bubble. Assuming that Ashley finishes #1 or #2, the USA has a good chance of securing 3 spots at the 2014 Olympics.

    The skater should not send to world this year is Czisny. Nothing personal, but she is the least consistent of all, and when she does poorly, it's really really bad.

    Agnes needs to develop more consistency before making the 2013 worlds team. She could make the 2014 or 2015 worlds team, though (regardless of whether she makes the Olympic team or not). I still have hopes for her.
  13. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    13,349
    It will be interesting to see what they do if everyone skates their best at Nationals. I am actually not so sure Nagasu can beat Gold if both are at their best. Even Nagasu's best will be well beaten by Gold's best when it comes to TES, and Mirai's presentation is not what it used to be and she doesnt get very high PCS either anymore, although probably still higher than Gold. Zawadzki at her best would make it even more interesting. If Zawadzki skates her best in the SP she will probably kill the other two in that phase, and it is hard to guage her LP scoring potential since she has never skated a really good one, but she might still be able to hold on. A large part comes what the USFSA wants though, I am sure they will have already hinted at who they would prefer to get that 2nd spot all things equal, and that will play a large part in the marks pending performances.

    I am rooting for Gao to get the 2nd spot but like every year she will probably be at the mercy of the others and how many mistakes they make. She just doesnt have the scoring potential of the others, even though she has been consistent this year.

    I dont think Zhang and Czisny are any factors this year.

    I guess the last question is if Wagner has several mistakes and Nagasu or Gold or even Zawadzki skate perfectly what do the judges do. I suspect given her consistently great international results over the last year, and the complete lack of international reliability of all the others, they would still protect Wagner (with good reason) but would still be interesting.
  14. dawnie

    dawnie Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
    Messages:
    348
    Just this year? I think it's safe to say they won't be a factor at all when it comes to World and Olympic teams.
  15. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    13,349
    I think if the U.S regains 3 spots and Czisny skates well at Nationals this year and skates well next fall, and skates well at Nationals next year, she could get a spot on the team.

    Zhang I dont think has much or any chance at Sochi, but she could be around until 2018 and continue her improvement of last year if she gets back on track.
  16. dawnie

    dawnie Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
    Messages:
    348
    Even with 3 spots, I think the only way Czisny can make the Olympic team is to have the skate of her life in both SP and LP at Nationals next year. Stranger things have happened, sure. But I don't see the point of giving her a spot unless the USFSA were giving her a goodbye gift and wanted to send her out in style.

    I also don't see Zhang continuing past 2014.
  17. os168

    os168 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    869
    Miraicle "Not an Alien" Nagasu.

    ... for completely selfish reason, I want to check out her Exhibition Gala again which I really like, certainly more than her 2 competitive programs.
    She has proven she can regain judge's favour by being more consistent and going for the 3:3. She also seems to have momentum on her side coming off the bronze at NHK.
    My second choice is Gold who could do with more international exposure (to build up PCS) and experience.
    However given ice is slippery, I don't think Ashley is as a sure thing as everyone thinks. For example, I'd love Czsiny unFLATTen her last season treatment from USFSA and regain her placement just to watching everyone else going :mitchell: crazy, and break even more rulebooks :kickass: out of the window.



    :2faced: :slinkaway
  18. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    13,349
    I dont see why the USFSA would be that adverse to having Czisny on the 2014 Olympic team if they had 3 spots and if she deserved it via her performance(s) at Nationals. They wouldnt put her on the team over Wagner, and perhaps a 2nd skater who shines from now or then (maybe Gold or Nagasu if they help the U.S regain 3 spots) but I predict the 3rd spot for Sochi to be wide open, and if the U.S fails to regain 3 spots the USFSA will not be happy and the 2nd spot will also probably be wide open too. They dont need to worry about Czisny not qualifying spots for the Olympics, and if they have 3 spots even her qualifying spots for the 2015 Worlds wont be dependent on her if she is the U.S's #3 skater and they have 2 others they can really on who are fairly consistent, and they could even send her to Sochi and leave her off the World team like they did Wylie if they wish. She is still a skater who can produce a good international result if she somehow has a good day. I agree no way Czisny is seeing Worlds this year, even if she does a program with 3 different quadruple jumps at Nationals. They would give her 5s in PCS if neccessary (I know shocking to say that given the past USFSA and U.S judges lovefest with Czisny) to keep her off the World team knowing this is a pre Olympic year with Olympic spots on the line, but next year could be a window for her if she does everything right from now until then.

    As for Zhang you could be right, but she is young enough to go for 2018 if she wants to, but with Gold, Zawadzki, Gao, all likely going to 2018, and all the other up and comers who are just started to be noticed now, she probably wouldnt be any factor by then anyway.
  19. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,070
    Do you really think most of these skaters can last til 2018?! 6 more years? Skating/injuries can take a toll on the body, plus the ridiculous expenses associated with training another 6 years?
  20. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    10,242
    Alissa Czisny has been skating for forever and ever, like extending her career to try for 3 Olympic cycles (presumably), and in the end she is unlikely to make it to the Olympics for any of them. Anyways, IIRC Alissa is not from a wealthy family, but somehow she has managed to make things work and continue training all these years so there's so saying Caroline couldn't do the same. I think Caroline talked about wanting to go to college full time and become a vet though, but maybe she could put that off, or try and do both, hey, it's working for Christina.
  21. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,070
    There's a huge difference between attending online/home school (high school or college) like Alissa, for example, and attending a brick and mortar school. You can much more easily juggle skating and school when attending an online school- to begin with just schedule-wise, not having to physically attend classes during competition season, or not having to worry about missing finals on certain concrete days, etc. Anyone who can combine competitive skating and a brick and mortar school is amazing to me!
  22. Skater91

    Skater91 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2012
    Messages:
    118
    I know Rachael Flatt said she is out for the rest of the season but are you sure we cant send her anyway?

    Cant be worse than Alissa right?