Who to Assign to Ice Challenge Graz AKA Bye To Nationals

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by haribobo, Oct 23, 2013.

  1. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    I suspect the decision has already been made and not yet posted, but anyway, as this comp is Nov 19-24, it should give the assigned US skaters a bye to Nationals. I hope we have 2 spots per discipline but I'm only counting on 1. My vote is definitely for a Midwest lady- as it stands, we have Alissa Czisny, Hannah Miller, Barbie Long, Ashley Cain, and Mariah Bell all vying for 4 spots. It would be pretty silly not to have all 5 of them at Nationals. PAC is fairly tough but not quite as deep IMO- they have Angela Wang, Rachael Flatt, Vanessa Lam, and Leah Keiser, and of course Caroline Zhang who is quite a question mark at the moment- I could definitely see her taking the rest of the season off if she's injured in some way...and then Laney Diggs and Katarina Kulgeyko probably outside of that group. I definitely wouldn't choose someone from Eastern section- the strongest contendors for Nationals being Kiri Baga, Yasmin Siraj, and Francesca Chiera, and Joelle Forte, who are a solid 4... beyond that I guess Bauth, Buchanan, or Hu could slot in if someone else has a bad day.

    For Men, the section to get a guy a bye is definitely Pacs- with Messing, Omori, Razzano, Warren, Rabbitt, and possibly Vincent Zhou in the mix. Mids, which was once a major struggle to make it (remember the Abbott, Ward, Bradley, Pennington, Halverson, Cassar, Brauninger, Jahnke, Campbell, Ben Miller, Overett and even sometimes Lysacek years? that was brutal).....has really thinned out, and at this point we are looking at a pretty breezy walk for Mroz, Johnson, Dyer, and Kaugars. East has Carriere, Hochstein (who really both deserve a GP event at this point) and Dolensky, and then maybe someone like Daniel Raad.
     
  2. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    It depends on how many spots we have for Ice Challenge. Also, are all the ladies you listed competing as Seniors? Wow

    I agree that a Midwestern lady should be priority #1. If Alissa needs a qualifying score internationally, then she should be #1 on the list to go. If she is truly invested in an Olympic berth and needs to qualify score-wise, she should go with her mind set of achieving a minimum score, not necessarily blowing everyone's minds w/ scintillating performances. If not, the USFSA might want to just 'empty' the field by sending Hannah Miller or Mariah Bell. Those last two are probably the most deserving of a senior international competition out of the five Midwesterners you mention. Barbie Long hasn't been all that hot this year, and Ashley Cain went to Nebelhorn already.

    I also agree that the PAC field is not quite as deep and doesn't need to be thinned out - Right off the bat, Leah Keiser, having shown promise the past couple of years, has had abysmal performances recently. I think she may still be dealing w/ an injury (?); Caroline Zhang may also be injured and her story is the most depressing for any US lady right now - Worked hard to revamp her technique and actually came back to medal behind Ashley and Mao at 2012 4CC's, only to skate horrendously the past season which seems to be carrying over to this season. Angela Wang has had a full slate of international competitions via the JGP, Lam went to Finlandia and Flatt has had her day in the sun for quite a few years. I have a feeling that she's just skating for herself.

    More to play with if the US has 2 spots, obviously - 1 from Midwesterns and 1 from PACS would be my non-expert opinion

    ETA - I stand corrected on Keiser. I was unaware of her performances at Regionals. Looks like she's back in fighting shape.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2013
  3. RFOS

    RFOS Well-Known Member

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  4. Jayar

    Jayar Well-Known Member

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    For ladies, it makes sense to send Cain or Czisny-- the others are all skating 'junior' internationally, so I bet these two are on the short list. From Coasts, Keiser hasn't completed an assignment, and Lam has skated in a senior B. My best guess, though, is that Flatt and Czisny will get selected.

    I would love to see Coasts clear up for the men-- Has Keegan met criteria to compete internationally this season? If yes, then I would send him and Doug Razzano. I think that Vincent is out for the season, Shotaro is having injury problems, and Warren and Rabbitt aren't in the ISP. Carriere should definitely get another assignment, though, but Easterns isn't as competitive.
     
  5. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    I like your unbiased opinion, Jayar, and agree. :)
     
  6. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    Vincent Zhou was going to skate as a Senior this year at Nationals? Isn't he like 13?
     
  7. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    Kegan Messing earned the Worlds TES minimums at both Cup of Nice and Nebelhorn last season.
     
  8. SamuraiK

    SamuraiK Well-Known Member

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  9. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    Oh gosh, what brilliant strategizing. :rolleyes: However, good for D/S and K/O.
     
  10. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Interesting.

    Pairs entries - not surprised. Every Senior US pair has had at least 1 international senior B competition this year, so they are sending the most promising US pairs of those who aren't on the GP.

    Singles - I agree w/ Haribobo; utterly stupid. Not sending a US man at all??? For ladies, I don't mind Hicks going on its face, but Leonova might not make it to NHK which would leave a slot open, and Hicks is no. 2 on the substitute list. I think Ice Challenge coincides with NHK, though. I know you can't depend on these things but still ...

    It's a very telling entry list because it means Czisny probably isn't competing internationally this year. I don't think the USFSA will send anyone to NRW Trophy in Germany or Golden Spin in Croatia. Those are the last semi-major Senior B's I can think of.
     
  11. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    It also means her road to Nationals is much more difficult.
     
  12. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    I am not sure USFS has in one of its objectives a goal to thin out a sectional to make qualifying easier. It would be nice but it is not an importamt goal for them.

    Re Hicks. In the gp thread it is unclear whether Japan has to replace anyone at this time, and I am sure USFS waited to see if it could happen for Hicks. That said, I would be pissed if someone else gets the replacement inlieu of Hicks
     
  13. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Nice to see Donlan & Speroff made the cut, as well as Courtney Hicks, but disappointed that no US man did so. :(
     
  14. arcuel

    arcuel New Member

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    So I guess Alexander Johnson isn't well enough to compete yet? I'm so sad. I was hoping he'd get a senior B.
     
  15. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Vincent turned 13 today! :cool: Off-Topic... Vincent's latest blog has photos showing his post-surgery rehab.: http://govincentzhou.wordpress.com/2013/10/19/on-my-way-back/

    Donlan/Speroff (gold at Nepela) and Kayne/O'Shea (bronze in SLC) are the only 2 pairs that won medals in their first Senior B assignment that don't already have at least one GP so I'm glad they both have this opportunity.

    Stephen Carriere (silver in SLC) deserves a second Senior B assignment, IMO.

    If Czisny qualifies for Nationals by placing in the top 4 at Mids, perhaps she will be sent out in December to get the Olympic minimum qual. scores?
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2013
  16. B.Cooper

    B.Cooper Active Member

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  17. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    If that were the case, wouldn't there be a "TBA USA" on the entry list for the Senior Men?

    From the Announcement: "Entries by name of Skaters and Judges must be made not later than October 20th 2013 20:00 Graz time."
     
  18. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, I guess USFS isn't that invested in the strong 5 midwestern ladies all making it to Nationals. And as for Czisny, any hopes of going to the Olympics are likely gone because she'd need to get the international TES minimums before then to make the team, and 4CCs is the only international event between Nationals and the Olympics that USFS usually sends skaters to (I know there is Challenge Cup, but isn't that usually around the same time the Olympics are held? ie February?) Further, the 4 other ladies at Mids have all gotten at least 1, and some 2, international assignments already this season, but Czisny has not. Flatt and Lam in PACs have each gotten a senior B, Zhang was at SA, Keiser appears to be on the comeback trail now but wasn't in form to warrant an international assignment earlier this season anyways.
     
  19. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    There are two international competitions between US Nationals and the 27 January deadline for Sochi: Hamar Trophy (singles) and Skate Helena (singles, senior pairs). Coupe Internationale is listed for January 2014, dates TBD, but it's dance only.
     
  20. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Sylvia and Pinky. Indeed, the USFSA might be waiting to see what Czisny can accomplish at Sectionals before spending $$$ and sending her to what I assume would be some Senior B competition afterwards. (if that's the way it works).

    I think if Czisny does reasonably well at Sectionals, I think she should be considered for a December competition

    Kwanfan, you are noting Senior B's post-US Nationals. I assume your theory as to why the USFSA would wait until after Nationals to send Czisny to a Senior B is because they are counting on the fact she probably won't make the cut anyway and they are being 'thrifty'. I haven't heard any updates on her condition, but recovery seems to be taking a verrryy long time.
     
  21. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    I wonder why USFS hasn't been sending anywhere near as many men as they have been ladies to international events.
     
  22. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Fewer elite men total?
     
  23. jiejie

    jiejie Active Member

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    It's possible that USFS has been willing but either due to injuries, schedule conflicts or other reasons, the men they've contacted aren't interested. I do think it's odd that Carriere hasn't been given a second Senior B. And Keegan Messing is missing in intl action...not sure what's going on with him. Some, like Mroz, maybe be on a trajectory that USFS doesn't think merits sending out this fall.
     
  24. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    I only noted those two Senior B's after Nationals because pinky166 wrote that 4C's was the only international between US Nats and the Olympics. Since USFS said that no US Olympic athletes would be going to 4C's, she'd have to go to one of the other two if she's not scheduled for one before US Nats, and she makes the Olympic team.

    I don't think this is likely, but it is possible.
     
  25. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    The 3 Senior men in the ISP who competed in a major summer club comp. but were not assigned to a Senior B this fall are:

    Tim Dolensky 190.88 (126.35 FS) Skate Detroit (DNQ for 2013 Nationals)
    Keegan Messing 189.77 (127.02 FS) Glacier Falls (16th at 2013 Nationals)
    Brandon Mroz 181.97 (118.95 FS) Glacier Falls (9th at 2013 Nationals; did not skate well in placing 4th at Gardena Spring Trophy in April 2013)
     
  26. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    There were already three international events where the US has sent skaters but no men. Those three were shafted.
     
  27. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    What happens if a spot opens at Russian GP and the Russian Fed wants to invite Hicks?
     
  28. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    See my post upthread. Leonova is out of NHK and it coincides with the time frame for Ice Challenge (not sure if this spot will be left open or has been used, but Hicks was a candidate for replacement). IMO, it's ridiculous the USFSA is sending Hicks to Ice Challenge. They should have kept her in reserve for the GP series and sent one of the Midwestern gals to Ice Challenge.
     
  29. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't she just withdraw from Ice Challenge?
     
  30. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I just assume she'd withdraw from Ice Challenge.