Who is the male version of Miki Ando?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by pinky166, Dec 8, 2010.

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Who is the male version of Miki Ando?

  1. Evgeni Plushenko

    10 vote(s)
    9.8%
  2. Evan Lysacek

    4 vote(s)
    3.9%
  3. Brian Joubert

    33 vote(s)
    32.4%
  4. Nobunari Oda

    13 vote(s)
    12.7%
  5. Kevin Van Der Perren

    27 vote(s)
    26.5%
  6. Kevin Reynolds

    5 vote(s)
    4.9%
  7. Michal Brezina

    4 vote(s)
    3.9%
  8. Other - please identify in post

    6 vote(s)
    5.9%
  1. Extranjera

    Extranjera New Member

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    ITA. Michelle Kwan also could land 5 kinds of triples and even triple-triple combination but I don't think someone considers her to be one of the strongest jumper.
  2. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Atleast in 2007 there could be an argument for Miki being the best jumper but it is only an argument. As it is I am pretty sure Kim and Asada on a good day collected more points on jumps than she did. A good comparision would be the short program were Ando regularly ended up below Kim and Asada if all skated cleanly. And I think breaking down the protocals they both gained more points on jumps than her most times (despite Kim doing an easier triple-triple combo). Either way she was never hands down the best jumper like Joubert. And unlike Joubert, Ando atleast made an attempt to improve other areas of her skating over the years. So I agree they are different skaters.

    Now it would be even be more unlikely since unlike 2007 she isnt doing any of the hard triple combinations she did then, especialy the triple lutz-triple loop. If she is it would only be because everything who matters is missing now.
  3. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    Yuna can only jump with her toes. Her edge jumps are :blah:. Miki's really the only female out there who knows how to jump with edges and with toes.

    Mao has odd technique on many of her jumps (which is why she's trying to fix them), and Rochette probably comes closest to Miki in term of jumps.
  4. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    What matters is how you collect points. Kim and a good Asada collect more points on their jumps than either Ando or Rochette, thus their jumps are "better" in a competitive sense. Kristi could only do toe jumps as well and she was still a better jumper than Kerrigan or Bonaly who could do all kinds of jumps.
  5. Squibble

    Squibble New Member

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  6. ks777

    ks777 Well-Known Member

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    According to who? is that a fact or your assesment only? Kristi was never known for her jumping, if I remember correctly.
  7. igniculus

    igniculus Well-Known Member

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  8. doubleflutz

    doubleflutz New Member

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    She landed 3LZ-3T back in the Dark Ages, before most ladies were even bothering with 3T-3T. Her jumps were quite small, but she was absolutely a better jumper than Kerrigan and Bonaly. I think she gets overlooked as a jumper, because her biggest domestic rival was Tonya Harding, and internationally it was Midori Ito, who were both so good at their peak, they could have won the Men's event, at least as far as jumping goes.
  9. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Actually a good comparison, although Contesti probably is even more of a jumping bean than Miki (if that's possible) - his skating is really scratchy. He does usually do well for himself though and I'm sometimes :confused: at the PCS marks he gets. To me it seems like he has no flow and the skating skills of a novice, but the judges seem to think otherwise.
  10. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Kristi's jumps were more valuable to points than either Kerrigan or Bonaly (well atleast while she and Bonaly competed head to head). Doing a triple lutz- triple toe that was quite consistent, and consistently landing 2 triple lutzes, and 5 or 6 triples, despite hardly ever landing an edge jump other than sometimes a triple loop, was of more value than what either Kerrigan or Bonaly who was comfortable doing each triple bar the triple axel was putting out on a regular basis. If competitions were just scored on jumps from 89-92, there probably still isnt a single competition Kerrigan or Bonaly would have beaten her, or if there is one feel free to point out which it was, despite Kristi's small jumps and being only a toe jumper. The fact Kerrigan who was somewhat competitive on the 2nd mark never did beat Kristi in that period already reflects that.
  11. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    Well, Kerrigan never truly had a good training ethic before bombing her 93 Worlds LP, and Bonaly didn't really get stronger jumps until after the Olympics in Albertville (you know, her jumps were all over the place).
  12. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Yes this is very true. Still being equally adapt at toe and edge jumps doesnt neccessarily make you a better jumper as far as competitive worth than someone who isnt. Kim if she jumps her best will still produce more points without a triple axel or triple loop will produce more points just out of jumps than even peak Miki Ando, let alone the current Miki Ando who doesnt do as difficult of jump combinations or as many triples as she used to. Likewise Asada with her 3 axels does not need to do all the triples to produce more points from jumps than Ando. Kim only has one really off triple of the main 5 anyway- the loop, and Kristi- the salchow, so it isnt that big a deal. It is not like Miki Ando ever was doing a triple axel or has done her quad since the dinosaurs roamed the earth either.
  13. ks777

    ks777 Well-Known Member

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    Well back to the topic, I still think Miki is a good jumper and not just ok jumper.
  14. sson4won

    sson4won New Member

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    :confused:

    I don't want to argue about Yuna's jump here, but let me clarify this one.
    Her Salchow and Axel are good. Not saying best(I think they are best though) but good enough call her an excellent jumper.


    And I picked VDP cause when I saw this title his name just came up.:lol:
  15. MikiAndoFan#1

    MikiAndoFan#1 Well-Known Member

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    Yu-Na's Salchow is definately not good. She doesn't achieve very much height on that jump and it just looks awkward. Even her Loop is better than her Salchow. Her Axel, however, is great.
  16. burntBREAD

    burntBREAD New Member

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    Yes, her Salchow is so low. I also agree that her loop is better. She just can't do her loop simply because of injury and her body structure, but it's actually a better jump. Her axel is definitely excellent, look at all the combos she can put off of that jump.
  17. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. She won the FS today by quite a large margin, even though she was still only 5th overall. Also that 2a-3t is gorgeous and looks so easy for her, she really needs to start going for it every time.
  18. Lainerb

    Lainerb New Member

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    Miki's TES from jumps at GPF: 49.26

    Rochette's TES from jumps at Japan Open: 41.98

    :p

    Nearly the difference of a 3axel.
  19. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    Your point? Do you really think it's accurate to compare points from an event in early October (for which Rochette was a last minute replacement and obviously wasn't training full-out for)? :rolleyes:
  20. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Thats nice, so why not compare just their TES from jumps of both at the Japan Open. If Rochette was not a semi retired skater who competed all season she obviously would have improved a great deal as the season went along just like everyone else has, and just like she and others always have in the past. Heck the level of the ladies so far this season even someone like Rochette would have won everything so far, unless she had a splatfest somewhere along the way.
  21. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    And still beat Ando easily.
  22. Lainerb

    Lainerb New Member

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    Umm...You are the one claiming that Rochette is the second best jumper out there right now, but clearly Miki is capable of consistently landing her content in the long program. Anyway, I don't believe Miki was planning on peaking at the Japan Open. I compared Rochette's best(and only) performance and technical content to that of Ando's and well Ando is better(as far as jumps). Sorry.

    Im also not sure how you can claim that Yu Na Kim has the best jumps currently when we even have yet to see her compete once this season. Basically you are comparing what Yu-Na did nearly a year ago as your basis for claiming she has the best jumps. This is even more off base than my comparison of two skates at different competitions.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2010
  23. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Read chipso's post to summarize your sorely flawed logic. I am surprised you are so boastful too after your beloved Ando could only manage 5th place at the GP final even after being gifted the most woeful field in the events 15 year history to play with. :lol:
  24. Lainerb

    Lainerb New Member

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    Why? Because her freeskate has the highest score of any lady so far this season on the GP series. She also went for every jump that she had planned in this event. Sure she failed during the short program, but it shows the determination she has.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2010
  25. MikiAndoFan#1

    MikiAndoFan#1 Well-Known Member

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    Dear, Miki was far behind after the short program and had a lot of catching up to do. Miki would have won had she skated a clean short program.
  26. Lainerb

    Lainerb New Member

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    Indeed, Miki is pushing herself when she doesn't have too. It's apparent that Miki is nearly as in fine of a form as she has ever been and it will just be matter of time before she skates two clean programs. Let's see how Miki does once she recovers from her back injury.