Who is the Best Ladies Ice Dancer?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by VIETgrlTerifa, Apr 20, 2013.

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Who is the Best Ladies Ice Dancer?

  1. Natalia Linichuk

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Natalia Bestemianova

    2.1%
  3. Marina Klimova

    19.1%
  4. Oksana Grishuk

    14.9%
  5. Anjelika Krylova

    3.5%
  6. Marina Anissina

    3.5%
  7. Barbara Fusar-Poli

    1.4%
  8. Tatiana Navka

    6.4%
  9. Elena Grishina

    1.4%
  10. Isabelle Delobel

    2.1%
  11. Tessa Virtue

    32.6%
  12. Other

    12.8%
  1. zilam98

    zilam98 Well-Known Member

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    i also love anissina for she and gwendal were the ones that first drew me in to ice dance, and while i think tessa is more nimble on her feet given the requirements of CoP, i agree with most of your points about marina. hence my vote. tessa is a very close second for me and i actually flipflop between the two.

    as for the flamenco, i will always remember a/p's and p/b's more, especially a/p's, and compare subsequent flamencoes to those teams. zazoui came up with such awesome flamencoes for her teams!

    i was really hoping for a blues sd for the sochi games so i could see v/m do a blues-based number similar to a/p's blues olympic cd. that was one hot cd!
     
  2. gk_891

    gk_891 Active Member

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    As excellent as Anissina was, I didn't particularly like the way she often threw herself into her positions rather than placing herself in them. It made A&P's unison and timing look sloppy and suspect. I personally don't consider her quite in the same league as Virtue, Klimova, or Grishuk. I know many will disagree and that's completely fine.
     
  3. gk_891

    gk_891 Active Member

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    I love that OSP. I remember reading a quote from some ice dancers that doing the golden waltz CD is harder than doing an entire free dance. The timing has to be dead on yet it has to appear effortless and graceful. But there's no place for any stroking in order to gain any speed. Truly a masterpiece of choreography and it also really demonstrated how incredible K&P's edges were.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2013
  4. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    After watching the VHS ISU compulsories (the one from 1993) with our coach, Maia Usova is far from being the best dancer ever. I was really surprised but the way our coach showed us every flaw of her technique was obvious !
    And Isabelle Duchesnay, I think she, herself, doesn't think she is among the best dancers ever ;)
     
  5. gk_891

    gk_891 Active Member

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    Usova's compulsories were not the greatest for sure, especially relative to skaters like Klimova, Grishuk, and Torvill. I still remember the 94 Olympics during the blues CD and they showed a big close-up of U/Z's chocktaw and you very clearly see her starting off on a back inside edge and then sliding over to a back outside one. Yet that was somehow used as an example of a good chocktaw! Sad thing was that it was still a big improvement for them since at the 92 Olympics, Usova couldn't even be bothered to slide over to the correct back outside edge as she simply did a back inside one instead each and every time.
     
  6. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

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    I find this to be a common issue with the choctaws. I noticed it a lot last year with the Canton female dncers, which is why thy were missing the second key point in the rhumba. They were not getting cleanly on the outside edge. They either hit flats or got on their inside edges and rolled over onto the outside (I always wtch the pattern dances and footwork sequences in slow motion afterwards to see these things). I like Nathalie's choctaw--great blade placement.
     
  7. gk_891

    gk_891 Active Member

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    Very true. But Marina Klimova, Oksana Grishuk and Jayne Torvill don't seem to have such a problem with their choctaws (thanks for clarifying the spelling). I think that shows what superior skaters they were relative to Usova.
     
  8. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    And, for that matter, relative to Virtue & Davis & Shibutani.

    And it's one more reason why it is a total travesty that Jayne Torvill is not on this list.
     
  9. literaryfreak

    literaryfreak Well-Known Member

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  10. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    So I made a mistake. Sorry. I know you're speaking in hyperbole, but "total travesty" and "strange poll" is a bit much. Just pretend this thread actually says "Best Ladies Ice Dancer who is NOT Jayne Torvill or Pakhomova" to feel better, then get over it.
     
    bmcg and (deleted member) like this.
  11. gk_891

    gk_891 Active Member

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    Interesting. But I've watched Klimova's choctaws, Grishuk's choctaws, and Torvill's choctaws during the blues CD and I'm still not detecting a back inside edge rather than the required back outside one. If they didn't do it properly, they did a much better job of disguising it than Usova sure did. Perhaps it was only during the rhumba CD? I haven't really watched that particular CD very closely (as I'm not a fan of it).
     
  12. escaflowne9282

    escaflowne9282 Well-Known Member

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    This poll causes death in the soul. There is only one contemporary ice-dancer that a case can be made for.
     
  13. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    If we're talking best, I have to go with Tessa Virtue. She has amazing skating skills and great technique and also moves her body very well.

    However, my favorite female ice dancer is Tatiana Navka. I love the way that she carries herself on the ice. She has such charisma and an unmatched sexiness. She was also an amazing skater and dancer in her own right and has beautiful lines.
     
  14. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

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    Love Navka too and ITA about the sexiness. Incredible presence and gorgeous line. And Tessa is such a complete dancer that she is definitely in the top group for me...i just find it impossible to choose a winner.

    Regarding the rhumba choctaws, they really are so tricky and I don't feel they are necessarily reflective of overall technique, imo. It is funny because Usova had beautiful turnout so one might think she would have an easier time with that partcular step, but it is so difficult to place the blade right in time on the outside edge and get that backwards momentum. I wonder if we watched Klimova, Gritschuk, and Torville perform their respective choctaws in slow motion if we might sometimes see the same issue I identified with the Canton females, but I take your point about hiding it, gk_891. I've always felt that Usova's overall edge control and all-around technique was excellent. What other things did your coach point to, briancoogaert, if you don't mind sharing. I find these discussions fascinating:)
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2013
  15. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBD0gO7pd7g
    For all of you who haven't seen the Navka sex factor yet
     
  16. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    Jayne Torvill. If she had her own category I think she would have more votes.
     
  17. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    Why is Meryl Davis not an option?

    I picked Marina Klimova for her edges, lines, emotion, and the overall beauty of her skating.
     
  18. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I find this discussion and the method by which today's pattern dances are judged very interesting. What DO you do when you have an ice dancer with superior overall basic skating, timing, and expression, but who does the most important step of the dance incorrectly? Does it negate the rest of the dance in its entirety? Should a couple who skates far apart with a small pattern place ahead because they got the key points right? I don't know. IIRC U&Z were good enough that they were part of the ISU instructional videos along with very young V&M, so there was something there that was considered textbook (I don't know if they demonstrated rhumba in that video so I'm speaking generally).

    I was annoyed at first with the concept of having levels in a pattern dance (same steps ought to equal same base value), but I'm seeing it now. By assigning the level, you reward the couple for doing the key points correctly; however, you still have GOE to judge the other general qualities that made a good CD. I'm not sure this is occurring in practice and there even seems to be confusion among fans. I have read a lot of comments that so-and-so got good levels on the YP, so how could their GOE be low, and vice versa?

    And on another totally unrelated note, wanted to mention a couple of excellent female ice dancers that never made it to the top because of injuries or partner issues: Anastasia Grebenkina, Emily Samuelson, Jamie Silverstein, Jana Kokhlova, and Nora Hoffman.
     
  19. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    This was the case of Cappellini and Lanotte, I think. Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but I think they got level fours on both polka patterns throughout the season, but their GOE was always so low. Happened also with Virtue and Moir, they got the best levels out of the Canton teams on the polka, yet their GOE was low (by their standards). Then you see teams with level threes and a huge GOE, makes you wonder. I am still against assigning levels to the patterns for this very reason. If the GOE is going to end up determining the mark, just use GOE then.
     
  20. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    I wouldn't have described the data quite that way.

    C&L hit 2 more key points over the season than D&W and V&M did. D&W and V&M hit exactly the same number of key points. All 3 teams had at least one international event where they hit 6 key points.


    V&M Skate Canada 3 kp
    V&M CoR 3 kp
    V&M GPF 5 kp
    V&M 4CCs 5 kp
    V&M Worlds 6 kp

    V&M Total 22 kp

    D&W Skate America 4 kp
    D&W NHK 3 kp
    D&W GPF 4 kp
    D&W 4CCs 6 kp
    D&W Worlds 5 kp

    D&W Total 22 kp

    C&L Skate Canada 4 kp
    C&L TEB 5 kp
    C&L GPF 6 kp
    C&L Euros 4 kp
    C&L Worlds 5 kp

    C&L total 24 kp
     
  21. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I was referring to Worlds in VM's case. I knew C-L had success with their levels this season, but why the low GOE? Thanks for bringing those numbers!
     
  22. morqet

    morqet Well-Known Member

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    I think the GOE is because they skate small, although the pattern is correct it is not as big as other couples can produce. Anna's edges also are often not that deep.
     
  23. Simone411

    Simone411 aka IceSkate98

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    I agree with that. I love Jayne's quality of skating.

    I voted for Marina. I love her originality, her edges and artistry.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRNgq4cQIU8
     
  24. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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  25. shoocreme

    shoocreme New Member

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    empress tessa
     
  26. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

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    I agree, VIETgrlTerifa (and thank you for starting this thread as i am learning a lot from it:)). What I like most about this samba (cuz i really don't like the music and am not crazy about some of the choreo) is that they actually had the bounce action of the samba. The way they bend and straighten the knees--that is so key to samba. K&P were a very versatile team. So many teams tackled the samba rhythm last year in the SD but very few actually got it. Actually, i felt that the Latin dances on the whole were not well interpreted. The only top teams who really got it were V&M, C&L, and P&B, imo.

    Interesting points about the pattern dances. Missing a key point is very costly and the GOEs, which relect the quality of the pattern, don't really allow you to make up the difference in levels because the judges can only award integers ranging from -3 to +3 (and then that is converted with the scale of values). For example in the Yankee Polka, one could miss the right back outside edge of the closed choctaw on the first section and get dropped a level which translates to one less point than a level 4. They could still execute a strong overall pattern (deep edges, great amplitude, etc.) but even if they score a full GOE higher than the next closest team, that only translates to a 0.5 point advantage over that team, which still leaves them with a deficit of 0.5. They would have to be far superior in the pattern to make up that lost point (as they would need to be 2 full GOEs ahead of the next team to do so) since there is not much with which the judges can separate the teams in the GOEs for the pattern, so it makes missing a key point very costly. Does that make sense? I wish the scale of values allowed for 1.0 points per GOE for those patterns.
     
  27. robinhood

    robinhood Active Member

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    I dunno a lot of technique in ice dancing, but honoring the great ESTA I will say my all time favourite is Pasha!
     
  28. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    If I were Natalia Bestemianova, I would have used conditioner and combed my hair. I also would have told Tarasova to lay off all the squat position choreography.
     
  29. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    Bestemianova was my favorite Carmen before Virtue played her. :)
     
  30. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    I wish I could vote for Tracy Wilson. Even though she wasn't that great of a pure dancer, she was such a good skater, and she and Rob McCall were perky and cute.

    1988 Olympics FD