Who has had a better career- Weir or Abbott

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by mustafinabars, Jan 13, 2013.

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Who has had the best career of these two guys so far

Poll closed May 28, 2014.
  1. Johnny Weir

    159 vote(s)
    52.8%
  2. Jeremy Abbott

    142 vote(s)
    47.2%
  1. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    Johnny is an international star, Jeremy has fans mostly in US. And I don't think, that Jeremy is better artistic skater as Johnny. No. Johnny has more natural talent, like Jeremy.
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
  2. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    IMO, Johnny is looking for elegance, but doesn't try to understand the music, and Jeremy is more in the sense of the music. So, IMO, Jeremy is a more artistic skater. ;)
  3. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    No.

    Stéphane Lambiel and Evgeni Plushenko both lost their eligibility by participating in non-sanctioned events in 2010. Plushenko, of course, sought and obtained reinstatement, but Lambiel hasn't. Since the ISU hasn't changed the pertinent rule since then, it could happen again.
  4. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Jeremy's Grand Prix final performances in 2009 would have won Worlds especialy going in with the clout as U.S #1 (while the U.S #2 who was 3rd at Nationals ended up winning Worlds). Jeremy's National performances in 2010 would have won gold at the Olympics and silver at Worlds. Thus I would say the answer to that is obvious, Jeremy is the one who blew more opportunites. Johnny didnt even have that many, a chance at a medal at the 2006 Olympics maybe, and the bronze he did win at the 2008 Worlds. A chance at the bronze at the 2005 Worlds, but he was injured. I would say for the most part he did as well as he was going to. Of course blowing your opportunities is not a positive thing anyway.
  5. dinakt

    dinakt Well-Known Member

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    They are so different.
    In terms of careers, I'd say it's a wash, more or less. So far.
    In terms of a following and legacy...
    Johnny has a bigger following. He is also more about being a persona on ice- somebody with beauty, line, elegance, and sass. Johnny expresses himself, and does it admirably. I think the sheer fact that he is so admired in Russia while being openly gay and married is a tremendous legacy, one of many.
    Jeremy is much more about experimenting with choreography and serving the music. It is no accident that so many skating pros ( John Kerr, Kimberly Navarro, Kim Yu-Na and Elena Vodorezova immediately come to mind) go out of their way to express their admiration of Jeremy's art. For my part, I love him to bits. Skater's skater, musician's skater, less about personality and more about variety and complexity of expression.
    They are both quite outstanding though, well beyond their medal count:)
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2013
  6. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ ITA, dinakt!
  7. nubka

    nubka Well-Known Member

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    I voted for Johnny because he had his own reality show and is much more well known to the public... :D
  8. ciocio

    ciocio New Member

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    Plushenko didn't participate in non-sanctioned events, he lost his eligibility because Russian Federation withdrew the permission they had give him to participate in some KOI shows.
    Skaters which participate in non-sanctioned events can't apply for reinstatement.
  9. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    Well said!
  10. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    TheIronLady and (deleted member) like this.
  11. chanunderrated

    chanunderrated Member

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    For now Weir but if Abbott wins his 4th U.S title then him. The legacy of both is mostly centered around their U.S Nationals legacy, as both have little to no international legacy of any sort. Abbott already is better than Weir at the thing both of their careers are most based around, both 3 U.S titles, but Abbott beat Lysacek at his peak in 2 of them, so another U.S title for Abbott would make it easily him I think.
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  12. sadya

    sadya Active Member

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    To me they're both amazing, each in his own way. I enjoy both their skating styles (which I can't say about all skaters!). It's a very difficult choice to make in this case. They both still achieved more than most people, even if they didn't win World or Olympic gold.

    Sometimes I think Abbott might still win a Worlds or even Olympics, you never know what happens, ice is slippery after all as the cliché but very true saying is. Then I remember the Japanese skaters and Plushenko and some of the European skaters even and think, well, perhaps one of the other medals if he's flawless, but maybe not gold.

    Both Abbott and Weir have impressed me mostly with their skating styles and gave us all something for every mood we're in, movie suspense, drama on ice, fun skating, simple elegent skating, etc. And the best part is that they're not done skating yet. I'm looking forward to all their future skating, no matter what their results will be or have been.
  13. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Abbott is a better skater than Weir, yet Weir has achieved more, so while Jeremy's competitive results are somewhat disappointing for a skater of his calliber, Johnny's aren't as much, because he wasn't as prone to folding under pressure.
  14. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

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    Well, I guess it depends on how you define a career. I much much much prefer Abbott. Had I skated competitively, I would rather realize my skating on the level of Jeremy Abbott than being a National Enquirer type who coasted like Weir. I was quite taken with Weir at Cleveland 2000 Nats even though he totally blew the LP. He was clearly a standout. I enjoyed his 2002 performances and was happy when he won in 2004. But then his skating just stagnated, his artistic sensibilty was more just a shock value and superficial choreo. Let's just say that if I had to choose from I would much rather realize myself skatingwise as Jeremy Abbott than Weir. YMMV. Abbott's 2010 Nats program would have won Olympic gold, it was blissful. Weir was NEVER in contention for Oly gold. Then Abbott bombed, but his skating is really what everyone should strive for. Weir? Not really unless you think Lady Gaga programs deserve high PCS.

    It was sort of would you rather have been Bowman or Wylie? I'd rather have been Wylie, though Bowman was more successful, at least as an amateur minus Paul's Oly medal. Like Weir, I found Bowman very superficial in his movements and musical interpretation. But like with Abbott, I always thought that Wylie had some brains backing up his skating, that there was plenty of thought and nuance.
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2013
  15. sadya

    sadya Active Member

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    Interesting comparing those situations. Perhaps you're right. Personally, I enjoyed both of those too, I loved the skating of Bowman as much as that of Wylie. I do think Bowman had amazing skating skills though, even though the focus on his personality on ice (and off ice) took the attention away sometimes of what he was doing on his blades.

    It's great to have many different types of great skaters at the same time, it makes the competition more interesting and entertaining. I remember downloading a fluff peace about the different personalities of Bowman and Wylie. They showed Bowman relaxing and hanging out while Wylie was studying and working hard. They said something like 'every mother wants her daughter to be with Wylie while every daughter wants to be with Bowman', the words were different of course. It was a long time ago since I watched the fluffs and interviews from that era. I remember Browning once saying that when he first saw Bowman skating, he thought he'd never beat him.
  16. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    ^^^
    THIS.

    Johnny has had the greater success overall. And a reality show to go with it!
  17. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    Jeremy also did not beat Johnny last time they went head to head.
  18. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    But Alex Forrest, Johnny Weir was in second place after the sp at 2006 Olympics behind Plushy, and Johnny should arguably have been in front of Plushy (but Plush had the longevity and rep status, plus more political backing obviously). Certainly, Johnny skated more smoothly with exquisite ride-out on his jumps and much better choreography than Plushenko. It was a given that Plushenko was going to win gold at that Olympics though. Still, Johnny actually was at the least, "in contention" for Olympic gold in 2006. He "missed the bus" and didn't skate well in the fp, as is well known, but that doesn't mean he "was NEVER in contention for Olympic gold."

    Also, Johnny skated very well at 2010 Olympics and arguably should have been in contention for at least the podium, but his political stock which was never very high (domestically or internationally), had dropped so low by then. He still had the talent, but they locked him into sixth place even though he skated better than at least two guys placed in front of him in both sp and fp. In addition, of course, Johnny was in contention for gold after the sp at 2008 Worlds, and he was also in contention for the podium at 2004 and 2005 Worlds.
  19. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I wouldnt say Johnny was a gold contender in 2006. Plushenko was the only gold contender really. If anyone had a very outside shot to beat him if Plushenko made mistakes it was Lambiel or Joubert, nobody else. Yes he was 2nd in the short program with one of the only clean shorts of the night so kudos to him, but he was 10 points back of Plushenko, so that isnt in contention for gold in that sense either. Weir never had any possible hope of winning the actual gold medal either in 2006 or 2010, and I would concur he was definitely not in contention for it. He did have a shot to medal in 2006, along with about 8 other guys.
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2013
  20. judiz

    judiz Well-Known Member

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    Johnny definitely had the most natural talent I've ever seen in a skater, you don't wake up one day at age 12, put on skates for the first time and teach yourself how to do an axle in your basement and in a cornfield and then four years later become the world junior champion.

    I really have to wonder how far Johnny would had gone had he had a coach from the beginning, who made him do full run throughs and spend more than three hours a day on the ice.
  21. KimGOAT

    KimGOAT Active Member

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    Abbott because of the GPF and since his National wins were more spectacular.
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  22. KimGOAT

    KimGOAT Active Member

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    What show was that? I never heard of it. Either way I doubt it is replacing Survivor, Big Brother house, or the Kardashians anytime soon.
  23. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    He had at least two seasons, on Bravo and Logo. Be Good Johnny Weir. It wasn't bad. He's definitely managed to make himself a D list celebrity outside of skating.
  24. KimGOAT

    KimGOAT Active Member

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    Oh that is good. I am not his fan but was made he was kept out of Stars of Ice because he was gay, so hoped he somehow could make the living he deserved but couldnt make out of pro skating.
  25. sadya

    sadya Active Member

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    Because he was gay? I've read a similar opinion somewhere else a while ago, but I doubt that can be the reason since for example Orser was gay and on Stars on Ice. Perhaps some of the comments of Weir weren't liked or his attitude. (before someone puts words in my typing which I never meant nor said, I like the skating of Orser as well as the skating of Weir and Abbott for that matter)
  26. attyfan

    attyfan Well-Known Member

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    I doubt that any skater could make a living out of "pro skating" now ... SOI is down from sixty (60) shows a season to six (6); the number of Disson specials has been cut; and things like COI, cheesefests (all pro or pro-ams) and the serious pro events all have gone out of existence.
  27. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    If you want to make a living off Pro Skating now you do it in Asia or Europe (especialy Asia).
  28. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Apr 9, 2013
  29. sadya

    sadya Active Member

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    I still watch his skating too. :) Some skaters are worth watching even years later.
  30. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

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    In terms of winning, Weir had better career than Abbott. That was quite vexing because Abbott is a much better skater in terms of skating talent and artistic abilities. What Abbott has actually put on ice were something that Weir could only gasp and admire from the board.
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  31. angelflies

    angelflies Member

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    I dont know. I guess Abbott because of the Grand Prix Final title.
  32. chanunderrated

    chanunderrated Member

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    I picked Abbott because of winning the Grand Prix final achievement.
  33. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    Gonna pick Abbott because at least HE, to my knowledge, has never faked an injury just because something wasn't going his way...
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  34. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    Prevail my darling Abbott, PREVAIL!!! :lynch:
  35. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    It is a close call and kind of like comparing apples and oranges.

    I would say that "on paper," it's Weir because he has a World medal and has been more consistent, but Abbott can pass him with another U.S. title or a World or Olympic medal. On a gut level, however, I think it's Abbott because his "career skates," like this and this are so much better than anything Weir has ever done.
  36. KimGOAT

    KimGOAT Active Member

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    I picked Abbott because of the Grand Prix final title. I think that gives him the edge on Weir as far as better career. Better skater is Weir by a landslide though. So much talent, he should have been a many time World Champion.
  37. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    I like Abbott but Weir had a better eligible career because he was more reliable in the short program in all major championships (his reliable short kept him in top eight in all Olympics and worlds). Abbott's less-reliable short program record often landed him out of top eight after the short, sometimes out of top ten at worlds and in Vancouver.

    Of course, things can change if Abbott has a good comeback next year.
  38. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    This thread has been revived ... wish both their careers could be. Obviously, Jeremy realistically has the better chance of redemption this coming season.

    No matter what, Abbott and Weir are both beautiful skaters. They have both suffered from competition nerves, and that appears to be one of the huge factors that has held both of them back from winning Olympic and World gold, which they both possess/ possessed the exquisite all-around talent to achieve. Talent, nerves, luck, politics, training, coaching decisions, programs, hard work and skate order ultimately are some of the major factors which determine overall career results.
    Last edited: May 26, 2013
  39. butyrskafanatic

    butyrskafanatic Member

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    Abbott and Weir both had potential and ability to dominate. I think Weir though has often been held back by politics. I think Abbott on the other hand had the political push behind him needed and all the ability but still failed. No doubt Weir is the better competitor of the two. He skated really well at 2004 Worlds, 2008 Worlds, 2010 Olympics, even 2005 Worlds. Abbott has never skated well when needed except maybe the 2010 Worlds.
  40. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ I get what you are saying and I agree to an extent -- more-so re your thoughts about Johnny. I wouldn't put down either Johnny or Jeremy very harshly and dismissively. As usual, a combo of factors are always involved in success and failure.

    Keep in mind that both Jeremy and Johnny were never huge political favorites on the U.S. national scene (which in some instances hurt both of them internationally). It was Lysacek who usually received the USFS political favoritism jackpot. For example, Jeremy was slighted at 2011 Nationals after having a decent GP season. Yes, Jeremy stumbled in the fp at 2011 Nationals, but he'd been kept a bit behind Ryan B in the sp, which was an overly harsh judgment. I say that even though I too love Ryan B and it was nice to see him win a National title. Still, even though Jeremy had not performed well at Worlds for two out of three years, he should not have been left off the World team in 2011.

    I think that decision impacted and undermined the confidence and stature of the U.S. men's team at a crucial point (with the two better known veterans, Evan and Johnny in semi-retirement). The U.S. had 3 slots in 2011 and should have made sure to include at least one guy who was better known and who had won senior medals internationally: at that point, the guy was Jeremy Abbott. I just think USFS miscalculated at a crucial transitional point. They signaled to the international community that they didn't have confidence in a guy who was 5th at Worlds in 2010 and who had already won 3 international medals in the 2010-2011 season.

    The Johnny slights by USFS are ubiquitous. If not for his unique talent and perseverance after his 2003 U.S. lp debacle, Johnny would never have had a high level career. Famously he was actually told to his face by someone in the U.S. fed that they weren't planning to help him, when he was trying to make a comeback at regionals and sectionals, prior to 2004 U.S. Nationals.

    Jeremy grabbed his first U.S. title after a strong win at GPF in 2008. Still, Jeremy had to skate his sp at 2009 Nationals very early and directly after Evan skated his sp. Jeremy managed to prove himself and he skated perfectly under those conditions. Perhaps what partly helped Jeremy is that the furor and the focus at that time was still more about Evan vs Johnny (but Johnny was recovering from an illness and got no relief from the judges who seemed unperturbed about pushing him to the wayside, even despite the fact he was the defending World bronze medalist at that time).

    USFS surely were not against rewarding Jeremy at 2009 and 2010 Nats (as the up-and-comer/ late bloomer). Jeremy skated well enough to win overall at 2009 Nationals, whereas Evan faltered just enough to lose. Perhaps it would have been too much to give Evan the championship two years in a row with mistakes. Evan was on his game at 2009 Worlds, taking full advantage of Chan's foot-in-mouth disease. Jeremy did not perform as well and came in 11th again on his second trip to Worlds. Unfortunately, fair to poor Worlds results would become a pattern seemingly hard for Jeremy to break. Of course, it didn't help when he was not given a vote of confidence by USFS in 2011.

    Still we are all just going by our own impressions and perceptions without the benefit of knowing all the details or of walking in these guys' shoes/ skating in their boots.