Who has had a better career- Weir or Abbott

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by mustafinabars, Jan 13, 2013.

?

Who has had the best career of these two guys so far

Poll closed May 28, 2014.
  1. Johnny Weir

    159 vote(s)
    52.8%
  2. Jeremy Abbott

    142 vote(s)
    47.2%
  1. mustafinabars

    mustafinabars Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2012
    Messages:
    98
    Both have 3 U.S titles, and Abbott might win his 4th shortly, or might not. Weir has a single world bronze, but Abbott has the grand prix final gold which I consider bigger than just a bronze at worlds, but Weir also has a few other grand prix final medals and respectable world results even not medalling. Which has had the better career at this point.
     
  2. mustafinabars

    mustafinabars Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2012
    Messages:
    98
    I voted for Weir because he won so many international events.
     
  3. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,172
    medal from worlds > grand prix final gold.
     
  4. DimaToe

    DimaToe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,266
    I think Johnny beats Jeremy so far career wise, If Jeremy can land on some major podiums from now until Worlds 2014 (which I think could be his last comp. as an amateur) then he could surpass Johnny.

    Results:

    Weir:
    - 2 time Olympian(5th in 2006, 6th in 2010)
    -2008 World Bronze medalist (5th in 2004,4th in 2005,7th in 2006, 8th in 2007) 5 appearances so far.
    -1 4CC appearance (4th in 2002)
    -3 time U.S Champion, 2 U.S Silver meals, 2 Bronze medals.
    -2 GPF Bronze medals (Qualified for the GPF 5 times)
    -11 GP medals (4 gold)
    -Junior world champion

    Abbott:
    -1 Time Olympian(9th in 2010)
    -Highest placement at worlds was 5th (11th in 2008 and 2009. 8th in 2012) 4 appearances so far.
    -Two time 4CC bronze medalist.
    -3 time U.S Champion, 3 Pewter medals.
    -1 GPF Gold (Qualified for GPF 3 times)
    -8 GP medals (3 gold)
    -Never competed as a junior internationally.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2013
    Vash01 and (deleted member) like this.
  5. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2003
    Messages:
    2,612
    Weir may have had the better results, but his career peaked earlier.

    Although he was less consistent, Jeremy also included much more difficult content than Johnny.
     
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  6. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2012
    Messages:
    2,288
    I voted for Johnny, only because a World Medal Jeremy does not have, and that to me speaks volumes.

    That said, Jeremy Abbott remains as my all-time favorite American men skater e-v-e-r, hands down, HE combines exquisite artistry with technical precision, hands down. :respec:
     
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  7. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    25,881
    Johnny had more success at worlds (bronze medal) and higher placements at the Olympics than Jeremy. So he is my choice.
     
  8. michiruwater

    michiruwater Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2006
    Messages:
    9,206
    I'm surprised they're tied. I really don't like Johnny at all and yet I still think he obviously has had a better career than Abbott. He's had much better placements on the biggest stages - Worlds and the Olympics. I don't think GPF gold is anywhere close to a Worlds medal or top 5 at the Olympics.
     
  9. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,520
    I don't know how you compare them at this stage.

    In skating, worlds and nationals are so important (Euros are also important). For the skaters vying for hall of fame type accolades, 4CC or GPs matter less if at all. GPs and GPFs are basically footnotes because skating is a sport where people are tested most when everybody available is in the game. Johnny did finish 5th, 4th, and 3rd at respective Worlds, with two top six Olympic finishes. This record puts him ahead.

    Johnny is the more famous, so he has that subjective aura of being the more accomplished one.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2013
  10. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2008
    Messages:
    3,290
    Also adding that Abbott has landed a clean quad in competition on 9 different occasions (2008 4CC LP, 2008 Worlds SP, 2008 Worlds LP, 2009 World Team Trophy LP, 2009 Skate Canada LP, 2010 Nationals LP, 2011 GPF LP, 2012 Nationals LP, & 2012 Worlds LP) while Weir never landed a clean quad in competition. It is true that Jeremy was/is attempting much more difficult technical content and transition/choreographic content in his programs than Johnny ever did.
     
  11. jlai

    jlai Title-less

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Messages:
    8,913
    Johnny has a far better career as of this point, and not just because of medals. He had skated reasonably well under enormous pressure in many events even when he didn't medal (5th at 2004 worlds which was his debut worlds, top six at 2 Olympics, and no less than 8th at 5 world championships, and last but not least, bronze at 2008 "saving the event", so to speak, for the US team).

    Jeremy's big accomplishment was being the first US man to win gpf. But Johnny has a much better track record during his career overall. (And I like Jeremy)
     
  12. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    25,881
    If you are just counting the number of quads landed in competitions, a few other skaters that never were even close to winning a world medal could surpass Weir. He was really a 6.0 skater, and as long as the COP had not yet fully developed, he did very well. Jeremy has more of the COP choreography- more transitions and footwork (instead of just one footwork sequence which the 6.0 skaters did). However, the career of a skater has to be measured by how he/she did internationally, and Johnny did better (in spite of his discomfort with the COP) than Jeremy did at the two biggest competitions - worlds and Olympics. If Jeremy medals at worlds this year, and wins a top 5 placement at the 2014 Olympics, I will move him ahead of Weir, but as of now, Weir had a more successful career.
     
  13. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2008
    Messages:
    3,290
    Fortunately, not everyone bases the value of a career simply on placements. I much rather prefer to watch Abbott instead of Weir any day. Jeremy's programs are always gems while I've found many of Johnny's programs to be duds. JMO.
     
  14. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    25,881
    Since the question was about a career, I had to use the placements. Otherwise you can have a beautiful skater that consistently underperforms when it counts, and in my book that is not the 'better' career if you are comparing him/her with someone with better success on a bigger stage. If you are comparing exhibitions or pros, that criterion won't work, but if we are comparing eligible skating, I treat it like a sport, where winning matters. I loved Johnny's 6.0 programs. They were lyrical, with great basic skating skills. I enjoy Jeremy's skating, but I don't like to see him fall all over the place at worlds.
     
  15. michiruwater

    michiruwater Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2006
    Messages:
    9,206
    I vastly prefer to watch Jeremy Abbott. I can't stand Johnny Weir. And as I said before, I still think Johnny has had a much, much better career in the skating world. He had better placements, he's much more famous, and his legacy is going to amount to much more than Abbott's. Abbott has been a huge disappointment, career-wise, IMO.
     
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  16. jlai

    jlai Title-less

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Messages:
    8,913
    The question is about who has a better career. So my vote is for Weir.
    If the question is who I like or who is a more complete skater, then my answer will be different. :)
     
    halffull and (deleted member) like this.
  17. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    13,479
    LOL neither of them will have any kind of "legacy" in the sport.
     
  18. michiruwater

    michiruwater Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2006
    Messages:
    9,206
    Condescending as always, judgejudy.
     
  19. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2002
    Messages:
    4,405
    You strike me as such a narrow minded person.

    I disagree that Weir will leave more of a legacy. He has more medals and also more fame because of his off-ice persona, but IMO Abbott's body of work is about 1023687423945 times more interesting and inspiring. His artistic achievement is HUGE and comparable by only a few.

    BTW, if we are just counting medals and placements, why do we even need a poll like this to begin with? Can't someone just count everything up and let us know? :lol:
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2013
  20. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    13,479
    Really a toss up. I would much rather the Grand Prix final title than a World bronze since it is an actual big title, which Johnny never came close to winning one of. Both have 3 U.S Titles but Jeremy has a good chance to add to that, while Johnny obviously is done. Virtually same # of grand prix wins. Johnny much better World and Olympic placings overall, even if almost always out of the medals as well. I would say Jeremy by a bit, but it really is a toss up. It is not like comparing Lysacek to either one where Evan would be way ahead of the other two, they are at the same level really. If it was who is the better skater ignoring achievements I would say Jeremy hands down.
     
  21. jlai

    jlai Title-less

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Messages:
    8,913
    speaking of legacy, I think Weir is the first US gay skater to marry while being Olympic eligible?
     
  22. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    13,479
    It is pretty much impossible to lose your Olympic elgibility these days isnt it?
     
  23. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,520
    Emanuel Sandhu has a GPF title (beating Plushenko!), and he is not remembered as a decorated skater. Olympics and Worlds placements along with Nationals and Europeans are where the pressure is greatest, where everyone attempts to bring their A+ game, and where reputations are cemented. I think Johnny making top six at the Olympics twice plus a world bronze and 4th mark him above Jeremy at this point.

    This is very legally true. One wonders if any famous USA skaters had unofficial (or semi-official) husbands while competing who were kept hidden behind the scenes. There is one retired skater about whom many of us are curious, but since he remains to my knowledge a bachelor whose private life is not discussed, I won't speculate.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2013
  24. sadya

    sadya Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    426
    In Grand Prix competitions, you never have all the excellent skaters in one competition, often not even in the GPF, while at Worlds almost every excellent skater is competing. To me Worlds counts more than a GP or even a GPF. Not that it doesn't mean anything to win a GP or GPF, just not as much as Worlds (or Olympics, though to me a skater who has been able to win many World Championships is a better competitor - which isn't always the same as a better skater - than someone who won an Olympics, because I think it's more difficult to win so many times, even though an Olympics is of course the highest honour).
     
    TheIronLady and (deleted member) like this.
  25. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    2,020
    I voted for Johnny
     
  26. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    5,034
    I prefer to watch Pechalat/Bourzat, Cappellini/Lanotte and the Kerrs (when they were still competing) over Davis and White, whose programs and skating I strongly dislike. Yet I wouldn't argue that Davis and White have had a poorer career than those teams because of my personal preferences. Johnny has had a longer, more accomplished career than Jeremy by most standards, so he'd be my choice.
     
    TheIronLady and (deleted member) like this.
  27. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2003
    Messages:
    2,612
    I would consider winning a GPF pretty spectacular.

    Firstly, you need to qualify or be invited to two Grand Prix Series Events, win or place against the best skaters in the world, and win the final against the other medalists from their two combined Grand Prix Series Events. That's having to peak three times in six weeks, which is tough for any elite athlete.
     
  28. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    5,034
    Like any competition, sometimes it's more spectacular than others. Abbott did skate very well at the 2008-9 GPF and at the Cup of China, but he was not spectacular in the Cup of Russia, and the level of competition at the GPF that season wasn't great, IIRC.
     
  29. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2003
    Messages:
    2,612
    The flipside being that with Weir's world bronze, he only placed 5th in the long program.
     
  30. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    12,454
    In term of results, I'd say Weir.
    But my favorite skating is by Jeremy Abbott :)
     
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.