Who had better career- Delobel & Schoenfelder or Belbin & Agosto

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by judgejudy27, May 23, 2010.

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Better career- Delobel & Schoenfelder or Belbin & Agosto

  1. Delobel & Schoenfelder

    33.2%
  2. Belbin & Agosto

    66.8%
  1. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    This isnt a poll so much about which you feel is the better team but which do you believe had the better career. Belbin & Agosto won nearly all their head to head meetings with Delobel & Schoenfelder it seemed and had the edge in many ways- more grand prix event wins, many more World medals, an Olympic medal. However Delobel & Schoenfelder had the edge of winning a World title, Grand Prix final title, and a European title, whereas the biggest thing Belbin & Agosto actually won was Four Continents and their own Nationals. So which team do you believe had the better career.
     
  2. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't call a silver at the Olympics swiss cheese. Comparing B&A to D&S is a lot like comparing Kwan to Lipinski. Lipinski had some great highlights, but Kwan definitely had more of a sustained high career. Ditto with B&A.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2010
  3. attyfan

    attyfan Well-Known Member

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    I would have to go with B/A, as they were also close to barrier breakers for other US ice dancers -- as they were the first US ice dancers to medal at Worlds in 20 years and the first to medal at Olys in 30 years.
     
  4. azskatefan

    azskatefan New Member

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    If we're talking about careers, not just a single season, Belbin & Agosto hands down. I think they changed ice dancing in a way that Delobel & Schoenfelder did not.
     
  5. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    Is there a specific reason for which you want to compare these particular two couples, judgejudy?
     
  6. MikiAndoFan#1

    MikiAndoFan#1 Well-Known Member

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    Tanith & Ben without a doubt.
     
  7. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    No particular reason. I just thought it was interesting comparision since one almost always came out ahead when the two met and won many more medals, and the other one despite so often not winning medals won the Worlds and the Grand Prix final (plus beating that years and the previous years World Champions to win Europeans) while the other despite all they achieved didnt have one major win really. I am a fan of both teams btw.
     
  8. Carmen Ovsiannikov

    Carmen Ovsiannikov New Member

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    I agree with azskatefan. If we are going soley by medals/competitions won then it would have to be B&A.

    If we were able to add in other factors then the answer probably wouldn't be nearly as clearcut (IMO).
     
  9. pumba

    pumba New Member

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    I vote for B/A, because they started getting medals at a younger age, when D/S got theirs in their late 20s.
     
  10. cheriepopo

    cheriepopo New Member

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    my first thought was B/A, but after looking at their career record I found they had NEVER won a major title(I don't think 4CC is a major event...), while D/S had won worlds, europeans and GPF, the only short for them is that they don't have an Olympic medal though that's what B/A have. And I think as a dance team, D/S own more love from fans than B/A. Tanith and Ben are both adorable persons but I don't think there're many people care about their skating, especially those non-American skating fans...
     
  11. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    Of course, I prefer Delobel and Schoenfelder, by far. They are amazing ice dancers, one of the best team ever, in term of skating skills.
    But considering the talent of Belbin and Agosto (or lack of :p , compared to Delshoes !), they had the best career they could have had.
     
  12. mia joy

    mia joy New Member

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    What is your definition of a better career anyway?

    B/A are nothing close to D/S IMHO. It's just not the same kind of ice dance team. However, they have been on top for a long time and have won many, many different medals, including the Olympic silver (had it been judged fairly, D/S would have won a medal in Torino as well, though). But, as many people have already said, they haven't won a major title, which D/S managed to do.

    I guess I'm with briancoogaert here - B/A had a magnificent career considering they haven't actually shown anything spectacular, just some fine dances. Their career was, let's say, easy and pleasant, while Isabelle and Olivier had to fight for a very long time until they were finally awarded places they actually deserved. Them winning Worlds in 2008 was one of the most beautiful victories in FS I've seen, knowing what a long and difficult journey they had to take before that.

    So, I guess if you define better career by who had better achievements in general, I wouldn't know which team to choose, considering many medals without the gold in the case of B/A and less medals but including golds in the case of D/S. We have Worlds' gold against Olympic silver here and it's very hard to choose. If you define it by who had achievements corresponding to their skills (or even better achievements than skills), I choose B/A. However, if you define it by who's made bigger impact on FS, who had better quality dances, who had more loving fans, it's D/S.
     
  13. MikiAndoFan#1

    MikiAndoFan#1 Well-Known Member

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    Who earned more medals, perhaps?

    Here are the medals both couples earned, excluding national championships.

    Tanith & Ben: 38 medals (18 gold, 14 silver and 6 bronze). They won their first GP in 2003, four World medals (first medal in 2005), six-time 4CC medalists (gold in 2004, 2005 and 2006), three-time GPF medalists and Olympic silver medalists.

    Isabelle & Olivier: 29 medals (10 gold, 9 silver, 10 bronze). They won their first GP in 2007, one World medal (gold in 2008), three-time European medalists (gold in 2007), two-time GPF medalists (gold in 2008).
     
  14. shallwedansu

    shallwedansu New Member

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    If I were in their place, I would much rather be remembered as part of D/S than B/A. So I choose D/S as having the better career.
     
  15. vivika1982

    vivika1982 Well-Known Member

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    There is no point in comparing both teams but I am voting for B/A. It is not because of the amount of medals but for their charismatic style .And for some D/S may have more impact on FS but to be honest the only program that i can call memorable is "Frida" and i like almost all B/A programs .Besides D/S had their chance to shine as France #1 team after A/P retired but they never had the great succes of Marina and Gwendal .Why is that ?But please don't give me the judging underestimating theory again.Yes they had originality/thanks to Zazoui/ but i prefer P/B voidiness ,yes they had skills/ but always made mistakes/ and considering Isabelle's lack of expression untill 2004-2005, we had the answer in front of our eyes the whole time but everyone roots for the underdog and everyone was happy when they won the gold medal at EC and WC/myself included/.
    B/A were criticized many times about Tanith's skating and etc. but they had the expression and their own style that was like a fresh air and i don't think they have less fans.So there you go ,pure math or not Tanith and Ben got my vote.
     
  16. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    I tend to agree with this.. when I think about ice dancing in the last ten years, it's the programs of Belbin & Agosto that I remember above anyone else's.
     
  17. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    What style ? Their only interesting program was their Elvis tribute. The rest had no style, looked old fashion and without inspiration. Just over-layed in term of facial expressions. That is why they didn't have the gold medals, IMO. :eek:

    And about Delshoes, the lack of expression was from Olivier, not Isabelle. :rolleyes:
     
  18. *Carol*

    *Carol* New Member

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    "Their only interesting program was their Elvis tribute. The rest had no style, looked old fashion and without inspiration. Just over-layed in term of facial expressions" can someone tell this to Igor and Maria??? cuz they do that for all their teams including D/W and V/M.
     
  19. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I was going to go with D&S since they did have those couple big wins but then when I thought about it more I concluded Belbin & Agosto's Olympic silver is worth about equal to a World title. One of their many World medals is still atleast equal to the Grand Prix final title which while nice isnt that big a deal. Another of their World medals is atleast equal to the European title of D&S. And after all that is done Belbin & Agosto still have 2 more World medals (D&S are now run dry) and many other superior achievements. So I went with B&A despite that I do think a small part of them would trade anything just for 1 World title win which eluded them.
     
  20. icedance21

    icedance21 New Member

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    Delobel & Schoenfelder win with me because being World & European Champions trumps having an Olympic silver, two world silvers, and two world bronzes. I also don't think an Olympic silver is about equal to a world title. It's still a runner-up medal. I'd rather have a world title and no Olympic medals, but that's just me.
     
  21. MikiAndoFan#1

    MikiAndoFan#1 Well-Known Member

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    True. I understand why an Olympic medal is special, but I don't understand why some people consider an Olympic medal harder to achieve than a World a medal. The athletes compete against the same people at both the Olympics and Worlds. In the end, all that matters is what happens in one particular night.
     
  22. David21

    David21 Well-Known Member

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    Delobel&Schoenfelder. World Champions. 'Nuff said.



    Not in a positive way, I might add :EVILLE:
     
  23. mia joy

    mia joy New Member

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    "charismatic style"? really? I mean, I know we're all free to like what we like, but at this point I'm really curious about your definition of charisma, coz I have the impression we understand it totally differently... :p

    I can't believe you actually like only one dance by D/S. I mean, I tended to fall even for their CDs! :cool: I remember their tango CD from few seasons ago... oh my, that was really something. Sparkles all around. They were the kind of team who could even make a CD look stunning, special and entertaining. And that's an ability only few have.
     
  24. vivika1982

    vivika1982 Well-Known Member

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    :p Ok ,we obviously look with different eyes and yes they are charming and always skated with passion and joy .Ever since someone quoted Natalia Linichuk coment about them not having a style people started repeating it, but can someone tell me why the choreography of their 2009 and 2010 OD's are similar to their early programs /not in a good way/ and how many Ice Dance teams have their trade mark programs /besides P/B, R/K,A/P , DenSta, K/K/ I don't want to get in argument, it is just pointless because as many heads as many opinions .I apreciate D/S as hard working and innovative and already gave my reasons why they are not my cup of tea.Yes , honestly i liked only "Frida" and some of their Gala programs .I admit that they have good skating skills and innovative lifts but without connection between them and the right expression it looks like high level exercise not like ice dance and forgive me for saying this but the only spakles i noticed were coming from their costumes .As for WC title i was relieved that they won but it wasn't exactely an exciting" :cheer: YES" it was more of ":yawn:Finally" because they were the last one from their league competing with younger teams and i believe the 2007 EC gold medal was their real victory .
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2010
  25. mia joy

    mia joy New Member

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    why, because they won with Denkova/Stavisky? They already won with them at 2006 Olys. And actually I didn't like their free dance from that season too much (I mean Isa&Oli's). That is why their 2008 world title was so amazing - because won in a beautiful style with a stunning FD. I don't want it to sound offensive towards you, cause I know many people think this way, but i really don't get why so few people ever noticed what a masterpiece "the Piano" was. I will never ever understand the crazy people who awarded K/N's devil/witch/whatever FD with bigger appaluse than the Piano in Zagreb. I mean, I was there and it left me in a permanent shock. I seriously felt like shouting "what is wrong with you people?!" at them :p

    but anyway, aaah, the tastes... :p it's amazing how different people can see the same things in such different ways, isn't it? ;)
     
  26. dinakt

    dinakt Well-Known Member

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    I voted Delobel/ Schoenfelder because I think a career is ultimately determined by the quality, memorability and execution of the programs. I know I'll be re- watching many D/S programs as the years go by- starting with Frida all the way to Jacques Brel, with the Piano and Pink Floyd in- between, among others. Of course, it is a very subjective criteria.
     
  27. vivika1982

    vivika1982 Well-Known Member

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    Soo true .
    Now , i believe their 2007 won is more valuable because they were great in CD,OD and FD ,not because they competed with Albena and Max and this coming from DenSta fan should mean something don't you agree :) ? As for both FD's - for me "Bonny and Clyde" was more refreshing and exciting than "The Piano" .But this is Just my"Arm chair fan" Humble Opinion which again gets us to the point that we all vote according to our tastes :) and i value each vote for D/S and B/A. BTW the fact that there is a thread for those teams means they both have a big impact on Ice Dance and figure skating. :respec:
     
  28. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    Belgosto is my choice.

    I never really got into Delschoes skating. I first saw them live at 2005 Skate America, and I didn't know who they were (I admit it, I wasn't much of a dance fan back then). I watched the OD and was really shocked they were placed so high. They seem like really charming people, and I really liked some of their moves, but the height difference always bothered me. Lots of people will disagree with me, but I think B/A had far better skating skills.
     
  29. robinhood

    robinhood Active Member

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    :cool::) Yeah, I can disagree with you, skateboy
     
  30. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    Of course you can! Hell, if we all agreed with one another on this board we'd having some pretty boring discussions, wouldn't we? ;)