Which years from 1980-1989 would Jill have won Worlds with her 1990 performances

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by judgejudy27, Jun 16, 2010.

  1. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    An interesting thing to wonder is which previous years of the decade prior would Jill Trenary have been able to win with her 1990 Worlds performances.

    Here would be my take:

    1980- Under 1980 scoring hard to say. I am pretty sure Poetzsch was much better than Jill in figures. Poetzsch and Fratianne both did double-double combinations like Jill in the short I think. In the long Poetzsch was rather weak, so Jill would have easily outpointed her there. Would she have been able to catch up to Poetzsch's figures lead to win?

    1981- I dont think she would have beaten Denise here.

    1982- This years was a mess, she probably had a good shot to win this year with her 1990 performances.

    1983- I doubt she wins this year. Sumners at her peak was probably better at figures, and Jill's short program in 1990 was much worse than Sumners in 83 which only placed 4th in the short.

    1984 Olympics or Worlds- I doubt she beats Witt. She never beat Witt at figures when they competed head to head, and Jill's short program from the 1990 Worlds would place really low in the fields this year.

    1985 Worlds- definitely no.

    1986 Worlds- definitely no.

    1987 Worlds- definitely no.

    1988 Worlds- Same comments as 1984.

    1989 Worlds- She wouldnt have won in 1989 even with her 1990 long program, despite a much better short program in 89 than 1990.

    So I think 1980 and 1982 are the only years really she would have won with her 1990 winning performances.
  2. michiruwater

    michiruwater Well-Known Member

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    Why is it that you enjoy speculation so much?
  3. MikiAndoFan#1

    MikiAndoFan#1 Well-Known Member

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    :D
  4. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    To make a point that Jill Trenary sucks? That is what this thread seriously sounds like, anyway.

    :p
  5. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

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    This is an difficult question to answer because judges will often mark skaters, not only based on their content, but relative to the competition.

    Who knows how the other skaters would have performed with Jill along side them.

    But, with the exodus of name skaters after the Olympics, 1981 or 1985 would have been her best shot at winning. In 1981, Biellmann doubled her combination in the short, and in 1985, the top three (Witt, Chin and Ivanova) all did a triple toe as their combination.

    Though Jill's rise to the top started in the Witt / Thomas / Kadavy / Manley years, it is unfortunate that the removal of figures hampered her potential.

    My favourite Trenary programs were her free skate from the 1988 U.S. Nationals, and her short program from the 1987 Worlds.
  6. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    Why the negativity here? It's the off-season, folks. Nothing wrong with a little speculation...

    I don't know how to compare Jill's figures with previous skaters, so who knows if she was as good as Poetzsch and others... I'd say she'd win in 1980, 1982, 1983, and maybe 1986... she did have a triple flip and better presentation than Debi.
  7. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    Denise landed a triple lutz in her LP in 1981-in fact, Jill would have had a hard time beating Elaine in 2nd place. The Zayak rule was not yet in place.

    Denise's LP 1981
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucCMZffihRA
    Denise SP 1981
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jnAV2bVBcY

    Elaine's LP 1981
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdHorxKW-mw

    Katarina's SP 1981 to The Muppet Show
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko71UFJpvME

    How was Jill at putting the 2Lp in combinations? That was required in 1981 in the SP.
    In 1982 the hot combo was 2F3T (Elaine fell,but Katarina landed it)

    In fact, I don't remember Trenary having a 3T in the second jump, a common thing in the top 4 or 5 free skaters of the early 1980's.

    The rules were just not the same.

    It's really hard to say how Jill would have done.
  8. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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  9. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

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    Trenary did have her trademark one foot axel - triple salchow, so she is definitely capable of landing a double - triple combo.

    Also, I believe she attempted a double loop - triple toe at the 88 Olympic trials before replacing her combination with the triple flip - double loop in Calgary.
  10. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    I had the impression that we were talking about in the SP, and the Colledge-3S combo can not be modified to conform to any SP rules. Jill would have needed to have a 3T, 3Lp, or the most unlikely counter rotated 3Lz as the 2nd jump in a combo. I do not think she ever performed any of those as a 2nd jump.

    I give you that she had the Split Flip-3T, but that probably only amounted to the 3F-2T she used in her 1987 SP.
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2010
  11. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    You have to consider all 3 phases of the competition though, not just the free skating. I would agree it is very possible Trenary's free skate from the 1990 Worlds could have beaten Thomas's free skate at the 1986 Worlds. However I dont see how she would have beaten her overall. Witt with a mistake on her combo finished 4th in the short, while Thomas was 1st in the short. Trenary was never competitive with a clean Witt in the short program phase even when she landed a triple flip combo, so if Witt was 4th with a mistake on an attempted triple to combo, Trenary with a double toe-double toe combo would be buried bigtime in the short. And in figures we know she not only never beat Thomas, but even Witt (3rd in figures that year). All in all she would do well to beat Chin overall for the bronze.
  12. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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  13. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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  14. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    I don't know. I always assumed it was Gloria Estefan ;)

    . . . Oooo, wait. In 1990, her LP was to house music with lots of shoulder action and her SP was to cool jazz :yawn:
  15. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Jill's music cuts and posey choreogarphy got increasingly strange as the years went by. You almost began laughing at some of them. It is a shame as she was capable of being a beautiful artist with better choreography.
  16. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    Very nice. She used the same program for her 1987 Nats win, but added the triple flip. (Stepped out of a 3Salchow and single a double axel, though.)
  17. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    PML ! She hardly won the 1990 Worlds and you want her to win in the 80's with her 1990 performances.
    That's weird !