Which of these jump "firsts" was the most significant and impressive?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Maofan7, Jan 15, 2013.

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Which of these jump "firsts" was the most significant and impressive?

Poll closed Feb 15, 2013.
  1. Brandon Mroz - First Quad Lutz

    1 vote(s)
    0.6%
  2. Miki Ando - First and only Quad Jump (4S) by a Lady

    8 vote(s)
    5.2%
  3. Kurt Browning - First Quad Jump (4T)

    24 vote(s)
    15.5%
  4. Donald Jackson - First Triple Lutz

    5 vote(s)
    3.2%
  5. Vern Taylor - First Triple Axel

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Grzegorz Filipowski - First Triple-Triple Combination

    1 vote(s)
    0.6%
  7. Dick Button - First Double Axel & First Triple Jump (3R)

    47 vote(s)
    30.3%
  8. Cecilia Colledge - First Double Jump (2S) by a Lady

    3 vote(s)
    1.9%
  9. Petra Burka - First Triple Jump (3S) by a Lady

    2 vote(s)
    1.3%
  10. Midori Ito - First 3A by a Lady & First Triple-Triple Combination by a Lady

    60 vote(s)
    38.7%
  11. Denise Biellmann - First Triple Lutz by a Lady

    1 vote(s)
    0.6%
  12. Elvis Stojko - First Quad Jump in Combination (4T+2T)

    3 vote(s)
    1.9%
  1. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Member

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    Which of the following jump "firsts" (performed in competition) was the most significant and impressive in figure skating history (singles skating only)?:-

    Brandon Mroz - First Quad Lutz (2011 Colorado Springs Invitational). Later, landed it in international competition at the 2011 NHK Trophy

    Miki Ando - First and only Quad Jump (4S) by a lady (2002–2003 Junior Grand Prix Final)

    Kurt Browning - First Quad Jump (4T - 1988 World Championships)

    Donald Jackson - First Triple Lutz (1962 World Championships)

    Vern Taylor - First Triple Axel (1978 World Championships)

    Grzegorz Filipowski - First Triple-Triple Combination (3T+3T) - 1980

    Dick Button - First Double Axel (1948 Olympics) and First Triple Jump (Loop) - 1952 Olympics

    Cecilia Colledge - First Double Jump (2S) by a Lady - 1936 European Championships

    Petra Burka - First Triple Jump (3S) by a Lady - 1962 Canadian Nationals

    Midori Ito - First Triple Axel by a Lady (Aichi Prefecture Regional Competition 1988, then for the first time internationally at the 1988 NHK Trophy) and First Triple-Triple Combination by a Lady (3T+3T - 1982 World Junior Championships)

    Denise Biellmann - First Triple Lutz by a Lady (1978 European Championships)

    Elvis Stojko - First Quad Jump in Combination (4T+2T - 1991 World Championships)
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
  2. A.H.Black

    A.H.Black Well-Known Member

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    Dick's triple loop for me. He actually had a press conference about doing it beforehand as he wanted to make sure the judges realized it was a triple and didn't mistake it for a double. I think that jump ushered in modern figure skating.

    I once got the opportunity to ask Dick about that loop. I wanted to know why he chose a loop rather than a toe loop or salchow. I'm paraphrazing, but he mentioned Roger Banister breaking the 4-minute-mile and how within several weeks many other runners had also broken that barrier. Dick had it in mind that he didn't want everyone being able to duplicate his feat within weeks.

    - I find it interesting that the last triple jump to be done for the first time was the toe-loop.

    - I think David Jenkins first triple axel ever (1960 Olympic exhibition) would be second on my list and more impressive (just for being so far ahead of his time) than Vern Taylor's 3-axel (first in competition).
     
  3. maatTheViking

    maatTheViking Now ubering Machida's hair

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    I'm going with Dick Button as well. Today, the ability to do double axels and triple jumps is what separates national level from international level - at least in most countries where the talent isn't so deep.
     
  4. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    I have to go with Cecelia because her jump content matched the men of the time.

    ETA: I do have to admit that it is a miracle that Midori kept her 3/3 from 1981 to the end of her career and added a 3A.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
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  5. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Clearly Dick Button's athleticism ushered in modern figure skating. So while Dick's accomplishments were probably the most significant and had perhaps the greatest impact on the sport, I think Midori's first 3-axel for a lady and first 3/3 for a lady are the most impressive accomplishments. I started to vote for Dick, but ended up voting for Midori in this poll.
     
  6. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Had to go for Midori. It wasn't so much the actual jump she did but the quality of it, even compared to the men. I still think she is one of the best jumpers ever. Even Christopher Dean predicted at 1988 Olympics that she would be the first woman to do the 3A.
     
  7. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    I'm leaning toward voting for Uncle Dick for the reasons stated above, but I'm also thinking of Jackson's triple lutz because it took more than a decade for anyone else to do that jump in competition. It's also worth noting that Jackson's triple lutz was the first triple toe jump of any kind to be landed in competition. The first triple toe loop was still two years away, and the first triple flip wasn't landed until well into the 1970's.
     
  8. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    There are many deserving candidates on this list, but I picked Midori because ladies were not supposed to do jumps that even many men did not do. Hamilton won his OGM without a 3A. Just 5 years later Midori landed the first 3A by a lady, and only a handful of ladies have been able to that feat since. It immediately raised the bar for ladies, technically. Even though Denise Biellman landed the first 3lutz (not a small feat), she did not revolutionize ladies figure skating, they way Midori did.
     
  9. floskate

    floskate Vacant

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    David Jenkins did a triple flip at the 1958 Worlds in Paris. I think the reason that no one talks about this is that no one really knew but skating world magazine corroborates this IIRC.
     
  10. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    If I was being objective, I might say Dick Button set the world of gymnastic jumping on ice in motion.

    I'd vote for Mao landing three triple axels in one competition, but it doesn't fit Floskate's emphasis. I voted Ito because it was exciting on many levels, and she, like Elaine Zayak, changed the ladies jumping game.

    Kwan had a similar effect with her seven triple programs I think, but I don't think any ladies besides these four have made quite the radical impact.
     
  11. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    I voted for Stojko, although I am far from a fan.

    Almost went for Dick Button, but it seems that, while his triple loop was a huge accomplishment in 1952, not that many skaters followed suit right away. Same with Midori's triple axel: amazing accomplishment, but all these years later, how many ladies are doing it?

    With Stojko, he put it out there and then practically all the guys were trying it. Still are. So I chose him as being the most influential.
     
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  12. floskate

    floskate Vacant

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    My emphasis? :confused: Anyway Ito, - along with the first 3-3 and 3A was also the first woman to do a 7 triple LP at the 1988 Olympics. She'd been doing 6 triple LP's since 1982. :)
     
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  13. sadya

    sadya Active Member

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    I think they were all amazing. Of course Button was the one who changed figure skating the most imho. Yet even after that people became used to seeing those moves and then the next new first became very exciting, only for most people becoming used to seeing that on the ice as well. So then the next new first often becomes the most exciting.

    I really began watching figure skating around 1994, knowing nothing about it's history and not knowing much about figure skating itself even. I still remember the excitement of our Eurosport commentator and the audience during Worlds '94 when Stoyko completed a quad in combination. It seemed like nothing else that amazing had ever been done before on the ice. Then one day I found books and a documentary about skating, only to realise there had been other amazing accomplishments decades before that which in those days were equally as exciting as a quad combination in the '90s.
     
  14. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    WOW, I don't know !
    I'd say Dick Button's 3Loop because it was the first triple, and 60 years later, triple jumps are still the most seen jumps.
    But Midori Ito is extraordinary, because she did so many great 3Axel, and 23 years later, it seems no other women can do such an impressive 3Axel !
     
  15. DarrellH

    DarrellH New Member

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    Dick Button. He showed that a triple could be done.
     
  16. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    The history of the flip, including the first triple flip in competition, is apparently one of the great mysteries of figure skating. Here's what Wikipedia has to say:

    Wikipedia doesn't cite any source in connection with its reference to Jenkins.

    Oddly, Jackson's own webpage on the subject of jumping firsts omits any reference to flips. Perhaps that's because he himself isn't sure whether he was the first person to land a triple flip in competition.

    I'm still thinking of voting for Jackson. Decisions, decsions! :judge: :COP:
     
  17. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    I don't see how Kwan's 7-triples programs had an impact. I think Midori, Kristi, Tonya had already done 7-triples programs. I agree with the rest of your post, however. It's very hard to pick one from this poll, so I may vote for a different skater each time. Stojko's impact cannot be denied. They actually changed the rules for mens SP and allowed a quad jump and later quad jump combination in the SP, because Stojko inspired many other men to consistently land that jump, and even made the quad combination fairly common.

    It's hard for me to judge the impact of the older skaters who landed the first triple, first double axel, etc. because it was so far away, but I am sure at that time it had a huge impact. The fact that it has become a non-topic shows the extent to which skaters like Button, Taylor changed the sport.

    To a smaller extent, I would give Brian Orser credit for including two triple axels in his LP. He challenged others to do that and raised the level of the sport.
     
  18. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    Well, Zayak had also done at least one 7-triple program, but as far as I know Ito was the first to do so legally under the "Zayak rule" restrictions.

    Kwan didn't have any "firsts" in this regard. She certainly was extremely consistent at performing 7-triple programs, compared to the rest of the ladies field, and did as much as anyone to solidify the expectation of that kind of jump content as the standard. But more than that, what allowed her to win so often and medal even more often, even when she didn't complete all her planned triples, was combining that jump content with above-average spins and good-to-great skating skills and presentation. I.e., she was both well-rounded and consistent with high-level jump content. But not a pioneer in jump content, which is what this thread is about.
     
  19. falling_dance

    falling_dance IMVHOTINHAAOIWBDATIITW

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    Was Kwan the first ladies' singles skater to land nine triples cleanly at the World level (SP + FS)?
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2013
  20. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    I'd say Midori Ito's 3A was more impressive but I voted for Kurt's quad as most significant because it seems to be the most talked about, even today and it started the huge trend of men attempting quad jumps. I know there were a few attempting them before Kurt, and Jozef Savodcik landed one deemed UR, but after Kurt did the first ratified one the number really increased. Of course, Elvis Stojko really built on this when he started doing them in combination.
     
  21. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    Cecilia is one of my all-time favorites, but I voted for Midori. Such an innovator!
     
  22. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    Probably. It might depend on how you define "cleanly" and "at the World level."

    1994-95 was the first year that women were allowed to do two triples in the short program. I think Kwan was the only lady at Worlds who succeeded in doing that and also land seven in the freeskate. At least the lutz in the short program would be negative GOE by today's standards (small deductions by SP rules of the time), but it was landed on one foot and seemed to be fully rotated.

    Bonaly also had two triples in the short and seven in the long at Worlds, but she had her hand down on the SP lutz and some of her LP triples were definitely cheated (which was also the case in her 7-triple Euros freeskate; I can't find the Euros SP on youtube).

    As for fall internationals, Irina Slutskaya may have been the first to skate a clean short program with two triples. She was certainly the only skater with a clean SP at 1994 Skate America, and she had also won Nebelhorn, the first international where it was legal, although I don't know offhand exactly how she did with the SP jumps or how many she had in the free there. She definitely missed a lot of jumps in the freeskate at Skate America.
     
  23. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    Linda Fratianne is credited with being the first woman to do two different triples in a LP. It has been stated that Linda made triple jumps mandatory for any serious female skater in the mid-70s.

    Who was the first woman to do a triple in a SP? Linda did an impressive 3s-2L in her 77 SP, but I don't know if she was the first to include a triple as the required combo.


    Uncle Dick was such a pioneer. He and his coach, Mr. Lussi, invented so many of the skating moves that we see today. Skaters back then had such height and power on their jumps. Just look at Dick's 2A: He did it with an open legs position and with complete revolutions.
     
  24. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    Not sure. I think triples were allowed in the ladies' SP starting in the 1974 or 75 season, although I don't know that anyone took advantage of that option. Definitely in 1976 -- the required jump in the combination that year was double flip, and apparently Fratianne and Elena Vodorezeva were planning 2F+3T, although at the Olympics they did 2F+2T like most of the rest of the field.
     
  25. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, I almost want to vote once for significant and go with Dick's envelope-pushing jumps since it really changed the sport going forward. And then another time for impressive because everything about Ito's jumps was jaw-dropping. So much height, ice coverage and flow. Went with Dick in the end.
     
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  26. PUNKPRINCESS

    PUNKPRINCESS New Member

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    It's hard for me to pick between first Triple Axel, first Quad jump, and Midori Ito.
     
  27. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    For me Cecilia because I have read that women were PENALIZED when they showed too much athleticism back in her day-including those jumps which were discouraged for so long for female skaters.
     
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  28. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    I vote for the first triple jump by anybody (Dick Button, 1952, 3 Loop). It moved skating into a whole other era. Once someone had done one triple, it was inevitable skaters would start working on the others and that ladies would do one sooner or later. I don't think the 3A for ladies or quads for men have really made much difference in how skating looks on the ice (and even the most recent OGMs did not do them, and that pretty much defines what is important in skating). l also don't think things like 3-3 combinations made much difference. It has been 20 years or more since Ito's first one and many of the top ladies still aren't doing them.

    Now that I think of it, perhaps the first single axel or first double really is the one that totally redefined skating.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2013
  29. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    Yes, which was only amplified by Sonja Henie not having to be so innovative.

    Cecelia could have easily resigned herself to 2nd place without having been driven to invent the camel spin, then make it flying and catchfoot . . . as well as invent the layback spin and develop the arabesque spiral position, one footed Axel, and 2S. The quality of some of her elements is just shocking when considering that she moved around the ice in the Art Deco style.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2013
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  30. Akira Andrea

    Akira Andrea Well-Known Member

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    I think that the quadruple jump of Miki Ando is most significant and impressive, because she was only one woman who not only succeeded it the first in 2002 but also continued to challenge it till 2008 of the most recent year under new judging system which was adopted from 2004.
    Her quad in 2008 GP final was recognized regrettably as the downgraded quad jump by the judges, but there is not even the woman who was recognized like this except Miki Ando in the history of Ladies in the ISU official competitions under new judging system which was adopted from 2004. Her quad Salchow landed with good flow, of course she did not fall also and did not step out also.

    I think that only one is transcendental to all.

    The protocol of the free skating in 2008 Grand Prix Final: Miki Ando is 5th place.
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpf0809/gpf0809_SeniorLadies_FS_Scores.pdf

    The video of Miki Ando in the free skating in 2008 GP Final: The first jump is the quad Salchow Jump.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2KRWFCiyKA
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2013