Which ladies singles skater has performed the best triple axel in competition so far?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Maofan7, Jan 6, 2013.

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Which ladies singles skater has performed the best triple axel in competition so far?

Poll closed Feb 6, 2013.
  1. Midori Ito

    93 vote(s)
    62.0%
  2. Tonya Harding

    36 vote(s)
    24.0%
  3. Ludmila Nelidina

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Yukari Nakano

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Kimmie Meissner

    2 vote(s)
    1.3%
  6. Mao Asada

    19 vote(s)
    12.7%
  1. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I guess Midori's 3x should be considered of the best overall quality. However, I voted for Tonya because something about Tonya's explosiveness was exciting to me. Her 3x seemed to have more power to it.
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  2. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    Yeah who was the referee at that Nationals for ladies? She/he must have a sense of humor. It was certainly a joke.

    I think officials/USFSA/ABC knew it might be the only time she ever landed it, so the opportunity was then or never to give her that publicity boost.
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  3. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Consistency, shmonsistency. :blah:

    When did Meissner or Nelidina ever have a consistent triple axel?

    My knowledge of (1) Japanese and (2) Japanese ice skating isn't good enough for me to do much investigating, but her ISU profile says, "Sawada has landed triple Axels in national competitions." Apparently, she did it more than once.

    Here is a link to her English-language Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aki_Sawada.

    She competed at Japan Juniors in the 2001-02 and 2002-03 seasons as well as in 2003-04 and twice thereafter. She also competed at Japan Novices in 2000-01 and 2001-02. Presumably, she also competed at some level in Regionals and/or Sectionals prior to October 2004, so there are several competitions at which she might have landed a triple axel. Unfortunately, this was all before the Japanese Federation adopted CoP, so any protocols from those events are not going to be of much use.
  4. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, she was landing them in practice at nationals in 1997. Joanne was also landing 3loop/3loop combinations in practice there as well. Such a shame a knee injury in early 1999 put her out of sorts until 2005.
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  5. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Away

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    Exactly, it remains a mystery. Hopefully, somebody at some point will be able to specify the competition(s) and post some links to some articles/reports on them.
  6. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Lol I see the comment I posted 3 yrs. ago on youtube concerning the aforementioned triple axel video received too many negatives, thus it was marked as spam. *boohoo*

    Anyhow re-posting my original comment in its entirety here. And that's all I have to say about that. :p



    I've been watching this sport since the 70's and IMHO the best I have ever seen are:

    (1) TONYA HARDING - perfect, no leg wrap, phenomenal height & distance, no pre/under rotation issues ever.

    (2) MIDORI ITO - except for the leg wrap, she ties Tonya Harding. These two are the true class of the field, no one touches their power, height, full revolutions.

    (3) MAO ASADA - she's not in the class of the two aforementioned, but she's the closest I've ever seen. She never plays it safe!
  7. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    I saw her attempting and falling on some in practice at 2003 Worlds.
  8. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

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    I was in Edmonton, and Maria was picture perfect. Her 3axels were quite amazing, so good I can't believe she didn't go for it. As easy as a double. That Slute got the bronze was a travesty. Maria was winning the practices, even with Michelle and Lu. Her not placing and having that mess of a Broadway bastardization win the bronze is just so wrong.

    Tonya Harding was way off the circle and had the most crooked axel. Even with her speed and power, it was always off center. She landed it, but it was pretty ugly.

    I will take a leap, and say that Yukari Nakano was way underappreciated. Her axel got around, and she is probably one of the loveliest skaters to ever compete. Was it 2008 where she was just robbed? Everyone in the building knew she won. I prefer Yukari's axel to Mao's. Yukari was not just a strikingly beautiful woman, her skating was striking. I will never understand 2008.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeSwUNLqFkE

    "A champion's performance". And she didn't even medal. My hate for Kostner and her mumbling and stumbling started here.
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
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  9. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed on all of that.
  10. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    She skated with a beautiful spirit, and I feel sad for anyone who missed out on her beauty and her spins just because of her wrap on the lutz and flip. She had a good 3A (without much leg wrap).

    Yukari gets little publicity save for the fact that she's one of the five ladies in the triple axel club. She was robbed by her federation in both 2006 and 2010. She was so obviously the third qualifier for Japan's Olympic contingent in 2006, but the Japan Federation made a nonsense decision that revealed how ashamed they were about sending Miki Ando. They sent Miki to Olympics (as she was their #1 star), and for no official reason (as far as I know) Yukari was elected to Worlds. They did not have to explain why since everyone thought it was because Miki was undeserving of an Olympic assignment and only chosen to satisfy the expectations of sponsors.

    The situation was likewise lamentable in 2010. I think Akiko demonstrated she deserved the Olympic spot. While Miki finished higher than Akiko (somehow), Miki probably should have been left home in favor of Yukari. Miki proved unnecessary and dispensible at both Olympics and Worlds. She couldn't even beat Laura Lepisto at Worlds, probably because nobody liked that drag-inspired Cleopatra mess. So I have no problem declaring that Yukari should have been chosen for 2010 instead of Miki. Shafting or appearing to shaft Nakano twice is not something the JSF should be allowed to live down.

    The federation, and one could start a blog with complaints about them, still does batty things. However, today they seem to understand IJS and the Japanese skaters' potential.
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  11. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    Maria said in interviews circa 1999 that her triple axels always landed on her posterior. She was a strong woman, but it's hard to believe she was close in 1996. Then again, it is hard to believe she was still pulling off all the jumps she did in Vancouver in 2001.
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  12. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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  13. mikemba

    mikemba Active Member

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    Someone characterized the above as spam? I think it's an excellent analysis. I believe that none other than Kristi Yamaguchi would agree with you re: points one and two. She said in an interview that Tonya's triple axel was even more beautiful than Midori's. And Kristi probably saw a lot of triple axels by both Midori and Tonya in practice.

    As for little ol' non-expert me, I think I give a small edge to Midori, but I'm not sure whether I am being unduly influenced by the facts that 1) she was the first, 2) she landed much more of them in competition than did Tonya and 3) she landed them for a much longer time frame than did Tonya.

    But as far as the quality of the jump, I'm torn and need to watch the videos again. It's kind of like choosing between my 2 favorite desserts: both are so fabulous that one day one is my favorite and the next day the other one is. Midori and Tonya were both amazing!
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  14. muffinbiscuit

    muffinbiscuit Member

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    I have seen mention in this thread of "ugly in the air". Is there an actual deduction for this if the jump itself is perfectly taken off, landed, has good speed and height?
  15. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    I think the air position is part of GOE.
  16. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    For the fans that voted Tonya as having the best 3A ..... you guys don't mind that her Axel was always tilted outside of the circle mid-air and had a wide swinging free leg on the landing? It was only through sheer strength that Tonya was able to not lose the revolutions mid-air and hung onto the landing edge. I'm sure the wildness of Tonya's technique contributed to the excitement and Wow factor of her 3A, but I would never classify it as textbook perfect.

    Midori crossed her free leg at the knee or below the knee on her jumps. I wouldn't classify it as a wrap. Claudia Kristofic-Binder and Erin Pearl had true leg wraps, and their jumps appeared small and the revolutions looked slowed in the air. Midori's crossed legs never caused that issue for her.

    --------


    I think Kimmi had good lift into her 3A. The one landed at Nationals was wonky and arguably under-rotated, but the practice footage showed that Kimmi was able to do very nice completed ones.

    The ugliest 3A would have to be Nakano's. She barely got off the ground throughout the whole jump; Her technique diminished the power of the Axel jump.
  17. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    The way the GOE rules currently work, there's a recommended reduction for "Poor speed, height, distance, air position" of -1 to -2, and positive bullet points (recommended two for each +GOE) include

    3) varied position in the air / delay in rotation
    4) good height and distance
    7) effortless throughout


    So if Ito for example achieves positive bullet points 4 and 7 a judge would start out thinking +1 for the jump and then if they consider the air position poor or ugly they could reduce the GOE back to 0. If she also had additional positive points, then the poor air position could make the difference between +2 vs. +1.

    If the only positive aspect were good height and distance, or there was nothing positive aside from the fact that the jump was executed successfully, and if the air position was not just not-ideal but actively bad (e.g., off axis, uncontrolled), then -1 might be appropriate, assuming no other errors.

    Other little problems, e.g., a small jump with a bad air position or a bad air position resulting from a badly skidded takeoff, might end up with -2.
  18. TheGirlCanSkate

    TheGirlCanSkate New Member

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  19. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Active Member

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    I have an old VHS tape somewhere that my coach recorded herself years ago... It's Josee Chouinard landing triple axels in practice, they were amazing and clean! I need to go and find it!
  20. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    The quality of Tonya Harding's 3Lz, which I think was the best ever, was always better than the quality of her 3A. The 3A belonged to Midori.
  21. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    That would be neat if you could convert and upload it. I love Josée and have no doubt that if she landed the 3A it was a great thing to see. I cannot imagine her standing one up in a performance or competitive situation because of her mishaps checking landings.
  22. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I hope Mao gets her 3A back. She is the only lady in recent years to have landed it in competitions.
  23. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    It's so true that Mao's 3A is a model for what ladies can be doing. If it was valued a bit more, it would encourage others too.
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013
  24. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Why would she bother. When she was doing the triple axel she was often getting downgrades on it and other jumps, and the jump layout value even before the deductions was even coming out to lose. Even when she skated well with it at events like Four Continents and Japanese Nationals in 2011 she couldnt even beat someone like Miki Ando. Now she is doing safe programs, no triple-triple tries, often only 3 clean triples, and is getting huge marks and winning every event for the first time in years, so what kind of message does that send to her, LOL! Proof of the vast flaws of the new system.
  25. Lainerb

    Lainerb New Member

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    There was footage of Maria's 3axel during practices at 1996 Worlds on Magic Memories on Ice which was put out back in the 90s. The rotation on it was real good, but it was two footed although I don't' doubt there were clean ones also landed during the practice.

    Between Harding and Ito I guess I'd say that I'd give it to Ito for how many times she landed it as well as the height and distance. Harding's would have been perfect had it not been for the lean.
  26. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed :)
  27. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    The ISU should allow more points for ladies 3A than for mens, because it is so rare. I know it creates some difficulties in scoring, but it shouldn't be too difficult.

    To balance it, may be a man doing a Biellman spin or a layback (true) spin should get more credit than a lady- just kidding. :)
  28. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Re. Aki Sawada:
    I did a search of the FSU Archives and came up with these posts dated June 6-7, 2003:
    My post:
    Bluelutz's post:
    "Like Sylvia wrote, Ota shares the coach, Mie Hamada with Aki Sawada who
    attempted 3A a few times in minor competitions besides Japanese Junior
    nationals last season."

    Miki_tan's post:
    "Aki Sawada(14)'s 3A attempts in late March 2003 competition looked
    closer to land than last fall competition attempts."

    So, still no hard evidence regarding when/where Aki Sawada may have landed a 3A in Japanese competition.
  29. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    That's hilarious. I think the ISU rules should value elements differently for men and women.
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2013
  30. leapfrogonice

    leapfrogonice Active Member

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    Tonya Harding. Skate America 1991. Hands down.
  31. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Lol, actually it wasn't someone, but rather a gaggle of someones that marked it as spam. :lol: Which tickles my funny bone because youtube posters are hilarious, especially when you disagree with them. :D

    Anyhow, I take it all in stride with a grain of salt and a pinch of vinegar thrown in. :cool:

    Back to 3axels! :kickass: I'm a stickler for technique, and a leg wrap is a leg wrap is a leg wrap ad infinitum, no matter how legendary or nice/kind the person doing it is. Doesn't make a bit of difference, it's like the story of the duck, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, then it is a duck. Leg wrap = bad technique. Period.

    Now I want to talk about Mao's 3axel, especially when done perfectly, like here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-sHFceaGEY *replay starts at 4:50, wherein commentator Susie Wynne classifies it as textbook perfect* :hat1:

    So even though Tonya & Midori's 3axels were high and powerful and completedly rotated with no underrotation issues ever, Mao's in comparison make up for it by being elegant, feminine, balletic, tight in the air with legs close together, and lovely. Deceptive power packaged in the body of a ballerina. :oksana1::shizuka1::sasha1::sarah1:


    ps: thanks so much for the story about Kristi's admiration of Tonya's 3axel; I'm not surprised, look at her face when Tonya finishes her program: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdC5G7CDvbI :cool:
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