Which is harder: pre-IJS dance or IJS dance

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by modern_muslimah, Nov 2, 2011.

  1. modern_muslimah

    modern_muslimah Thinking of witty user title and coming up blank

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    Reading the Americanization/Elementization of Ice Dance thread made me wonder which style of dance ice dance fans and especially those familiar with ice dance technik consider to be more difficult. Would D/W or V/M be able to do the iconic dances of U/Z, G/P and vice versa? Is it even possible to compare them in terms of difficulty?
     
  2. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    The real question is about compulsories. Compulsories were of superior quality many years ago.
     
  3. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    Technically, I think today's top teams could execute the earlier dances just fine, but not vice versa. Whether they could express those styles at the same level is another question.

    And I'd second briancoogaert's point about the compulsories.
     
  4. modern_muslimah

    modern_muslimah Thinking of witty user title and coming up blank

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    So I assume you both think that pre-IJS teams were better at compulsories? Why do you think so? Basically, what should non-techniks like myself look for in compulsories? Also, do you think that SD format of the past two seasons makes it more difficult for teams to really do great CDs?
     
  5. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan Well-Known Member

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    Ice dance has been my favourite discipline since I saw the Duchesnays and Klimova&Ponomarenko (on TV) at the 1992 Olympics. I think a team like K&P would fare well under the new system. I also think V&M had excellent compulsories.
    I do think, however, that with the demands of the new system, a lot of teams did not have the time to train their compulsories that they would have had during the old system. The OD and now SD and the FD segments under IJS are packed with difficult elements.
     
  6. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan Well-Known Member

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    I always look at the depth of edge, and whether or not they execute each section with the correct edge, as well as ice coverage, speed and flow. I also pay attention to how close they skate to one another and how secure and comfortable their hold is (I mean to say that it should not look like one partner is using the other partner for balance).
     
  7. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    Compulsories were about trace, unisson, rhythm and control of the edge and of the upper body. That's what is amazing with them.
    New dance teams don't practice anymore for them, that's why they are not as good as before. You can see it in the SD : no good rhythm, not together. They gain speed with power, not by using the blade.
    Watch any CD by Torvill&Dean, and you'll see what I mean : you don't see them pushing, nor forcing, they are amazingly beautiful, together...Torvill and Dean Paso Doble
     
  8. mineko

    mineko New Member

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    Wow...:swoon:
     
  9. DinDonShamu

    DinDonShamu New Member

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  10. modern_muslimah

    modern_muslimah Thinking of witty user title and coming up blank

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    IA. T&D were so smooth and they made the dance look so effortless. D&S, V&M and D&W on the other hand, make the same dance look like more work. I noticed the pushing that Brian referred.
     
  11. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    What is harder today is obviously the lifts and twizzles, in the sense that they could go wrong at any time and the woman could go hurtling towards the ice on a lift, or someone gets sliced by a blade trying to catch a foot, or fall flat on their face on a twizzle, etc.

    In fact I think that's part of the appeal now. There's a sense that you could witness a Dubreuil moment at any time. The falls in the 2006 Olympic OD drew more interest from the media and public than B&A actually winning a medal.

    Pre-IJS, there was far more danger of tripping each other up or colliding with each other becuase FD's then were essentially 4 full minutes of nonstop steps, changing holds, connecting movements, etc that were done very close together. Lifts were more woven into the choreography rather than set up with crossovers. Closeness between the partners and skating in a variety of holds and positions was far more important then than they are now.

    It's just a different beast entirely now. There's danger in the TES elements, but almost no danger outside of them them. Patrick Chan has more of a chance of tripping himself up on his connecting movement than D&W or V&W do, and he doesn't draw as many 10.00s.

    I see what you're saying, but I love the power and bigness of DelSchoe's Paso CD. :swoon:
     
  12. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    I think IJS requires a lot more from both partners. Guys just can't away with presenting their partners any more and do easier stuff. It asks for both partners to demonstrate quality skating skills.
     
  13. mineko

    mineko New Member

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  14. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    LOL ! That's why I'm happy to be a male :D Compulsories are easier for us !
     
  15. nuge

    nuge Well-Known Member

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  16. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    :rofl: Hey that is because they were invented by men!
     
  17. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    And to attract (or lure) men into ice dancing ! lol
    That's also something good to be a man : a lot of ladies are alone and want to dance with you ;)
     
  18. DinDonShamu

    DinDonShamu New Member

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    I hate to confess ... I'm honing up my skating skills precisely for this :D
     
  19. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Well that is why my coach took up ice dancing. It was quite evident one day when he was about to show a group of women the Dutch Waltz. He had 5 women standing around him in a circle and all I could say was "This is the reason why [insert coaches name] took up ice dancing". It made a beautiful picture.
     
  20. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    An example : this dance by Rahkamo & Kokko is not particularly difficult, but I'm sure few skaters in the World would do that the way they did it.