Which Ice Dance Pair was the Most Mismatched in Skill?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Macassar88, Apr 22, 2013.

  1. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    Not going to include a poll in here, but I would love to have a discussion on what you guys think of this. Everyone always talks about Fusar-Poli being much better than Margaglio and Navka being much better than Kostomarov. I feel that Bestemianova was much better than Bukin and had much more difficult roles in their dances.
     
  2. Cloudy_Gumdrops

    Cloudy_Gumdrops New Member

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    Grushina was miles better than Goncharov.

    I don't think Kostomarov is as bad as he got grief for. I'll admit, I thought so at the time, but now I feel that he was a bit underrated. I'm not saying he's as good as say, Stavisky, but I feel he wasn't as bad as we made him out to be.
     
  3. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    My big issue with Roman was that he was partnered with Navka who I think is one of the best of all time in terms of danceability. So even though he was a good dancer, he always seemed a little tight next to her.

    And yes - Grushina was much better than Goncharov.

    I feel like there was a good amount of mismatch between Denkova and Staviski. Before they went to Linichuk, I wasn't very impressed by her lines in the lifts. But I think that Staviski is one of the best out there.
     
  4. Whitneyskates

    Whitneyskates Well-Known Member

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    I always thought Averbukh was much better than Lobacheva.
     
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  5. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    Agosto was a much better skater than Belbin. I also agree with the Averbukh-Lobacheva mention.

    Perhaps Fusar-Poli & Margaglio were further apart in their skill levels than any other ice dance couple. She did all the 'work'. He did almost nothing (that's why "that" glare from her in 2006, I think. :) )
     
  6. nyrak

    nyrak Active Member

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    Chait & Saknovski
     
  7. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    I was just reading about f-p and m he other day! Saw a link on YouTube to them. Yeah obviously that is like the number one all time pair in terms of commentators and journalists and fans all saying his job was so lift her and not make terrible mistakes while she skated so well! But the major problem of 2006 od was kind of shared. They were so 6.0 but amazing that they won the 2006 cd. They got the most goe on the tech side and tied pcs with n/k. You look a the panel of judges and the technical callers specialist how they'd all get them number one there? I could see if I was a pcs win but it wasn't. It was a tech win! In a cd!
     
  8. Shyjosie

    Shyjosie Active Member

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    As for Staviski being one of the best ice dancers: ITA. But it must have been very early in their career with her not really matching him...Whatever I came to watch throughout their most successful years, I think Denkova was a very good match for him, both technically and in expression, and also in height, looks... but the latter are subject to opinion.

    As for F-P/M, I agree that they might be the ice dancing couple with the biggest difference in skills (I don't like the expression "skill" here, but can't find any better word either), but we should always consider that the better the superiour partner is, the more obvious the inferiority of the other one becomes. So I find it a bit injust to put down Margaglio, because he was not that bad at all.
     
  9. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

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    Yeah. That glare said " all you had to do was STAND THERE and you couldn't even do that."

    I am actually glad that he's doing coaching and helping skaters. Barbara was just insane in her ability to dance. She's one of the few skaters i liked in beige skates and they almost seemed like they were a part of her actual body. She was great.

    I do think that Ben was better than Tanith in a huge way. Ben to me is actually an incredible dancer technically. His power is impressive in person the way he strokes. He was not blameless however but still with a better girl I do believe he could have been a world champ.

    Lobacheva- Ilia was just so much better of a performer than her. I dont know if skill wise he was leaps and bounds better but in performance there just was no contest.

    I think Albena and Maxim were a very even match actually too even. lol. I almost would have wanted to see contrast in strength but they were just both 100 all the time. One of a kind.

    What about Dom-SHabs? She was really good and to me he was not. I dont know how much of that was the knee issue but she seemed better than him to me skill for skill
     
  10. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    About your first paragraph I'm not putting down Albena. I just felt that a lot of times Maxim would have a lot more difficult transitions etc. for example in 2007 FD he would always be in different positions doing difficult transitions while she would e upright.

    And about your second paragraph that's why I said most mismatched and not worst partner.
     
  11. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    Remember that the way CDs were judged under CoP was very subjective. The base value of the dance was the same for everyone. There were no levels, and I don't even think the technical specialist had much of a role other than calling falls/violations. Basically it was just assign whatever PCS you want and whatever GOE you want, so if they could win on PCS they certainly could win on TES too. (I thought they did a good job with that CD, btw).

    Good points. I wouldn't put Mauri on a list of best ice dancers, but I liked him, and he had a great frame.

    I saw Ben doing solos and skating a bit with Nicole Bobek at the Barry Banilow show, and he was really excellent.


    Curious what others think of this. Irina didn't have a great leg line relative to other Russians, and her twizzles were kind of like three-turns, but I thought she had great edges. I don't know that she's so bad, but there are so many great Russian females.
     
  12. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    What about Lang & Tchernyshev?
     
  13. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    Ben should have been world champion with Tanith in 2009.

    I realize that Ben was better than Tanith, but Tanith was not nearly as bad as she's often made out to be. She also made a lot of strides to work on correcting her issues in the later years of their careers, particularly after they moved to Linichuk. She should be given credit for that.
     
  14. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    I know the question was phrased in the past tense, but a couple of contemporary teams come to mind right now Chock - Bates and Gilles and Poirier. I know you guys perhaps mean teams that got away with it and were successful, but these two might be top teams in the next quad, Lord help us all.
     
  15. Shyjosie

    Shyjosie Active Member

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    As for Albena - I didn't think you were putting her down. In interviews she always gave a lot of credit to Maxim for teaching and helping her. It was definitely him who did the riskier work, especially in the lifts. But still, they are a good match IMO.

    And so we agree on F-P/M being a couple with a big difference in skills (under competition conditions)...? Of course we talk about match/mismatch, and not about good/bad.
    Worst partner...I'm glad there is no poll about who we think was the worst...oh dear. I'd never ever call any skater/ice dancer, male or female, a bad partner. Maybe a partner can be the wrong choice, and it would work out better for both if they skated with other partners. I think there's barely any couple ablsolutely equally matched.
     
  16. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    Shabalin's knee injury was a HUGE issue. It's amazing that they were able to compete as long as they did.
     
  17. Cloudy_Gumdrops

    Cloudy_Gumdrops New Member

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    They were a very equal couple before his knee injury. One of if not the best matched team competing at the time.

    Don't waste your breath gerbil. Tanith will never get any respect for anything. There's just an irrational hatred for her skating that people can't get past for reasons I don't understand.

    And yeah, 2009 should've been their World title.
     
  18. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    The 2010 Olympics 3rd & 4th place teams had that old-style gaudy Russian choreo and costuming, where the 1st & 2nd teams had clean and modern choreo and costuming. I think that weighed heavily on B/A but also the level of difficulty that year was so high, and has been ever since. I don't think they should have left Canton.
     
  19. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    You may not prefer the style of their programs, but the improvements in Tanith's skating were evident.
     
  20. TwizzlerS

    TwizzlerS Well-Known Member

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    Since the original question was which team was the MOST mismatched, I'm not sure if I would consider that to be Chait & Saknovski or Fusar-Poli and Margalio. But, I think both of these teams had partners that were at very, very different skill levels.

    I think there is then a level of mismatch that's not the "most" but is pretty evident, like Lang & Tchernyshev, Lobacheva & Auerbach, Drobiazko & Vanagas, and Grushina & Goncharov.

    I haven't watched the Duchesnays lately but I remember thinking how much better Paul was than Isabelle during the time they were skating. But, I don't think their level of mismatch was in the F-P/M and C/S range.
     
  21. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    If you want to talk about worst partner, you'd probably have to go find someone who literally has never been on skates. Obviously any who can compete internationally is amazing. I can't even skate backwards...

    And I think that Denkova and Staviski matched well as a team, but in terms of content, I feel like he did the heavy lifting (no pun intended)
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2013
  22. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Their PCS matched N/K but the tech was higher - so they got more GOE on the tech than anyone else. Which even with the fact that it was subjective and the judges wanted them to give the win there F-P/M did not get there because of PCS but TES. They way they are written about you wouldn't think he had the skills to even do the parts required of a CD. So that is why I brought up the technical specialist.
     
  23. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    I disagree about Chait and Sakhnovsky being the most matched. After all, she wasn't skating, she was being dragged around thrusting her toe picks into the ice...
     
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  24. Moka-Ananas

    Moka-Ananas Man's Ruin

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    I'd throw in Valeria Starygina/Ivan Volobuev. He is sooooooo much better than her.
    I also had the feeling that Jana Khokhlova was better than Sergei Novitski.
     
  25. miffy

    miffy Well-Known Member

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    Most of the ones being mentioned are all from around the same time - FP/M, L/A, C/S, G/G, L/T, D/S, N/K - around 98-02 cycle - could it be that changes to required elements showed up the differences more?

    I liked most of the teams at that time so I don't know who I would choose - probably Denkova/Staviski. Theirs was the only real mismatch which made me not enjoy watching as much. Navka & Kostomarov also was noticable but I only watched her anyway so that was ok. :p

    FP/M was far more noticable in 2006 to me than earlier on - he really struggled with the difficulty and speed in a way that was almost painful to watch. :(

    I think Lang/Tchernyshev were very mismatched at first but she did improve and she always looked very elegant.

    I loved Grushina/Goncharov and did think he was good - just slow!!
     
  26. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    Or teams from 10-15 years ago are more well known to posters here than teams from 20-30-40 years ago.

    I wasn't really following ice dance before the early 1990s, although I did make some effort to catch up via video, and reading, after I got interested. I gather that, e.g., Pakhamova was considered much stronger technically than Gorshkov. But I couldn't tell you who the 5th- or 10th-place team in the world was during the era when they were competing, let alone whether such teams were well matched.
     
  27. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Nora Hoffman and her pathers.
    Rubleva Sheffer. Mattews-Zavoin (i think she was much better, then he).
     
  28. nuge

    nuge Well-Known Member

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  29. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    Khokhlova and Andreev, lol.
     
  30. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

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    Drobiazko improved towards the end of her career, but I remember some of their earlier programs where it was pretty obvious the push and pull angsty choreography was just an attempt to mask the fact he had to drag her around the ice. Don't think she could have kept up otherwise :shuffle:. Tobias/Stagniūnas were also mismatched din terms of power and ice coverage to begin with, but they've come a long way since.