Which events would Irina Slutskaya have won skating cleanly with the following

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by ohashibiles, Jul 10, 2013.

Which events would Slutskaya have won skating cleanly with following

  1. 1997 Worlds- clean short, and rest same

    24 vote(s)
    60.0%
  2. 1998 Worlds- no fall on triple lutz combo in short, or triple flip in long

    18 vote(s)
    45.0%
  3. 2000 Worlds- a 7th triple, not popped any jump and had to rearrange

    30 vote(s)
    75.0%
  4. clean 7 triple with the triple-triple she did

    25 vote(s)
    62.5%
  5. 2002 Olympics- clean 6 triple, just like Worlds

    38 vote(s)
    95.0%
  6. 2006 Olympics- clean 5 triple, same skate with landed triple loop

    28 vote(s)
    70.0%
  7. 2006 Worlds- showed up and skated cleanly with 5 triple type performances

    32 vote(s)
    80.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. ohashibiles

    ohashibiles Active Member

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    It seemed the judges loved Irina`s skating. I hated her skating but the judges loved it. It seems they wanted to give her alot more titles, even versus people like Michelle Kwan who was a great skater and who the judges also loved. Which of the events would Irina have won with a clean performance with the following content:

    1997 Worlds- just not fallen in short and done same long.
    1998 Worlds- not fallen in short, not fallen in long, still done the 2 triple-triples, and Kwan had same performance(s)
    2000 Worlds- skated cleanly with a 7th triple, even if not a triple-triple
    2001 Worlds- skated cleanly with 7 triples, including the triple-triple-double she already did.
    2002 Worlds- skated cleanly with 6 triples
    2006 Olympics- skated cleanly with 5 triples, same performance minus the one fall
    2006 Worlds- showed up and did a clean 5 triple Q round, a clean short, and clean 5 triple only long
     
  2. UGG

    UGG Well-Known Member

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    2002 Olympics fo sho!
     
  3. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    From what it looked like, the judges were ready to hand Irina the gold had she skated clean in Salt Lake. Her LP definitely did not merit a 5.9 for the first mark.

    And even if Irina skated clean in Torino, I don't think she would have beaten Shiz.
     
  4. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    She already won 2002 Worlds (?)
     
  5. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    I think it's easy to forget that her ugly programs won things.
     
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  6. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    I voted for all of the last 4 options. I wouldn't have agreed with 2001, but it would have gone that way.

    2002 Olympics was a no-brainer. She almost won as it was.

    2006 Olympics. She was the obvious favorite, reigning world champion and with a 6-triple program the judges would've given her the nod over Shizuka who had one less triple and did not have the momentum that Slutskaya did.

    2006 Worlds was another no-brainer. Kimmie would still have won silver, but no way would they have put her over a cleanish Slute.
     
  7. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    Yep, I definitely think she could have won 2002 Worlds.
     
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  8. kuzytalent

    kuzytalent Active Member

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    I voted for everything except the 2006 Olympics. Those who voted for the 2006 Olympics and only 5 triples option must believe after the 4 automatic points for the fall, she would have gotten 2 full points in GOE (enormous then) and gained a whole 4 points in PCS from that alone or something like that. Seems crazy to me to believe that would have happened but to each their own. The fantasy some of you have Irina could make up 10 points with just one fallen jump aside the others I think she would have managed:

    2000 Worlds- took judges off Kwan and had overall slightly higher technical marks even with only 6 triples, a big pop open, and no triple-triple try. With a 7th triple, even just a simple 2nd triple toe or something, and no pops, she wins no problem here I think. Wouldnt deserve to neccessarily but Kwan had the bad luck of skating first in the final flight, being 3rd in short, and a rare time she wasnt reigning Champ of any big event and 2 others who were and also ahead of her after the short were left.

    2001 Worlds- She almost won even with the mistakes so again probably gets this no problem. I hate her dress this year, she looks like a sewed up piggy.

    2002 Olympics- Yes wins easy clean, even with safe skate.

    1997 Worlds- Had she not fallen she would have won the short easily over Tara, and leading after the short there is no way the judges place her lower than Tara in the long. Might still place her 2nd to Michelle in the long but it wouldnt matter except losing Tara the silver to if that happened.

    1998 Worlds- Dont remember much but it was a pretty crummy event with lots of WDs so probably with two clean skates and 3-3s in the long she wins over Michelle with mistakes and no 3-3 try, even if Irina was a yuck skater around then.

    2006 Worlds- Yeah a decent Irina wins. The judges only gave Kimmie such huge scores and the title since after Sasha bombed, and Joannie bombed the short there was nobody else they could imagine winning it. Fumie as World Champion was a big no, so rushed to give it to a young skater who atleast seemed to have potential to avoid an embarssment.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2013
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  9. David21

    David21 Well-Known Member

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    She did skate cleanly except for a flawed but technically clean landing of one single jump. But instead the judges awarded the Gold Medal to a skater who underrotated almost all of her triple jumps.
     
  10. mustafinabars

    mustafinabars Member

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    Probably all of them. The only one there is any chance of her not winning with that is the 98 Worlds since she wasnt seen as a top skater on par with Kwan or Lipinski that year, and her artistry and programs that year were horrible.

    As for the 2006 Olympics the judges lowered her GOE and PCS on everything after the fall as they felt at that point she deserved to be below Sasha. Had she not fallen they wouldnt have reduced her scores in other things and she would have beaten Shizuka by a bit.
     
  11. chanunderrated

    chanunderrated Member

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    She wouldnt have won the 2006 Olympics with only 5 triples and the same execution of other elements and overall performance she had that night. Just do the math, she lost by 10 points and you dont lose 10 points by falling on one jump.

    She wouldnt have won the 1998 Worlds over Kwan in the U.S, with the skater she was that year, no matter what either.

    The other 5 probably wins yes, including 1997 Worlds over Tara.
     
  12. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    1997 Worlds, 2002 Olympics, 2006 Worlds- 110% for sure yes.

    2000 Worlds- probably

    2001 Worlds- maybe, dont know

    2006 Olympics- would easily win skating her best, but just with what the original poster specified probably not. Too many shaky elements with low GOE and too flat a performance to have ever beaten 5 triple Shizuka with just 5 triples of her own, a 6th probably would have done it. Once she doubled the flip after landing several jumps high on the toe pick, and almost falling out of several spins, I knew she had already lost the gold even before the triple loop fall which merely jeapordized silver.

    Shizuka was also given a monstrous gift in the SP where she should have been atleast 5 points back of both Slutskaya and Cohen yet tied them, which shows she was the judges favorite this event as well.

    1998 Worlds- I doubt it since her presentation sucked so bad this year.
     
  13. shady82

    shady82 Active Member

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    2002 Olympics, 2006 Worlds, and 2006 Olympics for sure. 1997 Worlds most likely. I imagine she'd place 2nd behind Lipinski in the short (even though both her and Gusmeroli should've been higher), then 2nd in the long behind Kwan. This would place her 1st overall. But I can't be 100% sure about where she would have been placed.

    2000 and 2001 probably, because she received such high technical scores even with mistakes. But Michelle skated so well that the judges may have just swayed towards the complete package. 1998 Worlds probably not, Kwan was so far ahead of the rest of the field that it's hard to say. Even with her mistakes, she received all 5.7s for technical and 5.9s for presentation in the long. I don't imagine Irina receiving more than a 5.8 and 5.8.
     
  14. falling_dance

    falling_dance D. Murakami's Newest Fan

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    The Ukrainian and Austrian judges each gave Kwan a 5.8 for presentation in the free skate.

    Slutskaya received four 5.8s and a 5.9 for technical merit even with a fall on the triple flip. While it would almost certainly have been a split decision for gold even if she'd skated cleanly in both phases, it wasn't impossible for her to win it.
     
  15. shady82

    shady82 Active Member

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    Ugh oops..you're right. Just my bad memory here.
     
  16. DannyCurry

    DannyCurry Active Member

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    Indeed.

    2000 and 2001 Worlds
    Although I find Slutskaya could deliver terrific SPs, I can't think of any of her LP that displayed great presentation. Her LPs tended to be sloppy and needed two triple-triple to overtake a clean Kwan with 7 triples. In 2000 in Nice, Irina seemed to be the favorite after her GPF win. I really felt the judges were ready to crown her world champion (which made MK's win even greater) but she bombed her Carmen (what's that?). Look at her set up into the 3 lutz, if that's not telegraphing a jump, what is it? Gorgeous 3 loop though

    In 2001, despite her recycled and sloppier Don Quixote, she again was the judge's favorite. Had she landed her 2nd 3-3, she probably would have won. Although I love SOTBS, I think some of Michelle's triple were URed, or close to being URed. So, a clean Slutskaya with a 7 triples program, including the 3sal-3lp and 3lz-3lp, would have been awarded the gold, no matter how poor her presentation was.

    2002 Olys
    Assuming everyone else would have performed the same way they did at that event, she probably would have won the 2002 Olympics with 6 clean triples. However, in my opinion, her Tosca was a choreographic mess (can't recall whoever said it was sophisticated) and she still telegraphed badly some of her jumps. As much as I don't like Hughes, I'd still rather see her win with her 7 URed triples program than a clean Tosca without 3-3. But then, as it has been discussed so many times, the SP results were so debatable it is safe to say Hughes never should have won the OGM.

    2006 Olys
    In 2006, she did telegraph a little less and her presentation, (while still poor in her LP IMO), had improved. Had she landed the triple loop, I'm not sure she would have have won, since Arakawa was favored by the judges, as judgejudy27 stated. Anyway, that was yet another depressing event.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2013
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  17. butyrskafanatic

    butyrskafanatic Member

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    I agree with the poll results. Probably all of them except maybe the 1998 Worlds. Then again if Tara with tiny jumps and poor artistry could beat a clean Michelle due to her triple-triples, wouldnt a clean Irina with triple-triples, poor artistry, and huge jumps and way better spins and other elements than Tara have to beat a flawed Michelle no matter what her standing in the sport supposably was or wasnt at the time.

    Maria had a much worse fall than Irina in the long though, and it badly affected both her technical and artistic scores as she lost 20 seconds and most of the end of the program, and still lost the silver to Irina only on a 5-4 split so if we say Irina could have won over Michelle with 2 clean programs at the 98 Worlds, we have to say Maria could have to though.

    I hate Irina's skating (and poor sportsmanship to boot), so I am only basing it on what judges would do. I do think she deserved the 2 World titles she won but I personally dont think she deserved to win most of the events on the poll even had she skated cleanly with her programs those years, or atleast cleanly with only what the OP specified. I suspect the judges would think different though.

    I am a bit confused though since the OP specifies her doing less than she is capable of in some instances, so what are we to assume. Her best or what she could do, or just what the OP states. It makes no sense to assume her doing only 5 triples or why bother to do a hypothetical if she skated well anyway, as that is not skating well for her to begin with.

    Scary to think Irina could have won 8 World and Olympic events. Scary to think we might have to be calling Irina best skater ever today. Thank goodness that never happened.
     
  18. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. I never found Tara's artistry poor. Actually quite good for a younger skater, always better than Irina's (Irina even had problems with basic posture). And other than the double axel, Tara's jumps weren't tiny, when you take in consideration her own "tinyness."
     
  19. butyrskafanatic

    butyrskafanatic Member

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    Sorry you are right poor is the wrong word. I would say her presentation was very good, but not great, and not at Michelle, Lu Chen, or even Maria Butyrskaya level. So when I said poor I only meant in a relative to the gold standard standard. Her presentation was better than Irina's at that point though I agree. Irina did have poor posture and lines, and that year really immature programs. However the judges loved Irina so I imagine they would see her presentation as roughly equal to Tara's, even though it shouldnt be, if she also did triple-triples, 7 triples, and a 2nd triple lutz, and her technical greater due to her bigger and more powerful elements.

    Tara beat a clean Michelle with triple-triples, so it is hard to see Irina not able to beat a flawed Michelle with triple-triples. I doubt the judges saw Irina as that much worse a skater than Tara in the unlikely event she skated clean, even then.
     
  20. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    The lp at 97 worlds had all 3 medalists tied with 3 first places each iirc, telling us that the judges basically felt them all on par and each worthy of the title. However, once the dust settled the lp was marked 1. Kwan 2. Tara 3. Irina so a clean short wouldn't help her win if she couldn't beat Tara or Kwan (with a mistake!) in the lp. She'd really need to not only not fall in the sp, but have Tara fall instead.
     
  21. butyrskafanatic

    butyrskafanatic Member

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    I am not sure how credible a source she is but Christine Brennan implied in her book the judges would definitely have placed Irina 1st or 2nd in the long for the same skate but after a poor short and other poor showings that season they had wrote her off. Being in 1st or 2nd in the short they wouldnt have been able to. Brennan is not a Slutskaya fan so I doubt she would go out of her way to inflate her.

    It might be too that the judges did not want to see Tara lose the title with 2 clean programs so they were careful she didnt potentially split Michelle and Tara in the long to make that happen.