Which 2 U.S men will make it to Sochi

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by judgejudy27, Apr 6, 2013.

Which 2 U.S men will make Olympic team

Poll closed Jan 31, 2014.
  1. Aaron

    74.1%
  2. Miner

    7.8%
  3. Dornbush

    15.5%
  4. Miner

    5.2%
  5. Lysacek

    25.9%
  6. Abbott

    38.8%
  7. Farris

    21.6%
  8. Brown

    6.9%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Jun Y

    Jun Y Well-Known Member

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    Whoever end up going to Olys, I just hope the pressure does not turn the competition into a splatfest because I will be in Boston in January.
     
  2. KimGOAT

    KimGOAT Active Member

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    You all need to get a clue. Yes Evan is no threat at the World level but if he even shows up at Nationals and lands like 4 triples he will be given ridiculous score and put on the team since NBC will basically push the USFSA to make sure he does, like they did with Sasha in 2010 (she didnt make it but only since she was so crap they had no choice). NBC care about ratings and they wil be desperate to have the big name. Now I understand alot not voting for him since they dont think he will even try, and he would be smart to not as NBC pull with the ISU is absolutely nothing and Evan will probably come about 15th at the Olympics if he is there, but I see some saying he will skate at Nationals and not make it, and that wont happen.
     
  3. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't surprise me really. I like Ross's personality, he seems like a hard worker and a fun guy, sporty and a bit rugged, and I wish he'd show that more in his programs but he doesn't at all. Sparkly V-necks and Rachmaninoff are doing nothing for him - if Ross had a program to acoustic guitar music and showed off that fun laid-back personality we see in interviews, then I bet he could be very entertaining. And I agree about a coaching change. As I have mentioned before, Mark and Peter are very good at coaching very well-trained, physically fit skaters, but they do not teach the best technique and their skaters do not generally have the most interesting programs. That is the issue with Ross, his technique is not great and the programs aren't packaging him well, yes he may be a bit stiff naturally and he does fit the mold of a "typical white guy", but that could be camoflauged with good programs, music, and choreography rather than emphasized with his current stuff. Part of why I like Richard so much - he doesn't skate to the same old classical music everyone has heard a million times and he is a bit more rough and tumble on the ice, both in the style of his programs and the way he presents himself with the understated costumes and freer body movement. I want to see the funny Ross that was joking around with Max and Josh at Nationals and used to be a hockey player and is proud of it in his competitive programs. Problem is I have yet to see that.
     
  4. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    And unless Lysacek competes at other competitions before Nationals, skates well at them, skates well at Nationals, and is trying the quad and having some success at least rotating it, then I hope he doesn't make the team, and certainly not in a controversial manner. It bugs me when these skaters try to waltz in after not having competed for 3 years and try to get one of 2 coveted Olympic spots, planning to fully retire from the sport directly afterward, and end up getting one or even coming close primarily based on reputation PCS, taking away the opportunity of a lifetime from a younger skater who has been working his butt off and actually competing the past 3 years, skates better at Nationals and really deserves to be sent, but doesn't get to go because of a comeback like this. It's just a little disrespectful. I mean, I get if you take a year or even two off, but to come back just for the Olympic season or compete at the Nationals preceding the Olympics as your only competition in the past quadrennial is pretty cheap.
     
    gingercat and (deleted member) like this.
  5. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Farris and Brown would be nice, but Farris and Aaron would probably be closer to reality. :p
     
  6. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    Disrespectful and cheap? Hardly. Just because Lysacek has not competed, does not mean that he has not been working hard and training. If he wants to compete at the Olympics, he will have to compete prior to Nationals in order to earn the required TES score. Therefore, he will not be able just to show up at nationals and earn a spot on the 2014 Olympic team.

    The USFSA has shown in the past that Olympic medalist do not get a free pass onto another Olympic team (ex., Sasha C., Tim G.) Lysacek will have to earn his spot on the Olympic team, it will not be given to him. Whether a skater plans to retire after the Olympics is 100% irrelevant to selecting the Olympic team. The Olympic games are supposed to be the best athletes from each country competing. The "younger skaters" will have an equal shot at making the Olympic team. The USFSA had no problem leaving Olympian Abbott off the world team in 2011 and 2013 when other younger skaters performed better at Nationals. Therefore, I have no reason to believe that the USFSA would not do the same in selecting the 2014 Olympic team.

    I am curious, when Phelps decided he was going to come back for his fourth Olympics, did the USA swim fans whine that Phelps should not come back because it was obvious that he was going to retire from the sport after the Olympics; that he took time off from competing; that he was robbing all those younger swimmers of their dream to compete at the Olympics; that he had already won gold medals; and that it was rude and disrespectful for him to want to compete in another olympics?
     
  7. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    IIRC Phelps didn't just show up at trials expecting to be picked.

    I don't have an issue with comebacks as a rule. What I do have issues with is those comeback athletes who just show up to selection events/trials etc after not competing anywhere else expecting to be picked. THAT is disrespectful.

    And I do hope the USFSA doesn't waste two assignments on Lysacek again when he'll probably just WD anyway.
     
  8. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    As I previously stated, Lysacek will have to compete PRIOR to nationals if he wants to compete in Sochi in order to earn the required TES score. Therefore, he will not be able to "just show up at nationals" and be named to the Olympic team. ;)
     
  9. J-Ro

    J-Ro Active Member

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    I loved the programs Ross had as a novice and as a junior; that was when he did the race car driver theme and the surfer theme (with the "Hawaii 5-0" theme and "Wipeout." It was great.). He picked the music for that both times and they were both really fun programs to watch. Even his "Casablanca" program a few years ago was fun before it was altered a bit. That was total Ross. After that, when he deferred to Mark and Peter his programs became uninteresting just when they should have become even more interesting. Sometimes you just want to say something to him, but protocol says differently. And I'm totally with you on his technique. It seems like many skaters who work with Mark and Peter have the same flaws. Where is Gustave Lussi when you need him??
     
  10. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Interesting, so you train at the same rink as Ross, then I suppose. I wonder whether the novice programs you mentioned are available on video? I'd love to see them.

    I do agree that Ross needs to loosen up more (take some dance classes) and also bring more of who he is onto the ice. Ross worked this season with Tom Dickson and Catarina Lindgren on choreo, and I think he had very good programs -- it was his first time working with Tom and Catarina, so perhaps you are referring to his previous choreographer because I think Tom Dickson is excellent. Therefore, I wonder whether Ross' coaches made any changes to what Tom and Catarina created, or whether more fleshing out and fine-tuning of the programs was needed as the season progressed, but Ross didn't have the opportunity to fly back to Colorado for that to happen? I do think a bit more character and expression is needed in Ross' programs, but I also think the programs he had this season were a good step in his trying to branch out. I also felt his long program to The Untouchables was good for him last season, but that was okay for last season and so he and his coaches recognized the need to try something more challenging for this season. However, more needs to be done in terms of Ross making a bolder impact.

    If Ross has a tendency to defer to his coaches' judgment exclusively, he should rethink that and put forward some of his ideas, because in the end it's about him finding his own identity on the ice. If what you say is true about Ross having a creative musical sense, then he definitely needs to step up and take control in that sense, because he needs to come back with something special for next season. I hope he's reflecting on what he can do differently to bring out more emotion and expressiveness.

    As far as technique, I would hope Peter and Mark recognize the importance of bringing someone in to work with Ross on his technique. I think the answer is not always necessarily to change the coach(es) you are comfortable with, but to take a larger role in saying, "I think I need to work on this aspect," or "I'd like to try something different and we need to find ways for me to make some changes." It would behoove Ross' coaches to help him in every way possible and to seek out additional resources, and to not be micro-managers or authoritarians with huge egos where only what they say goes. When a skater needs to evolve, the coach(es) should be flexible and totally in the skater's corner without being self-interested and defensive or worried about turf issues, IMO.

    It might be difficult when coaches have worked with a skater from a young age to recognize when the skater needs to stretch and grow, and to obtain additional help and to take more responsibility for their direction. A good example of how that can work well when the coach allows their skater to seek out additional resources while still offering guidance and support, is the coaching relationship that successfully evolved between Linda Leaver and Brian Boitano.
     
  11. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. I never said that Evan wasn't training hard these past three years, he likely was, but he was not competing, and so much of team selections these days depends on competition results, in terms of overall consistency, volatitlity in perfomrance, ability to hit certain jumps and success rates with it, etc. and by not competing these past three years, Evan does not had that. I was careful to not say that he hasn't been training hard all this time because that is not a valid argument, but there is a difference between just training and competing. There's a lot of pressure that goes with competing and competition results tend to stick with you for awhile for better or worse and Lysacek doesn't have any of that so that is why I think it is cheap and putting him on unequal footing with the others.
     
  12. danceronice

    danceronice Corgi Wrangler

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    Thank you for saying it so I don't feel like a jerk saying it. Sorry, I spent a whole year watching at that club 40 hours/week and their programs still look alike. When Ross does a show program, even back then he had 'it' and I think at the very least a fresh choreographer might help. I loved the "Casablanca" program when I saw it while he was a Novice. However I don't anticipate any major changes from his coaches (whom I like just fine as people, have nothing against, just sometimes it's like COULD YOU PLEASE LET YOUR SKATERS HAVE DIFFERENT PERSONALITIES KTHNX.)
     
  13. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    Oh brother. How long have you been watching skating? Do you recall the media drubbing USFSA took when they put Michelle Kwan on the 2006 Olympic team? And if anyone deserved an automatic spot on that team, it was the Five-Time World Champion, especially since they wouldn't have even had three spots if Michelle hadn't competed in Moscow the prior year. No way would USFSA risk that kind of bad publicity in an Olympic year for Evan's sake. He wouldn't do much for US ratings, anyway, since US viewers tend to be so focused on the ladies.
     
  14. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    Per the USFSA media guide, the most watched Olympic skating event in 2010 was the men's free skate.
     
  15. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    Well, if that is so, then it only makes it even more confusing that the USFSA seems fixated on the idea that only the ladies can be superstars, only the ladies should be promoted.
     
  16. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    Generally, the ladies events have a larger viewership. Prior to the Olympics, the mens competition was heavily promoted because the field included world and olympic medalist. In 2010, the men's short program had lower viewership than the ladies. However, the men's free skate was the most watched skating event. That could be a byproduct of the day of the week the event was held, other Olympic events that were being televised that day, etc. However, it should have indicated to NBC that with a little promotion, all of the skating events, not just the ladies, can get good viewership.
     
  17. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Had Michelle Kwan been semi healthy at the time and able to skate Nationals though she probably would have been placed 2nd or 3rd regardles whether she landed 2 triples or 6 or 7 (well of course if she landed 6 or 7 she would have been no worse than 2nd). Even had she landed only 2 triples and placed top 3 and made the team there would have been absolutely no controversy about it, especialy with how mediocre most of the U.S women were that year. It became a controversy only since she didnt compete at Nationals, and some were worried she wasnt even really healthy to skate at the Games, which proved true, despite if these same people who complain actully thought about it had she actually skated, there is nothing she could have done bad enough to miss it. I think that is the concern or point of some people, that Evan if he simply shows up at Nationals, even if he doesnt do much, will just be placed on the team for sure since he is Evan, reigning OGM, and there are no outstanding U.S men now anyway. Evan is no Kwan, but his achievements might still want all the powers that be seeing him make the team if he simply shows up. I believe and hope that is not the case however.