Where to for Mirai Nagasu now?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by lahaa968, Jan 27, 2013.

  1. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    The big thing Nagasu has to decide is whether it is worth it to take another shot at the Olympics, or whether she wishes to move on to other things in life. Only she knows what she wants.

    IF she chooses to continue - then she really needs to find something more energetic and that doesn't give her the space to simply "skate around". She was at her best in 2010 with two perky pieces - why not go back to that? As for her jumps, they do need some work in general but she was sick here after all - she looked fine in the SP but obviously the reduced stamina would become an issue in the longer FS.

    Not sure how Zawadzki got 2nd in the SP with a fall - out of all the skaters there seems to be the biggest discrepancy between domestic and international scores with her. I find that rather odd...

    I think it was unfortunate Nagasu got sick at such an inopportune time. Reminds me of when Wagner was sick at 2011 Nationals and it led to a 6th place finish (her worst IIRC). In the long run it might have worked in her favor as it was the last straw that pushed her to go to Nicks the next season. What Nagasu needs to do is assess her current situation and determine whether it is sufficient to get her to the level she wants to reach. Then again, it's possible that Nagasu has already peaked as a skater (2010) and she will never get there again. You never really know...
     
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  2. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Oh Yay!! :cheer: Polymer Bob! ITA, and there likely are some judges who try to strictly adhere to this “radical idea,” but it's probably impossible for every judge to maintain such a standard because :lol: the judges are not "automatons," even though apparently we've recently heard that some coaches have expected their skaters to be. Human nature, the political nature of the sport, and the inherent problems with judging figure skating combined have made judges’ scoring susceptible to corruption or at the least to manipulation historically and traditionally.

    Okay, let's say most of the overt corruption has been stamped out under the new system. That’s probably true and it's helpful, but we're still dealing with buzz, politics, subjectivity, human nature, erratic judging under complex and constantly changing rules, publicly anonymous ISU judging, fairly random GOE assessments, the endless possibilities for PCS manipulation, and the desire of many judges to "do the right thing," and not be too far of an outlier in their scoring so that they personally stay in TPTB "good graces." Figure skating is a subjective sport and it's always been difficult to judge. But the sport coasted along far too long with corrupt judging and with heads in the sand regarding the need for change. Then the sport fell completely under the control of ISU handlers who view it from the lens of a different sport which has only further complicated the ongoing transitional challenges figure skating is going through post Salt Lake City and CoP/IJS.
     
  3. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    :lol:
     
  4. Karpenko

    Karpenko Well-Known Member

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    :lol: Isn't projection a defense mechanism for a Histrionic Personality?

    Just sayin'. ;)

    You were hardly there, Tonya!
     
  5. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ ITA :lol:

    Probably one of the things Mirai's fans enjoy the most about watching her is the way she seems to have such a lighthearted infectious spirit when she's on and happy. Conversely, when she's not happy and lacks confidence it shows and isn't fun to witness. It's too bad that at the beginning of her skating career Mirai wasn't able to smoothly navigate the vagaries and the "we love you, we hate you" aspects of this sport.

    Now, forgive me for taking a stab at a bit of child psychology. ;)

    Figure skating is a beautiful sport and it can be uplifting ... but on rarer occasions these days. Mirai's unique talent and lively infectious spirit on the ice when she’s on have been among those rare occasions of uplift (at least for me) in watching this sport. Of course Mirai is responsible for maintaining her own discipline and good training habits, but I also think it didn't help the development of her skating to have had such a huge spotlight placed on her at such a young age (ditto for Caroline Zhang). I think there is a delicate balance that could have been achieved for Mirai when she first burst onto the scene out of juniors, if wiser adult heads had prevailed. Yes, Mirai was precocious and she deserved to score highly at 2008 Nats, but I’m not so sure that winning at that time was the right result for the right reason, nor was it perhaps best for her personally. (I think the fed’s mindset at that time was kind of, "Quick, let’s reward the next Michelle Kwan/ Tara Lipinski/ Sasha Cohen").

    With Mirai's subsequent technical problems on her jumps, 2008 was a period when there probably needed to be more focus on having her work on the fundamentals and to mature. Yes, encourage and reward her, but not with a title which didn’t even allow her to compete at Worlds (due to ISU age restrictions). That didn’t make great sense now or then. There were other ladies who performed comparably well that year, even if they weren't fresh precocious new faces. It might have been to Mirai's advantage to progress more slowly and to stay with coaches she was more comfortable with rather than her being sent to work with a top coach so precipitously.

    Apparently all some people could see was Mirai's talent, her cuteness, and the possibilities of stardom. They didn't seem to fully see and appreciate her as the quirky, amazing and complicated youngster that she was. Nor did many adults actually seem to take the time to get to know her, understand her needs, and allow her the necessary time, guidance, resources, and proper attention for improving technical consistency on her jumps. Mirai is now a young lady and all some fans and people in the sport seem to see are bad URs, and an athlete they aren't so enthusiastic about anymore struggling to battle back to competitive form.

    Definitely it wasn’t good if Mirai had trouble as a youngster with training discipline, but it was also important for her to have the right coaching matchup. I agree that Mirai does need to fully take the reins and be responsible for her life and her skating (which she seems to have done this season). Being sure what she wants and having a strong work ethic is important. The past can not be changed but it is possible to learn from it. IMO, it is difficult to assess when athletes are very young if they are ready for the demands of success or if they even understand what is required of them. At such young ages, they are definitely not responsible for all the choices that in fact are made for them.

    I say all of this from an outsider, fan-centric viewpoint. These are my perceptions. But I don’t think we’d even be debating the Nationals results to this degree, had they been fair across the board. Many fans and non-fans watching were confused with the scoring, and simply looking at or even understanding the rules and the protocols does NOT change the fact that Mirai was a bit more harshly judged than some others. Again, as I said, what matters most is how Mirai responds to this setback. She should keep it in perspective and when looking back on her performance, try to separate the effects of the flu from what she could have done better. Her placement at Nationals and others’ negative opinions should not keep her from being proud of what she’s accomplished throughout her career and particularly this season, nor should she allow the official results to keep her from continuing to set personal goals and to work hard on reaching them.
     
  6. Spun Silver

    Spun Silver Well-Known Member

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    To me so much depends on PROGRAMS - her getting choreography that will inspire her to put in the work because she is excited to show it to people. Her SP this season was OK and she certainly performed it to the hilt at Nats but it is still cutesy, not the kind of thing that generated any buzz other than for the fact that Mirai was showing some spark again. Caitlin Yankowskas, in the podcast released today on Aunt Joyce, talked about how important it is to tell a story through her programs and connect with the audience that way, and how that desire inspires her skating in general and also motivated her through some very tough times. I want that for Mirai... but you can't just inject the right feelings in people (alas). It is an inborn thing. But surely Mirai and her team can come up with programs she can get her teeth into -- or even just an FP if they want to keep the successful SP -- something that would showcase her in a mature and striking way. I guess money is a factor in this too, though....
     
  7. change of edge

    change of edge New Member

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    Yes I agree much depends on the programs. However I think Mirai intended her FS to inspire her, since she liked it and called it a "story of hope."

    http://www.absoluteskating.com/index.php?cat=interviews&id=2012mirainagasu

    She also mentioned that she wanted something "classical and mature" for her FS. I think when she performed her FS, she wanted to appear mature and stoic. It's probably because of that that she didn't show much emotion while performing her FS until the end (with her choreographic sequence when the music really builds). I think Mirai wanted to appear mature and grown up by keeping her emotions in check, but unfortunately she came off as looking uninvested in her performance.


     
  8. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    :)
     
  9. Spun Silver

    Spun Silver Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I guess, but she needs someone who can help her understand the difference between looking frozen and looking mature -- someone who can really help/inspire her to skate expressively to "grownup" music, and give her some good material to work with. I am zeroing in on the choreographer's role because I liked what I saw of Mirai's coaches, Olson and Evidente, in the recent mini-doc. Her training seems to be on the right track but her programs don't.
     
  10. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    I don't think this is 100% for anyone who's called her recent skating wooden, frozen, robotic, etc., but perhaps....some people are so besotted with the adorable kid she was, that they find it difficult to accept her in any other form.
     
  11. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I think people are comparing her to other skaters and noticing a lack of...variation of expression in Mirai. She's falling into one-note territory where she's either perky or she's stone-faced. Maybe I should pay more attention to any nuances or subtleties on her musical interpretation, but I find that seems like Mirai equates mature expression to almost no expression.
     
  12. modern_muslimah

    modern_muslimah Thinking of witty user title and coming up blank

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    This. I don't mind Mirai doing "perky" if it means that she shows life in her skating. However, I don't think she necessarily has to do perky. Her exhibition this season was exquisite. So I think it's a matter of her and her choreographer picking a piece that is appropriate for her. I think Mirai doesn't want to become a one-note skater either but she and her choreographers haven't found the middle way between "perky" and somber yet.
     
  13. change of edge

    change of edge New Member

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    Is there a chance that Mirai will be sent to the WTT?
     
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  14. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree. That program was perfect, mature, graceful, "insert favorable word here"... While I thought the short program this year was OK, it was nothing that I could see winning a World medal. They even said that they were trying to rekindle something from the past which is not a good thing unless it is MK's Rachmaninoff program and I think even that was a slight mistake. The long program was not musical. I find it bizarre that her choregrapher told her that she had to keep the organs in because no one ever skates to them. Maybe there is a reason for that... Certain music translates better to audiences and I don't think she has had the right music or programs for the past two years.

    I really hope she does have a fresh start next season with two world class programs.
     
  15. dawnie

    dawnie Active Member

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    I'm a bit confused when it comes to WTT invites. I thought it was World ranking but I think the federations get a say in who goes as well? If it's the federation, I doubt Mirai will get sent unless Ashley, Gracie, Agnes, and Christina all decline.
     
  16. change of edge

    change of edge New Member

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    Yeah I hope she'll get a chance. If they are going by international scores alone, Mirai still has the second highest international score this season, even after 4 Continents.
     
  17. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    A coaching change has been mentioned above. but, a couple of issues relating to that -

    She had already been to a coach famous for teaching solid technique- FC. She had her moments when his instruction bore fruit on the ice (2010 Nats - 2010 Worlds SP). But, then there seemed to be a personality conflict that arose between the two, as well as her penchant to crack under pressure. Now, this doesn't disqualify her from searching out a famous, technical coach now, But she should probably only do so if she's achieved a certain level of maturity and gets her head together.

    There is also the issue of family life. Past threads suggest she has close family ties and would need to stay somewhere very close to her parent's home. If that's true, that will severely limit her options.
     
  18. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to see Mirai work with Christy Krall. Not necessarily as a primary coach but as a jump coach. Krall's students have great jumps and good technique; I think Mirai would benefit from that...
     
  19. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    A part-time coaching relationship might work. But since she already has Agnes, I wonder how that would work out.

    But, I can't emphasize enough that it's really up to Mirai to let go of her insecurities and find a level of peace in her mind that allows her to be free and confident on the ice, even when the pressure is insurmountable.
     
  20. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    World Team Trophy team selection usually is based on a top 10 finish at Worlds and/or ISU Worlds Standings rankings after Worlds (not Seasons Best scores), but the federations also take into account the competition readiness of a skater. Last spring, Mirai was not selected to WTT reportedly because she had not been training her programs during her coachless period. Here's the link to the 2013 World Team Trophy thread in GSD: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?87037-2013-ISU-World-Team-Trophy-April-11-14-in-Tokyo

    ETA photos of a mischievous Mirai & her shorter hair ;): http://instagram.com/p/Vk6g51i5T1/
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
  21. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I think I read somewhere in these threads that Frank had found a host family for Mirai so she could still train with him but that her mother objected. That is concerning. If mother and daughter can't break ties then it would suggest to me that Mirai, as much as I love her, isn't willing to do whatever it takes to fight back to the top. She's only willing to do what she can as close to home as possible-and that might not be enough.

    Thanks for the explanation on WTT selections! And thanks for the link to mischievous Mirai and her new do! I think it looks good. She's still smiling in spite of her result at Nationals so that's good. :D
     
  22. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    I posted this response earlier in this thread:
    There also could be financial considerations to which we fans aren't privy.
     
  23. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    Thanks again for clarifying! And it is true, there could indeed be financial considerations that we fans aren't aware of.

    Mirai tweeted this:
    https://twitter.com/mirai_nagasu
    Mirai Nagasu ‏@mirai_nagasu
    Kyrie is inspiration.


    I wonder which version of "Kyrie" she's listening too?

    I hope she's inspired to keep fighting back to the top at Nationals and on to the Olympic team next year. I hope she has a great season next year and great programs.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013
  24. triple_toe

    triple_toe Well-Known Member

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    I'm kind of annoyed by the notion that because Mirai didn't want to move away from her family she isn't committed enough. Some families are closer than others and it's no one's place to get involved in her family dynamics. Wasn't Mirai's mother sick for a while? Not everything is about money. There's nothing wrong with wanting to stay close. Plenty of skaters need that and I'm of the opinion that it's good and healthy to have a support system. Yu na's mother travelled with her everywhere, as did Karen Chan. Tessa Virtue lives with her mother. I think they're doing fine. Some people need to strike out on their own and be completely independent to have success but I'd never look down on someone who insists on being close to their family, especially someone as young as Mirai. It's a very personal thing that differs in every family.
     
  25. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Generally speaking I think grown kids need to have their own lives some day, though I don't know if this should be the case for Mirai right now without knowing more.
     
  26. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    The thought may have occurred that Mirai's parents aren't the best influence. I hate to be the one to voice this, because I don't think it's true, but reading between the lines I think people who question her attachment to living at home may wonder if her parents are easy on her. Nobody would say this out loud because it's based on idle speculation and might be disrespectful. I have heard that Mrs Nagasu is very intense and does help Mirai to train well. This is just gossip though, but interesting gossip nonetheless. I think we all just want Mirai to do well.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013
  27. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

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    Of course there's nothing "wrong" with it, or any decision that Mirai makes. (Unless she breaks the law, of course. :lol: ) It all depends on how much of a priority skating is for her. Family should absolutely be at the top, IMO, but many families make it work without being joined at the hip. Depends on the family, depends on her skating priorities. Ashley Wagner didn't have her breakthrough until she took sole responsibility for her skating and set off across the country on her own. Some are fine where they are, some need a boot in the ass.

    Mirai owes us, nor skating, nothing - she does owe herself to do what she thinks is right, and do what makes her happy.
     
  28. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    ^ Wouldn't surprise me if true. In fact, that's the impression I get.
     
  29. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

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    The young people I know who are living at home aren't there by choice. They aren't thinking, "Man, it's nice that Mom cooks dinner and does the laundry and it would be oh so hard to move away even if I had a great job offer." IMO that's preposterous.

    It's far more likely that there are other things going on at home that we don't know about, or that Mirai is unsure if the sacrifices of moving away will really pay off in her skating. Obligation and uncertainty is what keeps people home, not sheer laziness.
     
  30. triple_toe

    triple_toe Well-Known Member

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    That's my point. Ashley needed to do that. Alissa needed to do that. Other people need just the opposite and will only get the most out of their skating with a strong family support system. If you look at successful skaters it really runs the gamut. Mirai's living situation has nothing to do with how much of a priority skating is, it's solely about her temperament and familial relations. Moving away from home does not make you more dedicated, nor does staying at home make you less so. You're either devoted or you're not and we cannot tell where her priorities are simply by where she chooses to live. Judging her based on that is really grasping at straws IMO.

    In my experience outsiders never have the full picture when it comes to relationships within a family, so I feel uncomfortable speculating on that subject. YMMV of course. In terms of Mirai specifically, I'm guessing that if she felt it would have helped her skating to move in with the family Frank had arranged, she would have done so. The fact that it was arranged at all shows it was a legitimate consideration. I'm sure she had her reasons for not taking up the offer, but I don't think that choice really provides much insight into whether she's committed or not.