Where to for Mirai Nagasu now?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by lahaa968, Jan 27, 2013.

  1. apatinar

    apatinar Active Member

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    I hope she doesn't think that by cutting all her hair off that it will give her more height on the jumps for them to be fully rotated..
     
  2. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    And the bitchyness continues.

    Anyway, she posted a follow up saying it is her mom's handywork and Douglas Razzano said it looks good.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2013
  3. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    I don't see why anybody would have disregard for Mirai. She has a lot to offer as a performer, and she has pretty jumps... simply wrong technique. It sometimes is absurd that it comes down to measurements made with a protractor. There is a problem when standings change radically based on slight angles of the blade. Having worked with Frank so long, I think Mirai knows what she's doing, and she knew she was going to get dinged. Hopefully she does not quit. It would make me and many others so sad.
     
  4. apatinar

    apatinar Active Member

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    This is the off season when she has to work harder than she ever has before... Get herself to a strength and conditioning coach... some pilates work would be excellent to lengthen out her body a bit more...
    I'm not familiar with the credentials of her 2 current coaches... At first I thought that one of them was Bebe Liang all grown up! I really think she needs a jump specialist this spring and summer - most likely Rafael Artunian, but she is going to really have to dig deep and see if the sacrifice of moving away from home is worth it.
     
  5. b-man

    b-man Active Member

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    I think Mirai again is in the season's best top ten, as she is almost every year, yet never makes worlds. I think she is the only age eligible skater in the top ten that won't be at worlds. In 2011, she had the 3rd best score on the seasons best list, but with a 3rd at Nationals, didn't make worlds. The US and Russians get screwed every year with the archaic rule allowing a max of 2 or 3 entrants. The US has 7 in the seasons best 25, and the Russians six. No one suffers more by this rule than Nagasu.
     
  6. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    Mirai is young. Im sure if she wants it, and can do the hard work required she can come back. So many lady skaters are in their 20's now, so
    being a teen isn't really required.

    Does anyone have a picture of her new hair?
     
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  7. UGG

    UGG Well-Known Member

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    Well...she should have landed her double axle at worlds in 2010. The she could have went to worlds in 2011.

    Mirai causes most of her own issues. If she would rotate her jumps and not skate with the same expression I did when i was taking math test, she would probably be on the podium every time she skated.
     
  8. change of edge

    change of edge New Member

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    Interesting that if today's current rules for underrotation were in play in 2010 (so not all underrotations automatically received "downgrade"), Mirai would have actually medaled with her performance at worlds 2010.

     
  9. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    I saw that tweet too! Hope she posts a pic soon-I'm curious! :D
    Good grief. :rolleyes:
    ^^^
    THIS! Mirai can't even get her hair cut without someone taking a swipe. :lol:

    For those here saying that Mirai won't give it another shot if there are only two U.S. spots open for the Olympics next year-I think that's presuming quite a lot. Whatever decision Mirai makes I'm sure it will be the right one-and I hope very much she will try for Sochi and beyond.
    Thank you! Excellent point.
     
  10. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    It definitely did not land forwards. The blade landed sideways and IMO it was just a little under 1/4. I would have given her the benefit of doubt since it was so close and not give her < on the toe loop.

    Ok let's look at all of her jumps frame-by-frame:

    3lutz - she cheated just a little over 1/4 IMO but the technical panel decided it was just a little under (or didn't review the element because they don't have the time to review everything), judges didn't notice that either since 7/9 gave her +1 for this element

    2axel/3toe - she cheated over 1/4 on the axel IMO but the technical panel didn't give her <, 3toe was cheated way way over 1/4 and the < given was definitely correct

    3flip - she cheated clearly over 1/4, < given definitely correct

    (as an aside flying camel was massively off-centred at the end but she got only one -1 and two +1s)

    3flip/2toe/2toe - flip was landed forwards and just under 1/2 underrotated, < definitely justified, second 2toe was just under 1/4 cheated, final 2toe was almost 1/2 cheated and < given was definitely correct

    3loop/2toe - the loop was cheated just over 1/2 IMO but she wasn't even given a <!!! Maybe it was a little less than << but I am 100% certain that she should have got at least < here.

    2axel - I think it was cheated a little over 1/4 but the panel thought otherwise, 7/9 judges gave her +1

    3loop - she landed forwards but IMO it was a tiny bit less than <<, I'd give her < probably

    She has cheated every single jump in that program.

    Some were cheated close to 1/4 but a little less than that, others more than 1/4 and did qualify for downgrades.

    I would question the << on the second loop and would only apply < but then I would apply < to four of the jumps that the panel thought were ok. Remember that the technical panel isn't able to review every single element because it would take forever. So it's possible that she got away with some of the cheats. What is also possible is they had different camera angles or thought it was very close and have given her the benefit of doubt.

    And remember, even if some of the cheats were under <, judges should still deduct -1 on the GOE. And it was a program where it really wasn't difficult to tell the jumps were cheated because she was generally sluggish and her timing was a little slow on the take-offs and most landings were a little skiddy with snow spraying.

    As far as the fall deduction goes, I think that the panel was definitely wrong on that one. She did put both of her hands down but the knee definitely stayed off and no other part of her body touched the ice. I have no idea where that deduction came from. :confused:

    So much for 'the panel overdoing it'.

    Before anybody else cries foul, I'd suggest watching the jumps first. :shuffle:
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
  11. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Gee thanks Ziggy. The judging panel at Salt Lake City 2002 sure coulda used your expertise in the ladies event, eh?

    Actually, IMO, there's no need to "cry foul," when it's as visible and evident as the cute nose on her face that "Mirai Nagasu" is merely tolerated by USFS these days. Obviously, there's no question that figure skating judging is not easy, and also that judges have their favorites (perhaps some judges more than others). The judges probably breathe a sigh of relief when some competitors considered to be middle of the pack end up faltering, which makes it easier to drop them down in the standings, especially when the field has crazy depth. If a skater is a favorite and makes some mistakes (but not too many) judges tend to protect that skater in the scoring. OTOH, if a skater is not a favorite, or even worse, if a skater is on the fed's s**t list, the smallest mistake provides fodder for the dumping ground.

    Ya know, Zigs, in the scoring of Mirai's lp, maybe the fall deduction came from the same place that some of the too-close-to-call UR calls came from. Imagine that! :p ;)
     
  12. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Evident? Where is the evidence then?

    If you throw out accusations, you have to have something to back them up with.

    The technical panel has actually either missed or has given her the benefit of the doubt on a lot of her jumps. She was lucky she didn't get even more ur calls.

    As for that fall, one of her knees was quite close to the ice so I guess they thought it touched and they called it a fall. A mistake, IMO, but when you're replaying as many elements as they did, you aren't able to watch everything as closely and carefully as you'd like because time is limited. Technical panel cannot sit there for 45 minutes replaying every element multiple times. So mistakes will be made.

    There's no conspiracy. USFS doesn't hate Mirai.

    She was sick, she skated badly, she made mistakes and got penalised for them. That's all there is to it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
  13. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ I see you went from confusion, to clarity, to a conclusion regarding Mirai's fall deduction. ;)

    In regard to Mirai's scoring, just because we see things somewhat differently, Ziggy, doesn't mean there's a "conspiracy." Mirai is not in USFS' good graces. If she was, the storyline might have been how valiant and hard-working she is, and what a fighter she is for toughing it out through her fp. IMO, Mirai did not skate "badly," but clearly she was not at full strength nor was she completely confident in her fp, but she was determined and she didn't give up.

    USFS was looking for the next star and seized upon Mirai when she was just out of juniors, even before she was old enough to go to Worlds. She was a wonderful skater, but I thought she needed more time to develop and mature before being handed the title. Mirai had a difficult time adjusting the next season with the pressure of the spotlight while going through a growth spurt. Eventually Frank Carroll began coaching Mirai, but it was not the perfect fit apparently although they stayed together for awhile. Meanwhile, USFS became enamored of Rachael Flatt's talent and jump consistency.

    Mirai made the Olympic team in 2010 with Rachael Flatt, and Mirai had the better showing than Rachael overall with a 4th place finish. Then at Worlds that year Mirai went from first place in the sp to 11th place in the fp and seventh overall. The up and down showing at Worlds 2010 seemed to only intensify the pressure, expectations and harshness of the spotlight for Mirai. Added to this were the technical problems, inconsistent performances, and the increasingly strict calls re URs. Mirai missed out on making the World team for two years straight (some fans argue she should have made one or both of those teams). Meanwhile, Mirai's relationship with Frank seemed to deteriorate. In the 2011-2012 season, Mirai looked unhappy and her music and costumes seemed wrong for her at the start of the season. And then the break with Frank occurred, and Mirai has had an uphill battle this season to fight for another chance to fulfill her potential.

    This season Mirai seems happier with her new coaches, and she performed well in the early part of the season. Meanwhile, IMHO, USFS has not had faith in Mirai for awhile. They seemed to completely give up on her last season. There are plenty of other talented U.S. ladies skaters fighting for a position at the top, and so that makes Mirai's battle that much harder. I don't think there were huge expectations from TPTB that Mirai would perform well at Nationals in Omaha. IMO, Mirai was not on their favorite list coming into the championships. Although she performed very well in the sp and placed 3rd, arguably Mirai should have been in 2nd place. Unfortunately, Mirai's illness affected her stamina in the fp, but IMO, she did not skate "badly." Under the circumstances of how she must have felt physically, she skated fairly well. I think her reputation for being inconsistent, her lack of confidence due to illness, plus her reputation for being dinged on URs, and the fact she is no longer a fed favorite all contributed to the negative perceptions and to the harsh scoring of her 2013 Nationals fp. I think Mirai deserved better than 7th place.

    This season Agnes received a bronze and a 5th place on the GP circuit; and Mirai received a bronze and a 4th place on the GP circuit, so their results this season have been fairly comparable. Mirai is over a year older than Agnes so their ages are comparable, but Mirai achieved more success early in her skating career. Agnes has better height and power on her jumps but she struggles with nerves and consistency. Mirai has struggled with pressure, technical problems and a loss of momentum in the last two years. In any case, Mirai had a better overall sp than Agnes, although Agnes did everything well other than her sp fall on the 2-axel. In her fp, Agnes popped a triple into a double, and fell on another jump. Yet Agnes' mistakes still kept her in third place overall. I think Agnes should be no higher than 4th or 5th overall, and that Christina Gao should have placed on the podium in 3rd or no lower than 4th. And Mirai 5th (or certainly no lower than 6th).

    Ashley has achieved so much more than all of the other U.S. ladies competitors in the last year, and she was ahead with her mature and beautifully constructed sp, so I can understand why Ashley was still in first place after her two falls in the fp. But of course, Ashley could just as easily have been more harshly scored.

    In any case, I'll be glad to see Gracie, Christina and Agnes at 4CCs, and Ashley and Gracie battling at Worlds. And I wish Mirai all the best. It is what it is, and it's ultimately how Mirai responds to this disappointing setback that will matter most.
     
  14. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    aftershocks, Mirai in the free skate at 2012 Cup of China really fooled me. Except for one jump I suspected she would get a wrong edge on, I thought all her other jumps had been clean and correctly executed and was unpleasantly surprised to see her scoring as low as 103.70 for her performance. But then I went to read the judges protocols and look what I found on Mirai's score chart for her jump content:

    3Lz<
    2A+3T<<
    3F< e
    3F<+2T+2Lo< e
    3Lo+2T
    2A
    3Lo<<

    Does it mean Mirai is not in the graces of the international technical panels or she actually did make all those mistakes? What do you think?
     
  15. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    If Mirai continues competitive skating, I hope that she will add some energy and brio to her performances, especially the LPs. Her last two LPs had lumbering effects, even if her actual speed was OK. She needs something quick, sparkly. She also needs to learn (as Ashley has) to be expressive and musical. Upbeat tunes can help.

    Mirai needs to show audiences that she is having fun (even if she is not). The Tara Effect (as in Tara vs Michelle, 1998 Nagano).
     
  16. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    I disagree that Mirai cheated every jump in her FP. Her knee was NOT close on her step out with hands down. That was a ludicrous deduction for anyone to take in real time.

    And Gracie did land fowards on her 3t in the SP. The slow mo landing is at 3:51, I believe.

    http://youtu.be/3UimoHOIPI0?t=3m47s
     
  17. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I see sideways landing myself.
     
  18. ambern024

    ambern024 New Member

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    I think the deduction might have been for going over time...unless it said on the protocal that it was for the fall of course. I was there and when i looked at the big screen above us after she was done the time clock was 4:10. I'm assuming ladies long programs are still 4 min long +/- 9 sec. So i think thats where the deduction came from...if not she thankfully escaped that!
     
  19. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

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    I think you should look at the actual protocol. The deduction is identified as a "Fall".
     
  20. ambern024

    ambern024 New Member

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    i didn't....which is why i said "unless it said on the protocol that it was for the fall of course"
     
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  21. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    At the point of takeoff, you see the laces of her boot, head on. When that same boot makes contact with the ice, you see the heel, head on.
     
  22. modern_muslimah

    modern_muslimah Thinking of witty user title and coming up blank

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    You're such a hater. :blah:
     
  23. DarrellH

    DarrellH New Member

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  24. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    I have a radical idea. Let's instruct the judges to judge what they see on the ice, rather than trying to hold anyone down or boost anyone up. Would that be asking too much?
     
  25. Mayra

    Mayra Well-Known Member

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    You missed the part about Mirai's inconsistent training habits and questionable choice(s?) while with Wong and Carroll.

    In a lot of ways, I can't help but agree with Ziggy. If a skater doesn't want to be on the ice and looks like they don't want to be on the ice, why would anyone want to watch that? Why would an organization want to give that skater the benefit of the doubt? Especially when you have a very talented group of girls coming up who want to be at the top, and they are putting in the hours and making sacrifices to get there. How many articles has Mirai had where her coaches talk about her not putting in the training time, her lack of motivation, her teenage angst etc.

    I like Mirai and wish her nothing but the best, but her career thus far is in large part her making(the good and the bad) and she need look no further than that. JMO
     
  26. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Hey, excellent points and everyone may come at this from different perspectives. Sure it's up to Mirai to figure out what she wants. I think she made her choice for the most part and she's been putting in the hard work and battling back. It's just harder to get credit now than when she was a precociously talented youngster who wasn't quite ready for the huge spotlight. I disagree with your opinion that Mirai's career when she was a young, impressionable teenager was "in large part her making (the good and the bad)."


    And regarding perspectives from others re my comments: As I&#8217;ve already said, yes Mirai should try to sell her performances better when she's not feeling good, because her sad expression and body language only adds to negative perceptions by those who already don&#8217;t view her as magnanimously as they used to. ;) One of the rare astute comments that Scott Hamilton made during the NBC broadcast (in reference to Christina Gao btw) was, &#8220;Don&#8217;t sell the negative.&#8221;

    I&#8217;m not saying everyone is out to get Mirai, but they&#8217;re certainly not in a mood to &#8220;do [her] any favors,&#8221; to quote a famous line. Obviously, Mirai is known to be fighting back this season, and she&#8217;s not had great success for the last two seasons, so yes, I don&#8217;t think she&#8217;s in the &#8220;good graces&#8221; of her federation. Outside of her fans and those closest to her, I don&#8217;t think many were looking at Mirai this season with overly high expectations. I do think Mirai carries less &#8220;negative baggage&#8221; with international judges, but unfortunately she does have problems with URs and sometimes they are called fairly, and sometimes the calls are overdone.

    Mirai did perform well on the GP circuit and she managed to position herself as part of the conversation for Nationals. IMO, had Mirai been held in higher esteem by Nationals judges, she would have been in 2nd place after the sp. Clearly the fed favors the powerful jumps and talent of Agnes Z, as even Agnes was surprised at being in second after the sp. Mirai&#8217;s problems with URs (as well as her reputation for having problems and for being repeatedly downgraded), certainly goes against her heavily when the calls are too-close-to-call.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  27. tonyahardly

    tonyahardly Banned Member

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    Mirai has Histrionic Personality Disorder. Her problem isn't with her skating technique as much as it is her mind. Not to fret as most young girls her age grow out of it. I'm surprised Frank didn't snap her out of it. After two seasons of mediocre performances one would think that she'd be humbled enough to grow up. Another case of too much to soon. When you are used to being handed a title it makes it even more difficult to have to work for it. The problem with the post Cohen/Kwan era is that the USFSA was rushing to find the next big star. Scores were inflated under the new judging system. The bar was raised higher but the body wasn't able to keep up even though the mind thought it was. Thus we have a young immature girl like Mirai who really didn't have much competition to rattle her chains until recently. She needs to go back to the drawing board and rework her whole technique. Most of all she needs counseling and to quit being a cry baby.
     
  28. tonyahardly

    tonyahardly Banned Member

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    Mirai has Histrionic Personality Disorder. Her problem isn't with her skating technique as much as it is her mind. Not to fret as most young girls her age grow out of it. I'm surprised Frank didn't snap her out of it. After two seasons of mediocre performances one would think that she'd be humbled enough to grow up. Another case of too much to soon. When you are used to being handed a title it makes it even more difficult to have to work for it. The problem with the post Cohen/Kwan era is that the USFSA was rushing to find the next big star. Scores were inflated under the new judging system. The bar was raised higher but the body wasn't able to keep up even though the mind thought it could. Thus we have a young immature girl like Mirai who really didn't have much competition to rattle her chains until recently. Even reliable Rachel wasn't a threat really. Mirai insisted that it wasn't her time yet. Instead of fighting through her growth spurts she wept. You know the story..Pinky fingers gently sliding the tears into the corners of the eyes! She needs to go back to the drawing board and rework her whole technique. Most of all she needs counseling and to quit being a cry baby and fight! This is what makes a winner and a competitive athlete. If she isn't into skating or competing anymore she should step aside. She's been dinged repeatedly for her ur's yet she hasn't found a way to complete the rotation. You can't be a winner expecting to not do the work. Yeah I know..She had the flu. Excuses again.
     
  29. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    Are you a psychiatrist or psychologist??
     
  30. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    Thanks for posting that diagnosis twice Tonya. :lol:

    I see that from all those court-ordered anger management classes you took that you learned much about psychology. ;)