Where to for Mirai Nagasu now?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by lahaa968, Jan 27, 2013.

  1. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Re "rough, but fair": I'd say that subjectively Mirai should/ could have been in second after the sp over Agnes, and that it looks very bad to have dropped Mirai all the way down to seventh overall taking into account what she did in the sp, and also the fact she wasn't completely horrible in the fp. The deduction in her fp for what looked similar to a Patrick Chan-like "nonfall" is also debatable.

    I do think that both Mirai and Christina should have made a more concerted effort to look happier during and after their skates for what they did well (Mirai toughing it out with illness, and Christina skating a pretty clean fp, albeit with some tense moments). Like Scott Hamilton said after Christina's skate (in fact the only substantive insight he had IMO): "Don't play up the negative." That's something many skaters should take heed of.
  2. Dilng

    Dilng Well-Known Member

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    I don't think she has that "it" factor at all. In fact since Sasha left in 2006 we haven't had a skater with that "it" factor. They have been nice pleasant skaters with some good skills but no one has been exciting. I'm thinking Gracie might change that, but who knows. Mirai was a fun teenager when she first won her National title, but for some time now she has looked bored with skating. I certainly didn't think she had any persosnality at Nationals this year. Yes, she was ill but lots of skaters skate when they are sick, and they do a whole lot better. With Mirai there always seems to be some problem. Last year she didn't do well because of the long commute, this year she was sick next year there will be some other problem. I do agree that maybe it's time for her to do something else. She just doesn't seem that excited about skating anymore.

    As far as her 7th place, it was deserved. This constant complaint that she is being treated badly by the judges is ridiculous. She was third after the short program, so if the judges really didn't like her they could have found a way to place her lower. The truth is she just doesn't have good technique on her jumps and it shows up at the competitions and especially when others do skate better.
  3. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    My complaint, and I believe this is the more common complaint on this board since nationals, is NOT that she was treated badly by judges but that others were treated with much more kindness. Specifcally, UR's ignored, PCS pumped up, etc.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2013
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  4. giselle23

    giselle23 Active Member

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    I was very sad for Mirai and thought that the judging was very unfair, for reasons that others have already articulated. One idea I have for Mirai is for her to skate to Firebird for her long program, the music she skated to for Bebe Liang's entry in that choreography competition. Who is her choreographer these days? Maybe she need a change. I do think she should keep her short program. I also think she should get rid of the over-the-boot tights. I know that sounds trivial, but the white-boot look is classic and just makes a program look so much better on the ice. The real key to Mirai's future is totally out of her hands because it depends so much on the US getting three spots for the Olympics.
  5. Leeedward

    Leeedward New Member

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    You cover it all. Echos my assessment 100 percent. Time is short. She has no more time to waste. (I might add that there is not another skater that I wish & hope for success more than Mirai. As talented as she is, she must not doubt or dawdle in her resolve to be the best. )
  6. B.Cooper

    B.Cooper New Member

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    I think the largest limiting factor for Nagasu is finances. Plain and simple. If she can not afford to move away from home, she has to find what works for her locally.
  7. change of edge

    change of edge New Member

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    I agree that she seems to have significant problems with underrotations now, but there was definitely a time when she seemed to have already fixed them. Take 2011 4CC for example. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HGYZYnxy6s

    All the jumps looked clean and fully rotated. I think what's frustrating for her is that she knows she's capable of rotating them, but it doesn't happen. During nationals you could tell that she knew she was underrotating jumps and it just took the spark out of her performance.

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  8. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    She looks lighter there than she has for the last couple seasons. Even a just a few extra pounds can make a lot of difference in successful jumping.

    I'd agree she doesn't have as much "it" as Sasha, but when she is skating confidently she does have an extra sparkle and natural style that makes her more watchable than most. I think that's why folks are so frustrated with her. Someone up thread said she is putting in more training hours nowadays than she did in recent years, so I guess we can still hope. It isn't really fair to write her off after an event where she was sick.
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  9. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    She always seems thoroughly bored with herself when she is skating. So much for "it" factor.
  10. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    I thought she looked fine during her SP. She gave more personality than people seem to be giving her credit for. It felt a little guarded when I watched her on Ice Network, but once I watched NBC's broadcast I noticed a bit more spark and energy from her in that performance.

    Her LP was a bit flat but I'd attribute that not only to nerves but her illness. It's not an excuse really b/c the program, while a massive step up from that choreographic abortion "Spartacus", was not that entertaining or exciting...but to be fair very few people had good LPs that night in terms of choreography. Take Gracie: if her jumps were MIA like in the SP, her performance would have fallen flat too b/c not only was her program blah, but she was devoid of emotion throughout the majority it. Her jumps make her exciting...as far as choreography and performing, I'd put her right in line with the rest of the debuting seniors, and behind quite a few of them. Mirai hasn't had a good LP in a very long time...probably since Carmen. And her Carmen wasn't anything spectacular to be honest, it was just delivered very well which made it stand out.

    I know Mirai had mistakes in the LP but, to reiterate what people have said several times, I feel as though she was punished more for her mistakes than others were punished for theirs. It's like the judges/callers turned their heads the other way for mistakes made by Ashley, Gracie and Agnes; however, any mistakes made by Mirai were penalized. It'd be fine if everyone had been scored fairly across the board...but when one skater is hit hard for mistakes while others skim by, it calls the whole competition into question b/c the judging is supposed to be impartial or at least consistent. There were inconsistencies with the judging of nationals this year and, unfortunately, Mirai got the short end of the stick...
  11. giselle23

    giselle23 Active Member

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    Having Frank by her side didn't help her at 2010 Worlds, where she ended up in 7th, I think, after being 1st in the short program. It was a very similar situation to the result this year at Nationals.
  12. change of edge

    change of edge New Member

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    This years nats really is a similar situation to 2010 worlds. Both competitions she ended up mid-170s and was just about three points (one downgrade!) away from a medal.
  13. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    Yes, not everyone has wealthy parent's, and can follow coaches' all over the country........
  14. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Please, no more conspiracy theories. Nagasu cheated her jumps more then 1/4 (1/2 on loop) so she got penalised. The other skaters you mentioned didn't. So they didn't get penalised.
  15. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    How animated would you look if you skated sick?!
  16. loulou

    loulou Well-Known Member

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    How sad. If true, then what a huge difference it could make if US federation would step up in similar situations. People would not only have the means, but feel the boost. On the other hand, having to fight an unfair battle can be disheartening.

    We often forget athlete should commpete in figure skating, not coach catching, image PRing, or nerve holding. Some thrive under pressure, but some flourish when supported. And it would be nice, for a change, if everyone was given the best possible conditions to be the best skater they can be.
  17. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Of course. But I meant in general and not just at 2013 US Nationals.
  18. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

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    IIRC, Frank offered her a place to stay gratis with a local family in Palm Springs to cut down on her commute, but she (or her family) refused it. So I'm not sure how much finances were/are the issue. It's also not clear if she turned it down, or her parents (there was speculation her mom didn't want her to move away).
  19. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    Oh Ziggy, I love you but but but THEY DID cheat their jumps more than 1/4!

    Gracie's foot came down FORWARDS on the 3t in her sp combo. She was only hit with a < instead of a <<.

    Ashley's lutz was dubious at best. It should have been <. The loop that she fell on, I can't tell.

    Agnes - I'll be honest and say I don't care enough to watch over and over. (! bad coco! she's such a nice person!)

    But back to the original point, all the downgrades that happened at US Nationals were NOT called. Why were some skaters called and others weren't? I don't see a vendetta or a plan to sink someone in the standings, but I bet there is some pre-judging going on. It's cognitive psych 101 that you see what you expect to see or want to see.

    There should be random computer generated reviews in addition to the voluntary caller driven reviews.

    If you are only looking for the 9 velociraptors you created, you're never going to find out about all the baby velociraptors they are making. :) (That's a Jurassic Park reference. I love me some Jeff Goldblum.)
  20. acraven

    acraven Active Member

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    Based on the information provided on Skate Radio, a very large number of the ladies' triples were reviewed for underrotation by the technical panel. I don't have any reason to think that they applied different standards to different skaters. There is only one camera used for the video reviews, however, so some iffy jumps could get a pass because of the angle of view.

    Mirai was working hard on a number of difficult combinations in the practices: 2A3T, 3T3T, 3F3T, and even 3Lz3T. The jumps looked rotated or barely under to the naked eye, though to be sure I'd need a video I could look at frame-by-frame. The rotation definitely looked sharper than in what I saw at last year's practices. However, triple-triples are very hard to rotate, and you never know what will happen under the pressure of competition. I was very pleased that Mirai got full credit for the 3T3T in the short program, but I was concerned about the longer free skate since it was reported that she had gotten sick the week before Nationals, and some respiratory symptoms were still evident.

    If Mirai continues with her training regimen and is healthy for next year's Nationals, she can be much higher in the standings in Boston.
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  21. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Mirai needs to just address the URs, if she can fix those, the judges will still reward her skating with good scores. I don't know if the URs are due to her technique or how her body has changed since the Olympics. I know in the past couple seasons, some people questioned her fitness, but she looks very fit and in shape now, but she is a noticeably bigger person than she was at the 2010 Olympics when she looked pretty willowy and fairly similar in build to Yuna. Perhaps more off-ice training could help with the URs too, if it were an option, switching to Christy Krall and getting the help of dartfish could maybe be what she needs to correct some of her iffy jump landings. But I'm sure the finances are a limiting factor. Having the flu doesn't help either. She has made noticeable improvements this season though and she had a great SP at Nationals so she should be proud of herself. If she wants to continue skating past 2014 I think she should, but if she also wants to stop and try other things, then that is fine too, she's an Olympian and was fantastic at the 2010 Olympics, also won Nationals at 14 and won the SP at Worlds at 16, so even if she was at the "peak" of her career at a very young age, no one can deny that her accomplishments are very impressive.
  22. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    ^^^
    Well put!

    Mirai has a more womanly figure now post-Olympics and there's nothing she can do about that except to keep in top condition. And train train train those jumps!
  23. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    It must stink to have to skate with the flu. Actually, 2 ladies were hit by viruses.
    Mirai suffered from the flu virus, ( Influenza A H3N2 ). :(
    ....................... while Caroline suffered from the screw virus, ( Techcallerous ridiculi ). :mad:
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2013
  24. loulou

    loulou Well-Known Member

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    If finances are an issue, then federation financial support and a private fix are two different things and can't be accepted in the same way, even if both provide a roof over your head.
  25. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    I believe this originated as hearsay info posted in the Golden Skate forum in February 2012 and was copied over here: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3473978&postcount=244
    I also mentioned it in this U.S. Ladies thread last year and there was some discussion here: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/sho...rything-else&p=3512678&viewfull=1#post3512678
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2013
  26. UMBS Go Blue

    UMBS Go Blue KWEEN 2016! YES WE KWAN!

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    Finally watched my DVR recording of the ladies' free skate and was absolutely heartbroken when I saw Mirai crumbling to pieces like she did in the kiss-and-cry. :fragile:

    Cheer up, Mirai, get well, and come back stronger than ever (if that's what you want). (((hugs)))
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  27. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    The strange thing is that I thought Mirai was doing well during her free. It was only her expression that told me something was wrong. That and her scores.
  28. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    Mirai has been getting hit with UR calls since 2010 when she much slimmer and before her body changed. It's been a problem since her Junior days actually.
  29. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I know, which is why I think the root of the issue maybe stems from her jump technique. It's not textbook, and while he jumps look nice in the air and she gets good height on them, she's had a tendency to hook and cheat her landings most of her career, and that's going to be hard to fix without somewhat of a technique overhaul. That's why I recommended Christy Krall because I think she could maybe help Mirai clean up her jumps, although I assume Mirai is not planing on moving to Colorado Springs anytime soon so it might be a moot point. Even so, it probably is even harder to make sure the jumps are around now that she's built like a strong woman instead of a little girl, or even a wiry teenager like she was at the Olympics. But technique is where the issue stems from I'm pretty sure. I remember when she won Nationals, she had a lot of URed jumps, she got called for some of them then, but now panels are much stricter, and the same skate now would have likely had almost all of those jumps marked down.
  30. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I have a feeling whether the U.S regains a 3rd spot will play a large part in her decision whether to come back for one final amateur season or not.
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  31. change of edge

    change of edge New Member

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    I think she's going to go for it. The "what if" factor would probably be too great for her to live with if she stopped now.

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  32. apatinar

    apatinar New Member

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    well, she already has been to the Olympics so it's not like she never will have the chance to skate on Olympic ice.. Even if she makes it to Sochi, she will be lower than the 4th she placed in Vancouver..
  33. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    She doesn't look to me like she is in top condition, nor has she been for a couple years. I'm not talking about her muscles or curves, I am looking at her upper arms and the tops of her thighs and see no muscle definition. To be at optimal fitness for this sport, she needs a lower percentage of body fat. I am in no way suggesting she is fat by normal standards, but every sport has an optimal strength to weight ratio and I don't think she is at that optimal point.
  34. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Well clearly a number of ladies were screwed, and some others were gifted. ;) Seems to be the way of it in figure skating. I guess the thing is to rise above that dastardly "screw virus."


    ETA:
    Looking at the ladies event again, I think Mirai should have been in second after the sp, and maybe in 5th after the fs, but certainly no lower than 6th overall. I don't know how many downgrades she rec'd in her fs, but I think they overdid it if she received more than two, plus she shouldn't have been hit with a full point deduction on the fallout (Mirai touched two hands down, but did not fall on the ice like Agnes did in both her sp and fs). IMO, Christina Gao deserved to be on the podium.
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2013
  35. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    That fall deduction was weird because according to the rules, she didn't fall.
  36. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Yes, that's what I was referring to, so clearly the judges seemed to be looking for ways to take Mirai down wherever possible. I'm not saying Mirai doesn't need to continue to improve and to try putting on a happier, more upbeat face in the midst of not feeling well and struggling for a program. But IMO, Mirai did not skate horribly in the fs, especially knowing she was battling for the program under the effects of flu. There's the fact too that Mirai arguably should have placed second in the sp. Taking all of this into consideration, and knowing that others in USFS good graces were treated more kindly, it's quite obvious that Mirai was not being given credit where credit was due.

    It's as if Mirai was pre-judged and not expected to do well in either of her programs. Conversely and ironically, USFS was overly eager to rush Mirai up the ladder and over-reward her when she debuted in seniors as a young teenager.
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
  37. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    She has already been to an Olympics and placed 4th, a height she will almost certainly never reach again, and has been 6th and 7th at the last 2 Nationals, and hasnt even made it to Worlds since 2010. What `what if` factor is there really. If she U.S gets the 3rd spot I could see her taking her shot to fight for it, but even with the U.S having 3 spots she would be a major long shot at this point. If the U.S has only 2 spots forget it, no chance, and I think she knows that too and would surely not even bother then. However with 3 spots she might take a crack at it, as much of a long shot as it still would be now.
  38. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    There is that 4th place Olympic finisher ladies curse!

    Tiffany Chin
    Jill Trenary
    Tonya Harding
    Surya Bonaly
    Maria Butyrskaya
    Sasha Cohen
    Fumie Suguri
    Mirai Nagasu

    I have hope for Mirai, but she fits ominously in this field of ladies 4th placers. They all share some sort of subsequent Olympic disappointment.
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2013
  39. modern_muslimah

    modern_muslimah Well-Known Member

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    Well, Sasha did win an Olympic silver medal. :shuffle:

    As for Mirai, I hope she's in a good space and inspired. She tweeted this today:

    &#8207;
  40. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    I hope it wasn't a Britney Spears cut.