Where to for Mirai Nagasu now?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by lahaa968, Jan 27, 2013.

  1. lahaa968

    lahaa968 Active Member

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    When Mirai finished her free skate tonight, I was truly happy for her. Besides the step out on the triple flip, I thought everything was clean, and I was thinking she would score somewhere in the 120-125 range. When I saw 109 on my TV screen, I screamed and almost lost it. I had my heart in my mouth :angryfire:scream::confused:. I can go on endlessly on my opinion of how it was rigged, how she was unfairly punished, and all:soapbox:...but it's useless trying to change what can't (the results).

    I started this thread because I'm curious to hear (and brainstorm!) what Nagasu needs to do to get back to the form that got her in 1st place after the short program at the World Championships in 2010. I love her and her skating so much, and I truly want her to succeed...Is her career a lost cause? Is USFSA black-bombing her to make way for new talent? What does she need to do? Was it just terrible, terrible luck to be feeling ill during Nationals? Just curious to hear everyone's opinions.
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  2. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I mentioned this before but I think her career peaked in 2010-2011. That said if she keeps working hard, and really works hard on those jumps especialy, and getting more life into her presentation again maybe she could have a shot at the 3rd spot on the Olympic team next year if the U.S regains a 3rd (Wagner and Gold are going to Sochi barring a disaester) and then if she is willing to keep going from there and keep working hard maybe she could shine after 2014. She seems to be recommited this year, but whether it is too little too late, well hard to say, like I said I think after 2014 would be her next possible window to really shine, and she would need a decent season next year to even set herself up for that. It depends how hard she is willing to keep working, if she is successful continuing to make the changes and improvements needed, and how much patience and perseverance she has.
  3. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I too love Mirai and I hated the 109 she got for that LP. IMO she did expect to lose to Ashley because not only did she have that mistake on the 3f, but she also ur'ed 2 jumps I think (haven't seen the replay). She looked very disappointed when she finished, but I was hoping that she could still medal- whether she makes the world team or not. IMO dropping her from 3rd to 7th place was cruel, and that's how the politics are.

    It seems the USFSA has given up on Mirai. The only way she can reestablish herself is what Ashley did. Start skating consistently well, especially in the GP series until the USFSA starts taking notice. She has so much talent. All she needs is a coach who believes in her, and a choreographer who brings out her finer points.
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  4. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    Mirai is only 19. She has had to get used to body changes both before and after the 2010 Olympics. Her star was starting to rise again this fall. She had an unfortunate bout with the flu just a week ago. You could tell from her press conference that she was still nursing a cold. Her voice sounded scratchy too. The SP wasn't a problem but I knew the FS would be. I think she fought through pretty darn well considering. That being said-I don't like her FS. I'm not in love with her SP but it's okay. Okay however isn't good enough. She's got to find better choreographers and come up with Olympic worthy programs. And she's got to just keep working hard just as Ashley did. She could really use Wagner as her model if she wanted to and Kostner as well. Both improved massively in their 20s as did Czisny. Slutskaya overcame a heart issue and IIRC Lu Chen overcame a disastrous skate the year prior to the Olympics and came back to win bronze. While there is life, youth, and health all of which Mirai has on her side there is a chance. I believe in second, even third and fourth chances. Mirai should let herself grieve a little and then get over it. The Olympics are next year and if she REALLY wants it she's going to have to just keep fighting for it.

    ETA: One of the articles on Mirai mentioned that she was trying to get back to the little girl who had the dream of winning a medal at the Olympics. In the same article she went on to say that her current choreographer is giving her programs that worked for her when she became National champion. I remember she spoke of 'balletic' programs for the FS. I think Mirai should be careful there. She needs to look to the fresh, innovative programs of some of the other skaters at their best. Mirai's own Pirates program of the Olympic season remains, imo, her best to date. She needs to try and find something that will bring that spark back into her programs. I also wish she would re-think some of her costumes. The FS dress was nice (at least on tv), the SP not so great imo. Others she has worn this season haven't been that great either. I'm also worried that funding will be a problem for her now. That might limit her choices in choreographers and styling.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013
  5. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    ITA that Mirai's best program was her Pirates program.

    I really, really hate to say this, because I feel like it's crummy, but I think leaving Frank Carroll really hurt her, politically speaking. It's hard, because she seems to have a great relationship with Amy and Wendy, but I feel like leaving Frank was a "bad thing" in USFS' book. Stupid, because she seems a lot happier and freer now.
  6. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I agree and it stupid. Frank is a legend but a very old coach who has to retire soon I would think, and currently has no noteworthy pupils anymore except for one who will spend 3 years talking about a comeback that never happens. It should not be a death knall to leave him these days at all, and if it for the USFSA it is only further evidence of the blockheads they often are.
  7. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Watching the skates again though I cant say she was robbed or 7th was wrong. Everyone who beat her apart from Wagner and Zawadzki skated pretty much clean while she had mistakes.
  8. lahaa968

    lahaa968 Active Member

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    :kickass:
  9. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    Wow-I hadn't even thought of the Frank angle! That could be very true but what could Mirai do? She didn't do well when she was commuting four hours a day to and from Frank's rink. And perhaps financially she might no longer be able to afford him. There was definite politiking at this event-and it hurt Mirai the most imo.

    :D

    OT but some fans on twitter are really letting US Figure Skating have it regarding Mirai! :eek:
  10. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that it was rigged and I don't think that she was unfairly punished.

    Pretty much everybody has delivered very strong performances whilst Nagasu has made a number of errors.

    You might have thought that everything other than the flip was clean but it wasn't. Nagasu has cheated a number of jumps and this is something that has always plagued her and has intensified recently.

    The question is: Can it be changed at this point?

    I think it can. She is still young and it would take a lot of hard work and maybe even taking a year off but I believe that it's something that can be addressed. She just needs to accept that this is an issue and commit to re-working her jump technique.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013
  11. worldsnice12

    worldsnice12 New Member

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    Well,I certainly hope that she will continue towards Sochi and even after.
    I do find it heartbreaking to hear how she cried after her LP (have not seen her program yet). For me,she seemed like a different person this year and working harder than ever to get back on that podium.
    After a while, I hope she will be able to focus on all the good things that she actually did this season..getting that 3/3 under the belt for her SP,a great 3rd place finish at NHK (should have been 2nd imo..) and some lovely moments in all her LP's..flying high on her 3Z's,trying the 2A/3T (every time!),some beautiful choreography in the end into her lovely layback and finally some fighting spirit despite not being in top shape..I still believe she is a late season bloomer and to see her doing well on the GP circuit this year was a bit of a surprise (in a good way!)
  12. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    She was sick and had no energy to properly present her programs or rotate her jumps. That's all. I don't want to hear about a downward slide or political loss of respect being with the wrong coach, that's all rubbish. That said, some time with Krall or Zayak could help her dramatically, just to really figure out her jumping issues so she can do them in her sleep. I really couldn't have expected anything better than what she put out last night- that was amazing given the circumstances.
  13. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    Regarding funding- http://www.usfsa.org/Athletes.asp?id=350

    Envelope B

    Placements 11th and lower at the 2013 ISU World Figure Skating Championships
    Placements 2nd-4th in the senior events at the 2013 U.S. Figure Skating Championships
    Placements 4th-6th at the ISU Senior Grand Prix Final in the 2012-13 season
    Placements 2nd-3rd at the 2013 ISU Four Continents Championships
    Placements 1st-3rd at the 2013 ISU World Junior Championships
    2013 U.S. Junior Champion
    Placements 1st-3rd at the ISU Junior Grand Prix Final in the 2012-13 season
    Placements 1st-3rd at any of the six ISU Senior Grand Prix competitions in the 2012-13 season
    World Team 1st Alternate in the 2012-13 season
    Placement 5th in the senior events at the 2013 U.S. Figure Skating Championships
  14. OnyxRose81

    OnyxRose81 Active Member

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    She wasn't robbed...she just made so many mistakes. Do I think she could have been placed higher? Maybe; I think some skaters get the benefit of the doubt but Mirai will never do so. Oh, well. The best two are going to Worlds.
  15. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps Mirai can re-use POTC and Carmen LP for next year's Nationals/Olympic trail. She looked great in the SP, but that program as a whole wasn't memorable like POTC was.
  16. Spareoom

    Spareoom Well-Known Member

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    It's hard to remember that Mirai really is so young, considering that she's been skating senior for what, six years? Maybe she'll be like Ashely and be a late bloomer...who knows.

    Either way, I felt worse seeing her reaction then I did her skate. She seemed to take it really hard, which guts me because that LP wasn't something to be devastated about. She can do better, but she can (and has!) done far, far worse. Considering everything, I thought it was a good effort and I hope she feels better about it soon.
  17. LuckyCharm

    LuckyCharm Well-Known Member

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    Her reaction wasn't to her skate. It was to her marks. She had done what she appeared to think was a pretty great program, her best in a long time, then proceeded to get her ass handed to her by the judges. She probably felt like "What more can I possibly do?" The answer is "Clean up your damn URs!" I was proud and impressed to see her skate without a total meltdown. Despite her placement, I think she's a better skate than she was last year, and she has another year to work out the kinks and make it back to the Olympics. I still think her current coaching situation is a good fit for her. They need to buckle down and focus on her technique and come back strong.
  18. modern_muslimah

    modern_muslimah Well-Known Member

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    This. I love Mirai. She's my favorite ladies skater at the moment. However, even I could tell that a number of jumps were cheated. Reworking her jump technique is what she needs to work on. When she gets nervous or loses stamina, she cheats her jumps. That kills her TES and then she takes herself out of the running for a number of titles. This problem seemed to get better under Frank Carroll but it has returned with a vengeance now that she switched coaches. She's been plagued by cheated jumps in her LP all season. Next season, she does need to look at reworking her jump technique. It might cost her at least a season but it could be worth it in the long run. If Mirai had more confidence in her jumping technique (and overall) it might help the performance aspect of her skating as well.

    BTW, I don't think she should switch coaches. Maybe work with some other coaches during the summer but keep her primary coaches.
  19. emma1227

    emma1227 New Member

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    Mirai is amazing, her jumps need serious tweaking. This has been a problem for years. Frank made progress with her. Sadly once you have a rep for urs you are always going to be a target by judges.
  20. Louis

    Louis Tinami 2012

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    Aside from the obviously underrotated jumps, the program had no energy at all. I was sad to see someone who can have such captivating presentation basically just go through the motions while skating to (IMO) heavy music. Not the best program choice or choreography.

    Placement was rough, but fair.
  21. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    I do have to say, though, that I love her LP music and, in theory, it should have been good for her. It's a really nice piece.

    Overall, I'm just bummed that it ended so badly and, honestly, that she went from seeming so happy to seeming so miserable.
  22. jamcan

    jamcan New Member

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    :respec:
    ITA....2 footed a ton of jumps in that program.
  23. jamcan

    jamcan New Member

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    YUP!!!
  24. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I don't know why anyone is shocked by her LP score considering just on how fire everyone save the last three skaters were at Nationals. This was the best-skated Nationals in a long time. I feel worse for someone like Zhang to be honest. To go from 4th at Nationals to 11th has to be rough despite whether she deserved to be that low.
  25. modern_muslimah

    modern_muslimah Well-Known Member

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    While I didn't really like her LP this season, I do wonder if the issue is really her thinking so much about the jumps. The last time I can remember Mirai really having good presentation in her LP was during the 2010 Olympics. Ever since, it's like she is working through her LP. Maybe the choreography for her LPs in this quadrennial hasn't been the greatest but Mirai hasn't tried to sell it either. How many skaters have we seen with mediocre or just bad choreography who are still able to sell the heck out of it? Even though their choreography may be bad, they're still invested in it. Mirai doesn't seem invested in her choreography anymore. Maybe it's a combination of competition nerves (I always wonder if her LPs have more spirit during practice), heavy programs, thinking too much and other factors.

    I just hope she and her team are able to sort out her issues and get her back to her former form. She's too good to not at least medal at Nationals.
  26. Scrufflet

    Scrufflet Active Member

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    Slightly off topic perhaps but I was disgusted by the cameraperson who zeroed in on her heartbreak (practically gfilming up her nostril) and then following her backstage. What next? Into the washroom and the stall? Why this horrible need to see someone in such misery?
  27. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    I think lots of good points have been made, starting with
    Ever since she started to grow/develop, she has had a problem with underrotations. Her basic technique looks pretty good, but she just cannot get high enough and/or rotate fast enough to get the triples around.

    I don't think she is being punished for "leaving Frank" per se. After all, it was really him who left her. If she is being punished, it is for the general perception that she is simply not giving it her all. I guess not being willing to follow your coach is part of that (Kristi Y moved all the way to Canada when her coach moved). To me, Mirai has for some time looked like she does not work hard enough on off-ice conditioning and would benefit from dropping just a few pounds. At this level, skating needs to be your full-time job. That means spending at least 6 (7 or 8 is better) hours a day skating, training dance, and doing off ice weights/aerobics.

    IMO what she mostly needs is to grow up mentally/emotionally. She needs to decide how much she wants it and that means growing up and moving past her childhood. So far, she has not shown that she is willing to sacrifice much for the sake of her skating. Still at home with Mom and Dad, working with her childhood coach instead of finding the best available coach wherever he/she is, still looking like she could be in better shape, still working with a fairly weak dressmaker, etc, etc. Wagner's career didn't really start to take off until she moved across the country to work with her new coach. I think it reflected a mental commitment to leave her safety zone, stop hedging her bets, give up the other things in life to better focus on her skating career. Nagasu has yet to show that kind of commitment.
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  28. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    We don't know why Nagasu doesn't leave home. We do know that she's training substantially longer hours than she was under Frank.
  29. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Mirai was clearly sick and did not have the energy to do the jumps, that's all. Instead of withdrawing she decided to give it a shot. I don't think she deserves harsh comments at this time.

    Go Mirai! Show them next season what you really are.
  30. icellist

    icellist Member

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    I really do blame the cold/sniffle/flu for her placement. I can't help but feel that her coaching situation well get better because both of her coaches seem committed. I do hope she gets a better choreographer: Susan Austin or Sarah Kawahara? She's going to come back strongly next season. [I wish Mirai will be named first alternate to 4CC and Ashley will withdraw so she can go... Or even let Agnes, Christina and Mirai go to 4CC]

    Ashley is going to need to find a new coach because Nicks is most likely retiring. That might derail Ashley in the Olympic year and lose consistency.
  31. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I wish Nicks would continue as Ashley's coach for one more year.
  32. PinkFeathers

    PinkFeathers Active Member

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    Was more horrified by the way they had Mirai crying in one side of the camera, and Ashley smirking off to the side. Obviously she wasn't smirking over Mirai's pain (unless she was :scream: ) but it looked heartless and tacky. Then again, it's NBC... what can you expect?
  33. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    I hope Nicks stays by Ashley through Sochi.
  34. jamcan

    jamcan New Member

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    :huh: I've not read any 'harsh' comments here. She two foots and under rotates her jumps. That's the truth whether people want to see/hear it or not....
  35. burntBREAD

    burntBREAD Active Member

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    Recent articles such as this one http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130118&content_id=41031332&vkey=ice_news seem to suggest that Mirai is really working hard to get into better shape, not to mention the small documentary put up by AT&T which shows her coaches training her quite hard. Perhaps this time it was simply the fact that she had the flu that really affected her.
  36. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I am referring to her being sick. She did not two foot or ur in the SP. I give her the benefit of doubt and say that had she not been sick, she might not have had those problems. You are judging her on the past performances, and not this one.
  37. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

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    I like Mirai, and I felt bad for her last night. But all technical errors aside, you can't get away from the fact that she skated that program without a single facial expression. Not one.

    Mirai has been doing this a long time. She has to know that you can't skate a program completely deadpan and not get dinged for it. I know she wasn't well, but she could have at least tried to look the tiniest bit interested in what she was doing. Other skaters weren't well and they at least made an effort.
  38. modern_muslimah

    modern_muslimah Well-Known Member

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    There have been quotes from both Mirai and her coaches that she increased her off-ice training this season.

    I don't get this comment at all. Lots of 19 year olds still live with their parents. How is Mirai being immature by living at home? She trains close to her home as do lots of other skaters. Plus, last season she sacrificed a lot of training time making the commute to train with FC and it didn't work.

    Re: Ashley. What works for one skater may not work for others. Moving to the other side of the country worked wonders for Ashley but there's no guarantee that it will do the same for Mirai. There are plenty of skaters who uproot themselves and their skating does not improve at all. The skaters have to do what they think is best for them. Sometimes that means staying close to home. Other times it means moving across a country or even the world.

    All of these skaters seem to put in hours everyday to skate. It's a full time job. Mirai also mentioned in another interview stopping college courses because it interrupted training. That doesn't seem like the action of someone who isn't committed. Mirai has some weaknesses but this season, at least, lack of commitment and lack of training do not appear to be one of them.
  39. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    And we don't know if her family could afford such a move.


    ^^^
    THIS!

    Mirai was not the only one who had questionable jumps-but she seemed to one of the few to get nailed for them. As to her dead-pan expression, Gracie had it too. She looked terrified in the SP and tense in the FS. Her face was a blank until she landed her jumps and she did not project at all. But she still received curiously high PCS scores (including 9s which were especially obsurd). Ashley's 2 fall FS should not have garnered such high PCS scores as well but I do think she was the better skater overall than Gold when you include the SP.
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  40. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

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    No, she really didn't. Gracie's facial expressions need a lot of work, but at least she had some.