When two good pairs are broken to create a better pair

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vash01, Aug 23, 2011.

  1. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    The result can be magical if two seemingly good pairs are broken and a new pair is created (the reasons and circumstances were quite different in most cases), like

    Volosozhar- Morozov and Mukhartova-Trankov were split to create Volosohar-Trankov. Result: World silver

    Other examples:

    Petrova-Sikharulidze and Berezhnaya-Shliakov were broken and the magical pair Berezhnaya-Sikharulidze was formed. Result: 2 world championships and an OGM

    Stiegler-Zimmerman and Ina-Dungjen were broken to form Ina-Zimmerman, who had much more success.

    In the USA there are a lot of 'musical pairs'- changing partners. Not all have had success.

    Meno-Wentland(sp?) and Kuchiki-Sand were broken to form Meno&Sand who won a world silver and a couple of world bronzes (Kuchiki & Sand had also won two world bronzes)

    Jamie Sale and her former partner (his name eludes me) skated in the 1994 Olympics. I don't know who Pelletier's partner was before he paired up with Jamie, but that was another very successful pair.

    The other partner was not always successful, e.g. Kuchiki and Wentland- their pairs careers ended at that point. Mukhartova is in danger too. Dungjen turned pro and started skating with his wife Yuka Sato, but his eligible career ended at that point.

    Occasionally the opposite can happen too. Obertas had much more success with the partner she left (I forgot his name) to skate with Slavnov,and their lack of success was not entirely Slavnov's fault.
     
  2. Cloudy_Gumdrops

    Cloudy_Gumdrops New Member

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    Alexei Sokolov. I loved Obertas & Sokolov. Had they not broken up I really think they would've been world medalists one day. They were the third Russian pair at the time after T&M and P&T. They had placed 4th in the SP at 03 Worlds, so the judges obviously liked them.

    But yeah, what the heck happened to Julia after pairing with Slavnov? She regressed and became a headcase who couldn't jump at all.
     
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  3. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    Aliona Savchenko used to skate with Morozov (Volosozhar's former partner), but I don't know who Robin skated pairs with. Was it a good pair? Definitely the new formation has been a huge success.
     
  4. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Kuchiki & Sand won only one World bronze in 1991. They dropped backwards to 6th place at both the Olympics and Worlds next year then split.

    Sale's partner at the 94 Olympics and Worlds was Jason Turner. They placed 12th in Lillehammer and 16th at the Worlds. He was so much weaker a skater than her it was startling, she reportedly dumped him since she knew she could do alot better and figured it would be easy to find a better partner after her breakthrough season.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibnYU6RxjQo&feature=channel_video_title

    Jamie then skated singles for 4 years before teaming with David, coming 4th and 6th at the Canadians in 95 and 98 but only due to the horrible womens field in Canada as her jumping was terrible for a singles skater (expected as it was even weak for a top ladies pairs skater), also failing to even qualify for Canadians the two years in between showing what a crapshoot Canadian women were that quad.

    Pelletier's partner before Jamie was Allison Gaylor who he placed 2nd at the 95 Canadians with and competed at the 95 Worlds. They dropped to 5th and 6th the next 2 years, then split.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2thz4PIZWS0

    David skated with some tiny very young girl I forget for the 97-98 season, then paired with Jamie. David also placed 4th and 6th in singles at the 95 and 96 Canadians, but was 2nd after the short program at the 95 Canadians and almost made it to Worlds in both pairs and singles. As a singles skater he never had a triple axel and struggled with consistency with both the triple lutz and flip.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2011
  5. Finnice

    Finnice Well-Known Member

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    Claudia Rausenbach. (sp) They were 9th in Junior Worlds 2001.
     
  6. Jot the Dot Dot

    Jot the Dot Dot Headstrong Buzzard

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    Oops, that's Dance, not pairs! Shoulda read the fine print......
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2011
  7. Rock2

    Rock2 Well-Known Member

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    His jumps were actually really good (not sure if he had the loop though). He often did two flips and two lutzes on the long so he was bound to miss some especially since he had to divide his time with pairs.

    David skated with Caroline Roy at the 98 nats which I attended. He sat like 3 seats down from me at one of the events. I so desperately wanted to tell him to keep his chin up because it was clear he was so talented...but he looked so down and almost angry the whole time you could just tell he was lost. Decided to keep my trap shut.

    I had the fortune of sitting next to a top Canadian skater on a flight once and we talked about Jamie and Dave. This was around 2000. This skater told me that Jamie and Dave tried out together in 96 (common knowledge) but he basically shut her down, saying to call him when she gets a consistent triple toe and loses 10 lbs. Basically wouldn't talk to her until that happened...in the 98 season. The 3T was the only jump she landed in the singles competition that year.
     
  8. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    My understanding is that the reason Ina and Dungjen split in the first place was that he wanted to turn pro and she wanted to continue competing. So they were pretty much equally successful in getting what they each wanted -- it just wasn't the same thing.
     
  9. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    I think often times the first few parters most people have is just for practice until you find the right one. Most skaters have at least 2 or 3 partners before they get the one see results with.

    In the case of Julia Obertas, I blame her coaches for most of the bad parter picking, they never gave her one she looked great with, also she liked to get involved with them and that can't be an easy working relationship if it ever went bad personally. She could have been great.

    Often times a great partner falls in right their lap and they have great results; other times a great skater is left to find a parter (to no avail) or just retire.
     
  10. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    That sounds a little nasty, what he said in '96..
     
  11. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I think David was tired of always having female partners who missed all their jumps, and Jamie at one time didnt even have a consistent 3toe or 2axel (well she never did really, lol). So I can understand his apprehension. Of course if he had a crystal ball and could see that 4 or 5 years down the road due to massive politics Jamie was allowed to miss 2 out of 3 jumps per competition and still have them win every event they were in, he probably would have taken her on sooner, but that is a whole other topic.
     
  12. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    What about Anissina&Peizerat ?
     
  13. shady82

    shady82 Active Member

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    Yes and no, I would say. Anissina's pairing with Peizerat instead of Averbukh did lead to a lot of success, but Ilia was already a strong dancer to begin with, definitely at Marina's level.

    I've always wondered how Fusar-Poli would've fared with a partner more at her level. Maybe with Peter Tchernyshev?
     
  14. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    My understanding was that Ina essentially dumped him because she wanted to skate with John Zimmerman who had recently dumped his injured partner Stephanie Stiegler.
     
  15. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    I purposely avoided the ice dance couples and limited this to pairs because we see a lot of switching of partners in ice dance; less so in pairs (though in the USA that is quite common place; pairs don't stick together very long).
     
  16. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I read in International Skating Magazine at the time it was a conflict with the coach. Your suggestions sounds more feasible though. Him getting injured and having to miss Worlds and problems with the coach, probably made it easier for her to do as desired and ditch him.

    Zimmerman also did not dump Stiegler though. I remember reading he was upset since she dumped him while off injured. He was quoted at the time as saying he was really dissapointed since he thought they would have a great career together.
     
  17. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

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    Natasha Kuchiki did almost make the 94 Olympic/World team with Rocky Marval (4th at Nationals).
     
  18. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    Peizerat had also done well with his previous partner, Marina Morel. Anissina/Averbukh won jr worlds in 1990 and 1992, and placed fourth in 1991, the year Morel/Peizerat won silver.

    Grishuk & Platov were a very successful team created out of two moderately successful teams: Grishuk was 1988 world jr champ with Alexander Chickov, and Platov was ranked 6th in senior worlds with Larisa Fedorinova in 1989.
     
  19. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

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    This confuses me. 1994? When Rocky skated with Calla?
     
  20. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    Rocky and Calla broke up and he teamed with Kuchiki in 94. Rocky and Calla reteamed later on and skated as pros.
     
  21. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. I thought Rocky and Calla skated in Lillihamer. Did they break up after that?
    Sorry, I can't remember...
     
  22. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Rocky and Calla broke up after the 92-93 season. They repeated their National title in 93, but then had a really rough Worlds, and that was it for them temporarily. After failing to make the Olympic team with their new partners they got back together in the fall of 94 but never skated amateur again, instead had a lengthy enough pro career. I remember watching them compete in many pro events even though they were never headliners.

    Sorry I just noticed now someone else had already mentioned this last page.
     
  23. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    Last night I was watching some old programs of Petrova-Sikharulidze and Berezhnaya-Shliakov. P&T looked a lot like Gordeeva-Grinkov, but totally lacked chemistry. Ber-Shli (can't call them B&S since we are used to use it for Elena-Anton) were tehnically better overall, but Shliakov was totally lacking in posture and body lines, and he looked too big for Elena. Although they split for different reasons, I think neither would have become world or Olympic champion. Elena clearly did not like Shliakov, from her cold reaction to him in the K&C even after a great performance.

    We as fans are so blessed that Elena & Anton paired up together, and gave us masterpieces on the ice.
     
  24. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    I read somewhere than Shliakov was verbally abusive with Berezhnaya and not very safe with how he handled her on the ice (NOT saying he physically hurt her on purpose though), although that could be an exaggeration. I forget what book I read it it in.
     
  25. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    This was a big story during the 1998 Olympics and it is well known that Shliakov was abusive. He used to lock up Elena in the apartment they lived in. On the ice he used to drive her very hard. If she fell down on a throw, he would not offer his hand to her to get up. Other skaters helped her, including Anton and also Tamara, who saw this. Tamara said in an interview that she saw Shliakov hit Elena and Tamara questioned him why he treated her like that. After the accident Elena decided that she did not want to skate with him anymore; she wanted to skate with Anton.
     
  26. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    Omg, okay, I didn't know it was that extensive. That's really bad.
     
  27. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    There was a lot more to that story on all sides, and I hate to say it but I wouldn't doubt it if much of that abuse was on purpose, that man was diabolical.