When is the season which Zayak rule began to be applied to the competitions from?

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Akira Andrea, Mar 7, 2013.

  1. Akira Andrea

    Akira Andrea Well-Known Member

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    It is said that the Zayak rule was decided at 1982 ISU Congress, but, correctly, when is the season which it began to be applied to the competitions from?
    Who is the player who was penalized about it in the competitions for the first time?
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2013
  2. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure it was applied in the 1982-83 season, because Elaine's program that year was not full of multiple triple toes and salchows (she only skated it at US Nationals, had to withdraw from Worlds).

    As for the first skater ever penalized, I'm don't know.
     
  3. Akira Andrea

    Akira Andrea Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the quick reasonable reply.

    It is said that she attempted seven triple jumps (3T of 4 times, 3S of 2 times, 3L of 1 times) in 1981 Worlds, and attempted six triple jumps (3T of 4 times, 3S of 2 times) in 1982 Worlds, but, what kind of jumps did she attempt, if she was not full of multiple triple toes and salchows, in 1983 US Nationals?
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2013
  4. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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  5. Akira Andrea

    Akira Andrea Well-Known Member

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  6. Akira Andrea

    Akira Andrea Well-Known Member

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    Under the old judging system, what kind of penalty had been imposed to the player who conflicted to the Zayak rule?
     
  7. Tony Wheeler

    Tony Wheeler Well-Known Member

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    Michael Weiss completed 8 triple jumps at the 2000 National Championship, right? He tripled his first quad toe attempt and then did two more toe loops in combinations later in the program.

    Originally, I thought the judges were basically instructed to ignore the jump (ie the skater wouldn't earn technical marks any higher for the jump in violation), but this article says a 0.1 deduction was to be applied for the violation:

    http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/archive/results_nationals/senmen00.htm
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2013
  8. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Now though- wouldn't a quad toe plus two triple toes be in violation anyway? I thought that it meant any jump with 3 or more revolutions could only be repeated once, and in combination.
     
  9. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    I don't remember that one specifically. I remember both Urmanov and Kulik having programs with extra triple toes during the 1996 season. And Kulik did two triple flips with neither in combination at Worlds, which some observers thought is specifically what cost him the title.

    I see you found documentation quicker than I could.

    Yes, there was supposed to be a deduction. However, since we never knew what the judges' base marks were before they took the deduction, it was almost impossible to tell how whether it was taken (unless the technical mark was 6.0, which hardly ever happened) or whether it made any difference in that judge's ordinals.

    Quad toe and triple toe are two different jumps. So they could each be repeated, if in combination at least once each.
     
  10. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    If one of the jumps is in sequence rather than combination, is that a violation of the rule?
     
  11. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    no; a repeated jump has to be in combination OR in sequence

    but the definition of a sequence is more restrictive now than it was in 6.0 times
     
  12. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the clarification. For some reason I was thinking a toe is a toe.
     
  13. Akira Andrea

    Akira Andrea Well-Known Member

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    I think that it seems to have been less under old judging system than in the present under new judging system that the Zayak rule becomes problem, but, why will it be?
     
  14. Ladida

    Ladida Member

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    I was just wonder about Zayak rule and quad jumpes - if I remember correctly both Amodio and Brezina had two quad Salchows in their free skates in Zagreb, but there was no deduction. In the protocols one of the jumps where listed as a sequence but there were no sequences if my eyesight is still right. So how is this possible?
     
  15. skatak

    skatak Well-Known Member

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    when a solo jump is repeated, it is considered as SEQ, thus get a lower mark (80% IIRC)
     
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  16. Geh

    Geh Live in Guardian Angel

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    I think the first one to be affected was Sanda Dubravčic! She was doing a lot of triple toes in one program...

    http://youtu.be/x9rNQB1uTM4

    4 of them in Lake Placid! And she was going for a fifth one at the end!
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2013
  17. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    I guess it was changed again the next year, as I don't think she was able to count toe Wally's as a separate jump in 84.