What's next for Adam

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by foreverkwanfan, Apr 1, 2012.

  1. foreverkwanfan

    foreverkwanfan New Member

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    Adam who has some great artistry, musicality and spins just cannot seem to pull his jumps out cleanly and consistently. I think now it is time to ask if he will ever do it?
    Sounds harsh and yes he did pull it together some for nationals but what does not sit right is that he told Phil Hersh that he thought he skated his short ( at worlds) the best he has all year.
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ct-spt-0331-hersh-figure-skating--20120331,0,4064347.column

    ""The thing I can take away from this program is that I feel it's the best I've performed it all season," Rippon said."

    "Rippon actually thought he skated well. That isn't encouraging, given his stepouts on the landings of the triple axel and triple lutz jumps."

    It was not the best, his SP at Nationals was cleaner and right on beat with the music. Does he not see the mistakes?

    Also, if you are going to talk a jump, in this case the quad lutz, you better back it up by landing it and he couldn't do that, not even once. When he downgraded it to a quad salchow, he fell.

    Next season Johnny and Evan return, Jason Brown, if armed with a 3 axel, will be sublime. Ross Miner, Richard Dornbush, Keegan Messing all could improve and come back stonger.


    When a skater changes coaches and still cannot perform to their ability then it is time for the skater to stop looking outward and look inward. The coaches are not the problem. A skater could have the greatest coach to ever live, but that coach cannot go out and skate for their skater, the skater has to go out and do it themselves and ultimately be responsible for their skating.

    Adam is going to have a long plane ride home. I honestly think he has some hard choices to make before committing to next season.
  2. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    I'm willing to give Adam another year with Jason to see how it goes with tech improvement. It takes a while to maintain the new tech under pressure.

    Jeremy and Adam are both headed to the Harlem event- I'm sure they'll have a lot to chew over on the flight.
  3. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    If Adam says he did his best, why don't you believe him? What else can he do? It's a competition, not everyone can win, or even place where other people want them to.
  4. winterone

    winterone Banned Member

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    ITA with what you said. The point is why should we send him to represent the US if this is his best? He has an average track record internationally. I think we should let the up and coming Men get the experience.
  5. Arianne

    Arianne New Member

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    In an interview earlier this season, Jason mentioned that the triple axel could not be fixed in one season. It will take more time. Plus, I thought Rippon's axel was much improved this season. He landed it more frequently and handled it very well at nationals.
  6. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    A shampoo commercial?
  7. ProgramerUSFS

    ProgramerUSFS New Member

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    I have in the past been critical of some of Adams statements because I disagreed with them, and had first hand knowledge to know that what he was saying was not correct. However, in this case. He improved greatly this year. His jumps were beter and his attitude toward attacking his program improved. He still telegraphs the 3A, but over all he has done a good job this year. His improvement landed him a trip to worlds which was after all, his first time to the big show in the big house. And let me point out, that Chan's first trip to worlds landed him 9th and less of a score then Adam just got. Point is, it was a learning experience. Also, I said it in another thread, that I think Yuka and Jason's students appeared very distracted to me, at this worlds compared to other events in the past. My two cents. And good luck next season Adam, you improve as you have this year, and its going to be something!
  8. museksk8r

    museksk8r Well-Known Member

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    This was not Adam's first senior Worlds; he was also there in 2010 when he and Abbott earned 3 spots for the US combining their 5th (Jeremy) and 6th (Adam) place finishes. So, Rippon already bested Chan's first World trip in terms of placement.
  9. ProgramerUSFS

    ProgramerUSFS New Member

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    You are correct. I thought this was his first trip. I stand correct. Thanks.
  10. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    A haircut? So he doesn't look like Harpo Marx.:lol:
  11. Jemestone

    Jemestone New Member

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    Toning down on the bronzer? :eek:
  12. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    He needs to develop more power. Without more power he isn't going to get the PCS and 3axels (and quads).

    His current 3axel set up hurts my soul.
  13. Leeedward

    Leeedward New Member

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    Adam has the experience!!! (Two World Junior Championships!) However, a male skater who expects to succeed internationally at the senior level must have the Big-Two jumps: a dead-on triple axel and a confident quad. Adam has every other skill, but lacking either of those must-have jumps on a consistent basis will get him no further.
  14. magnolia

    magnolia New Member

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  15. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Because he finished second at Nationals.

    Although the USFSA says that it uses other criteria besides placement at Nationals and has shown a very limited willingness to do so in certain circumstances, there is no reason to think it would ignore a ten-point gap in the final score and send a bronze medalist who doesn't have a quad and wouldn't have been a podium threat.

    If Evan Lysacek had competed, landed a quad or two, and finished 0.19 points behind Rippon, the Federation might have seen things differently.
  16. lily

    lily Member

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    Wasn't Adam better with Orser?
  17. foreverkwanfan

    foreverkwanfan New Member

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    I know what you mean, I always yell at the screen "Just do it already!"

    As Scott Hamilton says, he stalks the 3 axel. He needs to put a lot more power into it and just attack the hell out of it.
  18. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    It's worse than Lavrenchuk's 3loop.
  19. Sulphur

    Sulphur New Member

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    Agree with both. I think Orser helped him to get more speed on his skating.

    Still, I believe he can do so much more. He's not too old for a male skater and has plenty of potential.
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2012
  20. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

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    Already some time ago I got the impression that Rippon might not be a very coachable person. I think that if one pays for a really good coach, one should listen to the advise of that coach and do exactly what he/she says. If that does not give good success at competitions, maybe some other career would be more suitable? On the other hand everyone cannot be the winner, and if one is happy for "just skating one´s best", and that brings one the possibility to compete at Worlds, maybe the current level is not very high in one´s country?

    About Rippon´s hair, to me it looks like the behind of a lamb, which has managed to miss the shearing season.
  21. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    He needs the off ice training Orser wanted him to do, but Adam, I understand, balked at.
  22. Rob

    Rob Beach Bum

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    Never thought i'd be keeping my fingers crossed for that, but I am!
  23. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    It started out that way, but by the end of their partnership, no, he was skating worse than he was this season. Anyways, the issue with Adam is simply his jumps, his results and scores this season show that his score ceiling without a solid 3a or quad is around 220 points. That's not terrible, but it's not going to make him competitive with the best. Everything else in Adam's skating is just fine, good even, but his scores and even PCS won't improve until he gets the jump down. He needs to find a way to get either the 3a or the 4s (ideally both) pretty rock solid if he wants to do better, currently he's just giving too many points away by falling and way underrotating his 4s and having issues with the landings of his 3a, which is not of good quality to begin with (even when cleanly landed, the GOE should be 0 to -1 IMO). If he can fix these things, he will do well, but if he can't, he's not going anywhere and is unlikely to make another World team.
  24. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    I bet you anything Adam gets a new coach this summer. That's just the way he handles setbacks...

    And, FWIW, he is nowhere close to landing a quad. It's silly that Jason even let him put in the program this year.
  25. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    Really??? Isn't off-ice training standard for skaters?
  26. fan

    fan Active Member

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    i think he needs to put on more muscle. i've seen him numerous times in person, before/after training. he is extremely thin, much more so than others (abbott/buttle are thin too, but adam looks painful). perhaps more off ice weight lifting/small amounts of muscle gaining will help him get the explosiveness he needs for the 3axel/quad.
  27. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    I always get slammed for bringing this up, but Jeremy, Adam, and Alissa all look physically fragile to me. I know fat doesn't fly, but skating a 4 minute + program requires strength and endurance, it's not ballet or gymnastics. Maybe if they worked on their off-ice fitness they would do better? The nerves and adrenaline that go with competition can really sap your energy. Also program run throughs throughout the season take a toll on your muscles, especially when you are doing the same program over and over.

    I know Meryl and Evan are extremely thin, but whatever diet/fitness regimen they have seems to work for them.

    Of course, Evan and Meryl also seem to be internally motivated, while Adam and Alissa always seem to be looking to their coach for reinforcement. Not much you can do about that.
  28. Rock2

    Rock2 New Member

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    I hear lots of comments about speed and power and off ice regimen. I, too, have heard that Adam has some sort of training commitment issues.
    It's tough to find the right amount of size/weight to ensure you have the right combo of power, strength and that sinewy body that turns so well in the air.

    Training problems aside I don't think he has the best body for skating. Thinner on top, yes, but lots of junk in the trunk, as it were. His stroking and jumping looks labored. Just seems he needs improvements in diet and/or fitness and/or body shaping to optimize his performance. But without knowing what he has done in the past, hard to know what specifically he needs.

    Skating is in this strange little place right now where few are dominating and at both the national and international level you can mix and match 6-12 entries in your picks for the podium. We could see Adam as the national champ next year just as easily as he could be 9th. So he, like many, will need a good off-season plan.
  29. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

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    I see a really weird dependancy issue with the Detroit based skaters and their coaches as well. Its like Jason reaffirms his validity as a coach by his relationship with his skaters. weird.
  30. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Is this based on the percentage that Rippon lands the quad in practice?
  31. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

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    Because gymnastics and (especially) ballet don't require strength and endurance (you do know that ballets are a lot longer than 4 minutes, right?) :rolleyes:
  32. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    My point was that skating a long program requires a different type of strength and endurance. My understanding is that ballet and gymnastics are not aerobic activities, while skating is both aerobic and anerobic. Anerobic activities require a different diet and use different muscles.

    Ballet dancers and gymnasts try to avoid bulk at all costs, do they not? Skaters can't always afford to avoid a certain amount of bulky muscle. It takes calories to stroke around a 200 foot rink for 4 minutes at top speed. Maybe in the old days skaters could stop and pose or have a prolonged slow section, but not any more.
  33. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

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    Gymnasts who do AA probably try to limit their muscle bulk in order not to make certain events/skills more dificult. OTOH, if you're purely a vault specialist who really cares if your quads are huge? Better explosive power is a plus. I can think of plenty of gymnasts who are powerful and look muscular. Girls pair skaters are closest to a gymnast's body in skating, really.

    ETA: Are you talking about rhythmic gymnastics instead of artistic?
  34. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Not the men. Male gymnasts are usually solid bulk upper and lower body. If you look at a top male gymnasts arms- they are the definition of bulk in most cases.

    Male ballet dancers usually have incredible quads and calves- and upper body like pairs men - STRONG- I recently read a cycling blog about a man who went to see a ballet with his wife, his though was "wow- he's going to need to lose some of that upper body bulk if he ever wants to be a good climber" So clearly, ballet dancers have more upper body strength than cyclists (and similar legs).

    I've never thought Adam look fragile. There was a video of him in shorts at nationals, and his legs are solid muscle.
  35. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Most gymnasts are not that thin honestly. Short and with minimal body fat to be sure, but most elite gymnasts, male and female, appear much stronger and more muscular than the average elite figure skaters. Nastia Liukin was unusually thin for a gymnast, and next to Mao Asada, Pang Tong, Vera Bazarova, etc. I'm sure she'd look much sturdier/stronger. Skaters who have a build more similar to that of an elite gymnast that I can think of off the top of my head would be Joannie Rochette, Ashley Wagner, Amelie Lacoste, Megan Duhamel, Marybeth Marley, and Gracie Gold for the women (Agnes Zawadzki too, although she'd be way taller for a gymnast than she even is for skating) and Keegan Messing, Patrick Chan, Brian Joubert, Kevin Van Der Perren, Rockne Brubaker, and Richard Dornbush for the men. I disagree that a female gymnast would be built most similarly to a pairs skater, the male pairs skaters are maybe built like male gymnasts but taller for the most part, but most pairs girls are so frail looking.
  36. Leeedward

    Leeedward New Member

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    With all of the "What's going with Alissa?", one questions what's going on with the coaching? This coaching stable has gone from getting early, spectacular results from both Alissa & Jeremy to the devastating results these two experienced at this recent World's. Add Adam to the mix & one really wonders what is happening?

    P.S. Perhaps they inspire and tweak effectively, but their long-term coaching techniques are not yet fully developed. Even so, they are a young, outstanding coaching team that I hope continues to develop & produce outstanding skaters.
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2012
  37. Roxanne

    Roxanne New Member

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    Last year they mainly concentrated on Jeremy and Alissa but now they have so many new students. Maybe that messed things up.
  38. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Jeremy...when watching 2010 nationals live, it actually struck me, when compared to Evan and Johnny, how relatively more "bulky" he is--at least he is bulkier waist down. Slightly bigger hip and legs than average.
    Not that he's not skinny, but he's not super super skinny for a male skater.
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2012
  39. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    I'm curious. Have you ever seen an elite female gymnast?

    Here's a photo of the 2008 United States women's gymnastic team: http://0.tqn.com/d/gymnastics/1/0/t/4/-/-/USTeam08OlyHarryHowGETTY82281166.jpg. It speaks for itself.

    For that matter, did you ever see Midori Ito, Tonya Harding, and Surya Bonaly in their prima? Have you ever seen Maé Bérénice Méité?

    Alissa Czisny has a different body type from those skaters, but she doesn't look physically fragile to me. (She looks more :grope: if you ask me.) I think you may be confusing her facial expressions with her physique. :shuffle:
  40. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/sports_globetrotting/kim-yuna/