What would Olympic podiums from 92-2014 been if everyone skated cleanly

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by kwanoverrated, Aug 27, 2013.

  1. kwanoverrated

    kwanoverrated Active Member

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    I guess it is possible but I am not sure he would have if everyone else also skated cleanly. The judges would probably favor a clean Plushenko, clean Lambiel, clean Buttle, and maybe even a clean Joubert over him. Those skaters had the reputation and Sandhu after years of inconsistency did not. With how Turin was skated he could have easily won the silver skating cleanly though.
     
  2. kwanoverrated

    kwanoverrated Active Member

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    If Slutskaya did all she had planned at the SLC Olympics she would win clean for sure, but a clean Kwan would not have lost silver to Cohen even with an easier triple-triple or no triple-triple. Cohen was already the better skater but Kwan had the reputation, just as Slutskaya did, so the judges would have favored the veteran star skater like always. I am not even sure a clean Cohen could beat a clean Hughes in SLC with how Hughes skated that night.
     
  3. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Cohen a better skater than Kwan in 2002? I guess you really dislike Kwan, as evidenced by your username.
     
  4. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    :confused: Cohen was not in Kwan's league in 2002. She skated small, slowly and wobbly. I would go so far as to say that she wasn't even in the top 3 in her own country in 2002 if all skated cleanly but headcase Nikodinov was never going to put it together so Cohen was the logical one to get the extra push at nationals. I would have loved to have seen the Delta Center blow up if a clean Cohen was put ahead of a clean Kwan in SLC. Never was going to happen. Ever.
     
  5. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    :rolleyes:
     
  6. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    Despite terrible judging at the 2014 Olympics, I don't think the podium would have been the same had Mao skated cleanly. I think she might have been able to knock Carolina off the podium and would have possibly even pushed Yuna to 3rd. No way were the judges going to give her the gold over Sotnikova. It's even plausible that Sotnikova and Lipnitskaia would have went 1-2.
     
  7. kwanoverrated

    kwanoverrated Active Member

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    Better spins, better spirals (despite that being the best part of Kwan's skating arguably), IMO even better artistry, and more or less the same jumps, and more interesting programs than post Nichol version Kwan. IMO the better skater at that point. I dont really care whether others agree with me or not. I already acknowledged the judges wouldnt have. I know Kwan fans think she farts rainbows and is the bestest, greatest, specialest thing ever in the sport in every single way, and anyone who says otherwise is a big stupid doodoohead.

    If Dick Button can state he strongly felt Cohen was already a better skater than Slutskaya in 2002 (which almost nobody agreed with at the time) then I can also take the minority stance and state I feel Cohen was a better skater than Kwan.
     
  8. gk_891

    gk_891 Active Member

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    Better spins yes. But the spiral part is very debatable. Cohen had stunning flexibility and extension but her edge control and the pattern she made on the ice wasn't nearly as impressive.
     
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  9. kwanoverrated

    kwanoverrated Active Member

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    I watched Mrs. Sasha live at Skate Canada in fall 2003 and was quite impressed. Her edge quality while not the best in the world, was much better than her critics seemed to imply, and her spirals not only had stunning positions that no others could ever match but seemed to have good flow, pattern, and control.
     
  10. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    to me the sp results said different. All Kwan had to do was stand up in the LP to win. irina even clean was going to lose to a cleanish Kwan like she did in the sp. Hughes was slated for bronze, that's why she was so outrageously held up in the sp.
     
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  11. kwanoverrated

    kwanoverrated Active Member

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    Despite my name, I consider Irina just as much, or even more overrated than Kwan (atleast by the judges, by the general public, reporters, the Dick Button type fanatics, her crazy fan base, etc..Kwan takes it easily). She won that seasons grand prix final with only 3 clean triples when Kwan and Hughes had 6 and 7. The judges were clearly in her corner. Add to that she was capable of a triple lutz-triple loop and triple salchow-triple loop and there is no way she was going to lose if she did jumps like that. Remember how overmarked she was for her very weak LP, and still had some 5.9s on both sets, and lost the gold by only .1 on a tiebreak of one judge. Who knows about the SP, it might have been a camaflouge of sorts, but Michelle beat a clean Tara 8 judges to 1 in the short in 98, and then skated cleanly and lost the LP to Tara anyway, so I dont read much into the SP results.
     
  12. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    ignore-posted in error. :eek:
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2014
  13. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    You sound a little bitter about the past. I guess those were some tough times. I admit that I'm a little overzealous about Kwan now, but I was probably one of the doodooheads back in the day (also, I was a teenager back in her heyday). It's like an Election race and being a supporter means pulling out all the stops.
     
  14. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    Pairs

    1992

    Gold- Mishkutenok/Dmitriev
    Silver- Brasseur/Eisler
    Bronze- Kovarikova/Novotny

    1994

    Gold- Gordeeva/Grinkov
    Silver- Mishkutenok/Dmitriev
    Bronze- Brasseur/Eisler

    1998

    Gold- Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze
    Silver- Kazakova/Dmitriev
    Bronze- Wötzel/Steuer

    2002

    Gold- Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze
    Silver- Sale/Pelletier
    Bronze- Shen/Zhao

    2006

    Gold- Totmianina/Marinin
    Silver- Shen/Zhao
    Bronze- Zhangs

    2010

    Gold- Savchenko/Szolkowy
    Silver- Shen/Zhao
    Bronze- Kavaguti/Smirnov

    2014

    Gold- Volosozhar/Trankov
    Silver- Savchenko/Szolkowy
    Bronze- Stolbova/Klimov


    Men

    1992

    Gold- Petrenko
    Silver- Browning
    Bronze- Barna

    1994

    Gold- Petrenko
    Silver- Browning
    Bronze- Urmanov

    1998

    Gold- Stojko
    Silver- Kulik
    Bronze- Eldredge

    2002

    Gold- Yagudin
    Silver- Plushenko
    Bronze- Abt

    2006

    Gold- Plushenko
    Silver- Lambiel
    Bronze- Buttle

    2010

    Gold- Lambiel
    Silver- Takahashi
    Bronze- Abbott

    2014

    Gold- Chan
    Silver- Hanyu
    Bronze- Ten


    Dance

    1992

    Gold- Klimova/Ponomarenko
    Silver- Duchesnays
    Bronze- Usova/Zhulin

    1994

    Gold- Grishuk/Platov
    Silver- Usova/Zhulin
    Bronze- Torvill/Dean

    1998

    Gold- Grishuk/Platov
    Silver- Krylova/Ovsyannikov
    Bronze- Anissina/Peizerat

    2002

    Gold- Anissina/Peizerat
    Silver- Lobacheva/Averbukh
    Bronze- Fusar-Poli/Margaglio

    2006

    Gold- Navka/Kostomarov
    Silver- Belbin/Agosto
    Bronze- Delobel/Schoenfelder

    2010

    Gold- Virtue/Moir
    Silver- Davis/White
    Bronze- Domnina/Shabalin

    2014

    Gold- Davis/White
    Silver- Virtue/Moir
    Bronze- Ilinykh/Katsalapov


    Ladies

    1992

    Gold- Ito
    Silver- Yamaguchi
    Bronze- Harding

    1994

    Gold- Baiul
    Silver- Chen
    Bronze- Sato

    1998

    Gold- Lipinski
    Silver- Kwan
    Bronze- Butyrskaya

    2002

    Gold- Kwan
    Silver- Slutskaya
    Bronze- Cohen

    2006

    Gold- Arakawa
    Silver- Cohen
    Bronze- Slutskaya

    2010

    Gold- Kim
    Silver- Asada
    Bronze- Rochette

    2014

    Gold- Asada
    Silver- Lipnitskaya
    Bronze- Sotnikova
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2014
  15. kwanoverrated

    kwanoverrated Active Member

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    I would only be bitter if Kwan was winning titles over a skater I liked, but truth be told I couldnt stand any of the top skaters of the Kwan era. 1996-2006 was by far the most lackluster era of ladies skating ever. If it wasnt Kwan winning those titles it would have been Slutskaya who I like even less than Kwan (although her fan base isnt half as annoying, but her skating is even moreso, and personality and poor sportsmanship much moreso). Despite that I recognize her abilities, Cohen was the most annoying and overhyped skater with a horrible attitude and who treated her coaches, fellow skaters, and everyone in skating like shit, and I am glad she didnt win any big event and thankful to Kwan, Slutskaya, and anyone else who helped prevent that happening with help of her constant choking and splatting. Hughes and Lipinski winning Olympics, and skaters like Butyrskaya and Malinina winning world events, yeah I am glad that era is over. The only skaters I liked of that era were ones who had no hope of big titles anyway even without Kwan- Jennifer Robinson, Angela Nikodinov, Bebe Liang, Tanja Szewcenko, Vanessa Gusmeroli, so Kwan didnt really impact their careers in anyway either.

    So bitter no. All my all time favorites- Witt, Kim, Asada, Yamaguchi, Hamill, have all had careers that are probably more impressive than Kwan's. Of that era of nothing, I dont mind she ended up keeping the world from horrors such as Slutskaya being a 7 time world champion, Hughes or Lipinski being a 2 or 3 time Olympic Champion, or god knows what else would have happened in that painfully weak time if Kwan wasnt around.
     
  16. Meoima

    Meoima Well-Known Member

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    :mad: sad but true, if ALL of them skated cleanly, Adelina and Yulia would have been 1-2 on the podium.
    Mao, Yuna and Caro would have to fight for the bronze. :(
     
  17. kwanoverrated

    kwanoverrated Active Member

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    yet you are confused why Sotnikova is considered by people to be an overscored skater. :lol:
     
  18. Meoima

    Meoima Well-Known Member

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    She was overscored but not the most overscored skater ever since she only just started her senior career. Who knows what will happen next season, who knows if Russian fed will dump her? They have dozen of genius girls now. Next season what if Radionova will become the new princess, and Tat will likely to do the politiking for her.
    I can get it why Adelina is going for the 4T or at least the 3A, because if not, her position in the Russian team will be very fragile. Yulia is also vunerable too. Russian fed will not hesitate to dump these girls if they do not perform as well as this season.
     
  19. kwanoverrated

    kwanoverrated Active Member

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    I hope both Adelina and Julia are dumped. Neither are worthy the scores they get and make Russia look like a joke. Sotnikova especialy just needs to be retired already. Radianova and Anna who are better skaters and earn the scores they are getting make Russia look better to the general public. Plus some of the impressive young juniors they have coming up behind those.
     
  20. Enero

    Enero Member

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    I agree with your picks, except for the Men's 2002 event. I think if Plushenko had skated clean he would've beat Yaugudin. He still would've lost the short, but beat him in the long.

    These predictions are always fun to see. However, I do wonder how things would've changed had those who originally won the gold didn't, such as Yamaguchi, Lysachek, Urmanov etc. Would they have continued on for another 4 years and if so how would that have changed the dynamics of the podium at the next Olympics.
     
  21. grassroots39

    grassroots39 Member

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    Chan would not win over a clean Hanyu in 2014. Hanyu's planned base value in the LP is 8 points higher, and Chan would never make up 8 points in PCS on Hanyu since the judges are giving them almost the same PCS these days. Meanwhile he would make up nothing on GOE on a totally clean Hanyu, and would probably even lose more points there. As for the short program Chan would have lost that even with a clean triple axel, so no points gained there either.

    The judges wouldnt dare put a clean Yu Na Kim off the podium under any circumstances, so atleast one of Sotnikova, Lipnitskaya, or Asada would have been off.

    A totally clean Slutskaya was also never winning only bronze in 2006. She came in as the heavy favorite so would have been given silver at the very least in that case.

    Abt winning bronze in an all clean mens competition in 2002? Ridiculous. He would be lucky to even make the top 6.
     
  22. Fiero425

    Fiero425 Member

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    I agree about Plushy! He had Yagudin's number by then, even if he was more artistic, Evgeni's effortless jumps always seemed to put him on top; esp. in the SP! If not for Plushenko, I don't think Alexei would have broken down so soon! He was being pushed to put more technical content in his programs due to Evgeni's 2 quads!
     
  23. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    Regarding the bolded part... For what reason? There is nothing that indicates this to us. It's pretty much the same as saying before the Olympics that the judges wouldn't have dared to not give her the gold medal in Sochi had she been clean.
     
  24. Meoima

    Meoima Well-Known Member

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    Frankly, if all of them skate clean, I think the judge would put Yuna off the podium. Because you know, with such judging, there would be no way they would put Adelina and Yulia off the podium if both of them were clean. And if Mao were clean in both her SP and LP, it's hard to put her off the podium because of her BV being highest.
    I am afraid they would be willing to scarify Yuna, though.
     
  25. alchemy void

    alchemy void Well-Known Member

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    Well, considering this is a banal, off-season hypothetical scenario, you have nothing to be afraid about!
     
  26. hirtmoles31

    hirtmoles31 Active Member

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    2002- pairs would be the same minus any controversy if B&S had been clean rather than error proned. men would see someone else win the bronze besides Goebel, probably Honda if all did their best. ladies would see Slutskaya winning gold. After that not sure. If Kwan does the triple toe-triple toe she wins the silver for sure. If she doesnt and Cohen does the triple lutz-triple toe Cohen gets silver. If Cohen doesnt do the triple lutz-triple toe she doesnt even beat Hughes for bronze though.

    2006- Slutskaya or Arakawa gold. Cant really say which. Cohen bronze. If Asada skates then she would win bronze with all clean. I am assuming triple-triples from Irina and Shiz otherwise gold Asada. men would end up the same if all were clean. pairs same too. Zhangs had become new Chinese #1 in S&Z absence so would be given nod over them for silver even if both were clean, especialy if they did the throw quad they had planned.

    2010- pairs would end up same if all clean. Men would see Abbott gold, Lambiel silver, and Takahashi bronze if all clean. Ladies would end up same if all clean.

    2014- ladies would see Julia win bronze over Asada and Kostner if all clean. Men would see Hanyu still winning over Chan if both clean, and probably by more points, and bronze would be Fernandez while Ten wouldnt even be top 8. pairs would be same if all clean.
     
  27. irinayunafanatc

    irinayunafanatc Member

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    Pong & Tong and Stolbova & Klimov would never have chance to beat the German pair skating cleanly. Would never happen ever.
     
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  28. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    I am literally dead at the hypothetical that Cohen would ever do a clean quad in Olympic competition
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2014
  29. scottieschamp

    scottieschamp Member

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    Did she try the quad salchow in her Olympic LP. If she did that is what a clean skate by her would include, whether it was realistic for her to land it or not. I do know she tried it a couple times that year, but dont remember if the Olympics was one of those times. I mostly wiped the whole SLC ladies event out of my mind.
     
  30. ohashibiles

    ohashibiles Active Member

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    Slutskaya would have won the 2002 and 2006 Olympics skating cleanly for sure, even if Kwan and Arakawa also skated their best. I am not saying that since I think she is the best which I dont. Judges loved her and overrated her ugly skating. Since the other Russian girls of her era- Butyrskaya, Volchova, Sokolova, were always underscored, the powerful Russian fed. probably also sold them all out to buy marks for her, which was a waste it turned out as she always choked in big events to lose the gold anyway.

    Had Slutskaya stayed more consistent in the year and half leading up to Nagano, she also would have prohibited Tara's rise from ever happening.