Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by olympic, Aug 16, 2014.
I hope Mirai proves all the haters wrong.
Umm go through what? You replied to me first. Not the other way around.
Well since you want to bring up race, yes I do believe race was a factor. This is Murica we're talkin about.
How was she never part of the Olympic team? She placed 3rd in the SP and FS thus earning a spot. Unlike Ashley who placed 4th and 5th respectfully. I can't tell if you're trying to be a smartass, sarcastic or both.
Making the podium does not automatically mean making the Olympic Team. A committee gets to determine the team members based on results from a list of competitions.
The US Olympic Team for Sochi was announced to be Gold, Edmunds and Wagner. It never changed. It was never announced as Gold, Edmunds and Nagasu and changed later to what it actually was. In that sense Nagasu was never kicked off from the team - because she was never actually part of it.
In any events, there were discussions subsequently to the naming of the team that, if there was a spot that the USFS was most hesitant to name, it was Edmunds'.
Oh so the actual placements don't do it for everyone. It's up to the committee, and whoever they like to decide placements. Why didn't they say that on their website? How come we didn't see "Committee gets to determine the team members based on results from a list of competitions" on their advertisements before the event took place?
And we wonder why this sport is on its deathbed.
While I would have preferred to see Mirai go, it is true the nation's feds get to decide who goes and who doesn't. It has always been like this. Look at Japan's Nationals. The men had such a competitive, talented field this quad they made it clear that only the gold medalist (which ended up being Yuzu) would be assured a position on the Olympic team. Nationals does not = an Olympic spot. That's unfortunately how it goes.
Uhh... The selection criteria were published by U.S. Figure Skating in September 2012, a full 16 months before the 2014 U.S. Championships took place.
See here: http://www.usfsa.org/content/14 OWG FSK ATH - September 19, 2012 executed f.pdf
Thanks Jenna. Plus, that has been the arrangement all along. In 1992, they sent Wylie to the Olympics and then Mitchell to Worlds. In 2006, they named Kwan to the team when she didn't even skate at Nationals that season. On a more commercial perspective, they outright refused to let Nationals results dictate the Olympic team because that would make Nationals become the Olympic Trials and that means the IOC gets involved in TV rights / $$$.
And that arrangement is true even for Worlds. IIRC, only the Champion is guaranteed a spot to the World Team. I can't think of a good example off the top of my head. There's Meissner instead of Hacker for 2008 Worlds, but some said Hacker was in fact offered to go to Worlds but she turned it down.
I wish that rumor would die already. Hacker said herself in print that she wasn't offered worlds in 2008. And I don't mean to diss you entirely Marco. I'm just tired of that rumor in general.
Thanks for clarifying. It's too long ago and I couldn't be bothered to look it up, especially since people have said different things over the years. That's why I used a tentative tone.
But yes - that's another example of Nationals results not (fully) dictating World / Olympic team members.
fully rotate her jumps
It's very difficult for her. But she is still 21, not too late though. She should totally focus on the next 2 season.
It seems some of you don't think the 3sal is necessary. Do you think Mirai can beat someone like Ashley without 7 triples or a 3-3 in the LP? Just an earnest question.
At this point no, unless Wagner bombs. Wagner has too much reputation, confidence, momentum, and USFSA trust built up over Nagasu, and at this point mostly superior skating too. She would need to do something more content wise than Wagner, not less than her, if Wagner skates even decently.
Above all, she needs to become consistent and stop underrotating her triples (and skate with more life). That's how she can break into the pack and gain some credibility in the eyes of the international and national judges. It's as simple as that.
Absolutely. She needs to peform much more, whether she lands the jumps or not, and skate with so much more energy and zest than she has in a long time. Her Nationals skating was great, but she didn't sell the program hardly any, and her relatively low PCS were deserved.
I don't understand why people keep on bringing the issue of the 3 salchow. Sure, it would be nice if Mirai could put it back into her programs and compete a 7 triple LP, but the difference between a 2 axel (which Mirai would switch out to insert the sal) and a triple sal is just shy of a point. A point has mattered in a few instances, but it rarely does. Also, Mirai has the benefit of her spin GOEs.
Definitely consistency all year long, fix her technical issues and get in form. It's up to her to prove to the USFSA that she deserves a spot on the team. I like Mirai and I felt bad for her but I understand the USFSA's decision. Two good performances at one competition doesn't really do much if someone has been inconsistent the rest of the time.
Sending Wagner to Sochi was definitely the right decision and anyone who says otherwise is an idiot. She had been by far the best U.S performer internationally for 2.5 years at that point. As for if they should have send Mirai IMO had she finished 2nd they would have sent her, but since Polina finished 2nd they sent her. The 3rd place finisher was always going to be the one bumped, and IMO that was fair. Well maybe had Gold been 3rd they would have bumped the 2nd place finisher, although in that case Gold would have deserved to be bumped IMO. So Mirai had to skate a bit better and take 2nd to deserve to be on the team.
As others have said, Mirai needs to be much more disciplined in not letting the performance go if she's not feeling 100 percent or if things aren't going her way. She has a big tendency to really get lazy and sloppy with her posture, arms, and overall presentation. I hate the way her arms are just so droopy in some of her performances. She needs someone to teach her how to give a performance even when times are tough and why the details in posture and movement matter.
She needs to skate like she wants it more, and to improve greatly technically as well. To be honest there is very little she doesn't need to improve at this point. Even her spins and spirals aren't standout anymore.
What's past is past, and it is not being a "hater" to point out that Mirai has been far more inconsistent than consistent in the years between Vancouver and Sochi. It has been well-stated - she cannot expect to come in and put out a couple of good performances after multiple seasons of mediocre to poor performances and necessarily be rewarded with a big prize such as the Olympics when other skaters have been more consistent. Mirai needs to work consistently, skate consistently without under-rotations, and perform at a consistent level. I believe if she does that, the judges will reward her. But she needs to prove that she's in it for the long haul, not just get herself in shape for one competition. I adore Mirai's skating when she is on far more than any other current US lady, I really hope she shines this year. But she has to prove that she can be a strong and consistent skater and competitor.
I don't really think there is a triumvirate
I do think that Gracie is well.....Gracie....America's darling. Polina is a powerhouse and full of potential as she comes into her own.
Ashley had two (?) great seasons, and then problems last year. She had a program that absolutely did not work for her, and kudos to her for putting her blade down, and changing programs. She can win, if she cleans up a few things.
Mirai, on the other hand, talented, gifted, but sloppy
It was all there for her to skate right into. Unfortunately, I think she has squandered whatever good will or "allowances" the judges had for her. I don't think she can climb back up from where she is. It is unfortunate, because I suspect she is the most naturally talented of the four mentioned. Now, could she reach the top.....sure....with a little help. Will she? I think she has demonstrated a lack of conviction, commitment and hard work...at least at the level she needs to be to skate at the top. And, she needs another choreographer (IMHO)
Even when she is really on, or skates her best, her skating is a shadow of her best skates in 2010, or even 2008 or 2011. I don't think she is good enough anymore to be honest. She also was near the top in the U.S in a rather weak time for U.S women when they were always stuck on 2 spots. Now competition is a lot tougher with Gold, a much improved Ashley, and now Edmunds.
A time machine
...a FSU pen.
Oh, and consistency.
But Nagasu beat Wagner at 2014 nationals anyways? She just wasn't put on the Olympic team. Wagner can definitely bomb. We have seen evidence of this at the last nationals. All of this happened with Mirai not even at her absolute best. If she gets some fire, better coaching and support then there's no reason why she won't bump Ashley again, who is older and has never had a solid 3/3. If you take away the time violation, Mirai was less than 2 points behind 2nd place/Polina.
Ashley's programs weren't clean at the Olympics. She was two-footing and underrotating all over the place. Unless you consider that clean.
Sure but I don't think Mirai just wants to hope for Wagner (or Gold) to bomb to make a big team. Sure it can conceivably happen, but that isnt the scenario she wants to rely on. She wants to have a bit more control than that anyway. And for that I believe she does need 7 triples and probably a triple-triple. Those others just all have more going for them now otherwise.