What must Gracie Gold do to catch / compete with / beat Sotnikova, Lipnitskaya, et al

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by olympic, Feb 23, 2014.

  1. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Messages:
    6,972
    The games are over. Time for assessment of the new stars and possible future rivalries (Sorry, my brain is always fast-forwarding :p ).

    With the retirements of Mao, Yu Na, Akiko, most likely Carolina, Valentina and maybe even Kanako, I think the next cycle for Ladies is shaping up to possibly be a battle between Russia v. U.S., much like the tail end of the 1990s - the early part of the new millennium. Perhaps Osmond and Li ('15 Worlds are in Shanghai) will pop up to spoil the hegemony.

    It looks like Gracie at the moment would be the chief foil to any Russian dominance.

    What does she need to do to supplant them?

    1. Would backloading her programs more help at all? Adelina does a monster 2x-3t in the 2nd half of the LP and it seems to impress the judges. She currently does 4 triples in the first half in 3 different jumping passes and repeats the 3toe and 3lutz
    2. Go to the next level and train a 3x? IIRC, she was doing 3x's w/ Ouriashev in a harness. It would be a point-getter but is it too risky? A rumor swirled that Adelina might start training a 4toe!
    3. Use the 3loop as a back end to jump combos? It is a jump that has improved markedly for her. 3loop would be improve her base value by supplanting the 3toe.
    4. Concentrate on trying to get a true flip?
    5. How about PCS, especially Choreography and Interpretation? I actually like her skating skills more than either of the Russians, but she appears to skate w/ less passion than either of them (when they are on). I think she does OK, especially under FC, but she needs a certain je ne sais quoi to be as noticeable as the uber-bendy Lipnitskaya, Russia's Sasha Cohen.

    Her and FC's partnership seems great, solid! But I hope she gets back a little of that wild explosiveness. He seems to have reined her in. Or would that be too risky? It certainly grabs attention!
     
  2. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,891
    Before worlds in Boston, the USA needs to break up into several different countries with each having a former usfs judge on the panel.
     
  3. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Messages:
    6,972
    LOL. I see you recycled Christine Brennan's joke.
     
  4. tarotx

    tarotx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    1,528
    Gracie has and will benefit for being the US #1 but since she has a peaceful skating personality and doesn't have uber flexibility She needs to learn to always be clean. If she can get a consistency rep, it will help her in tech and PCS. But the two Russian's won't be having that Russian crowd's uber excited for them and muted response to everybody else. So things will be much closer soon.
     
  5. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Messages:
    6,972
    Perhaps. Adelina and Julia's marks will come back down to earth at least a little outside of Russia. I don't know by how much, though
     
  6. elif

    elif Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2010
    Messages:
    367
    Gold's technical score in olympics very good actually. 69 with a fall. Kim with her perfect jumps got 69 as well. If two weeks ago I say ''Gracie going to get same TES with Kim Yuna, even with a fall'' everyone could laugh at me, including myself.:p Looks like judges loving her jumps/spins so there is no worry. She should concentrate her programs. Especially her free.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2014
  7. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,891
    No! Did she beat me to it? Damn! Well, I guess it's not exactly a genius observation :p
     
  8. ltnskater

    ltnskater Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Messages:
    603
    Get Russian citizenship!

    In all seriousness, continue developing artistically, but more importantly, skate clean consistent programs! She didn't have the best grand prix season but look what happened by the time the Olympics came around, after skating clean in the team event, they gave her a rep boost in the individual! She's much closer to the Russians than the scores here in Sochi indicate, I'm predicting we'll see scores simmering back down to roughly 135 - 140 for clean programs from the top skaters in the next quadrennial until 2018, where of course, the scores will climb exponentially during the Olympics in South Korea (except this time, there may be a mandatory Russian skater deduction rather than a bonus)!
     
  9. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,891
    She reminds me more of Caro Kostner.
     
  10. screech

    screech Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,879
    Just my opinion, but personally I find Gracie a bit bland. I enjoy her more this year than last year (where I found her still pretty junior-ish), but I think she needs to put more visible passion into her programs. She has the technical aspect, but I'm not really 'wanting' to watch her yet.
     
  11. MrLucky

    MrLucky New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    639
    As Frank has tried to get Gracie to sort of ease up on the ice and skate just like it's a practice run-through we just saw Adelina rewarded for the exact opposite approach.

    Adelina did not hold back on her speed, and if anything jumped bigger than ever.

    Gracie looked more deliberate, and her jumps did not seem as strong as they have been in the past.

    It will be interesting to watch these two at Worlds. Will Gracie beat Adelina with her more careful approach? Will Adelina be able to duplicate or even come close to her best ever LP from Sochi?

    I think Frank's methods are terrific for the long haul - but just as Kwan lost to a more energized Tara in Nagano caution is not always best at the Olympics.

    Just my perception but Adelina looked like she was willing to risk a place on the podium by going all out to win the Gold.

    Gracie, skating after Caro and Adelina looked like she was trying to hold onto 4th place rather than risking everything for a chance to move up.

    Maybe others see it differently? This is not about judges or home ice but about skating under the bright lights and what it takes to win.
     
  12. canbelto

    canbelto Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2002
    Messages:
    1,443
    Get away from Lori Nichols? I know that sounds snide but Gracie needs choreography that builds upon her excellent technical skills. Her choreography now is a bit bland and ice princess-like. She needs choreography that showcases her huge jumps and fast spins in a more exciting way. Her technical scores, as has been pointed out, are already very high.
     
  13. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2002
    Messages:
    10,614
    If she continues to skate to traditional "ice queen/pretty girl/princess" music, I don't think she's going to have a breakthrough.

    Her Chicago SP and her first SP show that she has great range and great capabilities. I think she needs choreography that she can have some fun with. I really hope Frank and Lori realize that it's 2014 and she doesn't have to compete against some ideal or style from the early 90s.

    From the interview with her mother that talked about how despondent GG gets over mistakes, it will be very challenging for her to thrive as the US #1. But Nationals and her team free skate must lift her spirits and give her confidence.
     
  14. kuzytalent

    kuzytalent Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    Messages:
    419
    She has an impossible task. She must both improve her skating in many areas, but also change her citizenship to Russian. She has no hope to be 30 points better than Sotnikova and Lipnitskaya and most of all Radianova (the likely dominator the next 4 years) which is what is yet again back to being required to beat a Russian in figure skating.
     
  15. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,891
    Maybe, but seeing as Caro with Lori programs is the one person who literally kept Gracie from the podium, I'm not so sure. Also, Lori seems to have been the nudge that got Kwan and Caro onto podiums in the first place, so.. :shuffle:

    I also think that article's idea that Frank took her more away from her "ice princess" default into a more "Grace Kelly" package with costumes and choreo means they are going in the right direction. Lori has done non-pwettypwincess programs, so I'm not convinced she's the main problem here. Maybe Gracie is just growing up.

    Frank hardly holds the pattent on skating safe (he wasn't Irina's coach in SLC), and I disagree Tim G got that surprise bronze by not skating all out. All-or-nothing is a risk. It paid off for Adelina, for Mao, not so much... :shuffle:
     
  16. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2008
    Messages:
    3,274
    I find that with Gracie everything appears so rehearsed and very much like a pageant queen. She was very tight and cautious at the Olympics and on the defense. She needs to attack and execute everything full out with all of her energy, much like Adelina did at the Olympics and like she did at Nationals in Boston.
     
  17. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Messages:
    6,972
    Thank you. I couldn't find the words, but I too saw the irony of Gracie dialing back because of FC, and Adelina upsetting the current Queen by going all out w/ huge, almost uncontrolled jumps. Thanks for posting this.
     
  18. tarotx

    tarotx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    1,528
    You have to learn how to skate clean to be consistent. If dialing it back makes you be able to hit even when you are off than I say that is the best approach especially when you are early in your career. If going all out and attacking your elements like it's now or never gets you to skate clean that is the best approach for you. Everybody is their own person so you have to know the person when deciding an approach.

    This Olympics was Gracie's first skate as the US #1. She did really good.
     
  19. Johnny_Fever

    Johnny_Fever New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,101
    Hire an assassin? :D
     
  20. Yazmeen

    Yazmeen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2003
    Messages:
    3,265
    You have perfectly described my feelings about Gracie Gold. Nothing about her, from her movement on the ice to her "smiles" appears really natural. I referred to her elsewhere as "Barbie on Ice" - she indeed does looks too rehearsed and too beauty queen-ish. And I really hope she doesn't think she only lost to Carolina because she fell (which she has suggested). She doesn't come close to having the energy and attack of Adelina or the beauty and effortlessness of Yuna and Carolina. But can overcoming this rehearsed look really be taught to her?
     
  21. Johnny_Fever

    Johnny_Fever New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,101
    Skating is such a mind game, you can't predict how any girl will perform on any given day. Sotnikova has something to lose now, so she might choke the next time around. Lipnitskaya choked this time, so she might have something to prove the next time around. I don't know where Gracie's head is at right now.
     
  22. Spun Silver

    Spun Silver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,320
    i love Gracie and her new sense of security under Frank's coaching, but I am not sure the Grace Kelly/january Jones (Mad Men) look either fits her or appeals to our era. When Gracie was on Leno, she was so smart, self-possessed and funny, every bit as much as Ashley. I would like to see her use music that really speaks to her, and maybe take dancing lessons (not just ballet but jazz, ballroom, and Afro-Caribbean) to loosen her up and help her become more expressive.

    On the other hand, maybe all she needs is another season with Frank. She almost made the Olympic podium. Seems to me she's on the right track.
     
  23. screech

    screech Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,879
    It might not sound great of me, but I wish she would use her given name of 'Grace' instead of 'Gracie'. 'Gracie' sounds much more childish, and makes it harder to equate her with maturity. I know her name has nothing to do with her skating (and her skating has matured a lot over the last year), but I may somehow be projecting the name thing onto her performances when I watch her. Maybe the judges too?

    JMHO.
     
  24. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Messages:
    30,471
    I wish she'd turn her Chicago EX into a program. Other than that, she needs to land jumps like she did at Nationals, was quite a bit tighter at the Olympcs, and she needs to project and sell her programs more. Not everyone can be Dai but everyone should at least try.
     
  25. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,891
    Oh thank God! Someone to pick-up Kimmie Meisner's mantle! For a second there, I thought we'd be cast adrift without one contender for the "Peggy Flemming award". And I refuse to watch any broadcast where the commentator goes by Johnny! :p
     
  26. Spun Silver

    Spun Silver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,320
    She tried, her team issued a dictum, but it was ignored. Apparently we like "Gracie." This was before she moved to Carroll so perhaps Sir Frank can make it happen if she still wants to be Grace... but it is probably too late. She informed the world, "i am Gracie Gold" in her VISA ad.
     
  27. lilshorty

    lilshorty Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    106
    I personally would like to see her have a complete style overhaul. Everything from her packaging (hair, makeup, costumes) to having more interesting, edgier programs and choreography. The technical aspect is already there. She just needs to be consistent and slightly less cookie cutter and boring. Also, a small nitpick, but I really wish she would be less stiff and relax her shoulders while skating. But that's just how I feel...
     
  28. DreamSkates

    DreamSkates New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Messages:
    815
    That's how the gold medal has been won at least in the ladies event, for the past several olympics. Lapinski vs. Kwan, for example. Hughes did it, Kim and Arwakawa.
     
  29. princeton123

    princeton123 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2014
    Messages:
    312
    Well, I think it's safe to say no Russian ladies are winning that gold in Pyeongchang so maybe she doesn't have to do all that much.
     
  30. altai_rose

    altai_rose Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2004
    Messages:
    2,519
    :rofl: "Safe to say?"

    Gracie needs something that makes her stand out. Others have the big jumps (Sotnikova), better spins (Lipnitskaya), more presence on the ice (just about every other major contender...), etc.

    I prefer the name "Gracie Gold" instead of "Grace." :)