What is the secrect to landing on your Toe-Pick?

Discussion in 'Moves In The Field' started by FSWer, Mar 29, 2012.

  1. FSWer

    FSWer Well-Known Member

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    Say,I was wondering about this. Since Skaters need to always land on their Toe-Picks,and NOT their Flats...or they'll fall. Because looking DOWN can also make you fall. How do Skaters know if they have their Toe-Pick presisioned right on a jump to touch the ice?
    julieann and (deleted member) like this.
  2. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Point your toes while you jump.
  3. FSWer

    FSWer Well-Known Member

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    How do you know without being able to see your toes that they are pointed were you need them?
  4. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    You can feel your feet. If they are pointed, they are where they need to be.

    It's like how you know if you are holding your hand in a fist, or holding your fingers out, even without looking. You know what your body is doing. Feet are flexed or pointed. If they are pointed, they are pointed.
  5. pp55

    pp55 Member

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    The best way to learn it (to point toes) is to take ballet lessons. :)

    You can do it on your own if you have a big/tall mirror where you can see your legs. Looking at the mirror point your toes and try to feel the muscles. Repeat it a few times. Then try to point your toes without watching, use the muscle feel only, and then check in the mirror if you toes are pointed correctly.
    If you get it the next step is to jump up, point the toes and again check in the mirror if you toes are pointed.
  6. MR-FAN

    MR-FAN Kostner Softie

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    shouldn't you be landing on your outside edge?
  7. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    The toe hits the ice first and you roll down on to the outside edge. Otherwise you get a loud thunk sound, and a bad landing edge, because you landed flat, and flipped to the edge. Watch some spi mo, and you'll see how elite skaters land on the toe pick first
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2012
  8. MR-FAN

    MR-FAN Kostner Softie

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    Cool! So why do skaters who land on their toes usually slow way down and have a non-smooth landing edge?
  9. treesprite

    treesprite New Member

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    Hmm... I have never thought about this topic before. Landing with the toe pick touching down is just the way a person comes down - who really has to think about it? The issue is more with leaning forward so there is too much toe pick and a scratchy landing... don't do it.
  10. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I do! Well, only on my loop. I have a baby loop, so there isn't enough height to get really good toe point. If I don't concentrate really hard on pointing my toe, I go THUNK and land on the back of my blade. Then, because I landed so flat, there is no landing edge, I just come to a stand still.

    Not to mention, if it is underrotated, landing on the flat, means you are stuck (and likely to fall), landing on the toe pick, you can get that last bit of rotation by pulling around when you roll to the edge. It is much safer. As a previous coach liked to say 'you can't skate sideways'.

    In early ballet there is a lot of focus on jumping up by first lifting the heel and rolling through the toes and landing on the toe and rolling down to the heel- so it is a skill that is taught in dance. A lot of younger dancers jump up and down flat footed.
  11. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    They all land on their toes.

    As treesprite said, it is about their body being pitched too far forward, so rather than rolling off the toepick onto the outside edge, they land on the toepick and drag it.
  12. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    In this case, I think I know what you mean. When you're landing a jump, you want to land on the bottom half on the toepick, in which case rolling down onto the outside edge is an easy and natural motion.

    But sometimes, a skater will land a jump on their whole toepick, which is what causes the slow exit and non-smooth edge.

    (I'm not very good at explaining these things!)


    To answer your question: when I was learning my salchow, I'm sure everyone in the rink got sick of hearing my coach shout, "Point your toe! Point your toe!" while I was in midair! :lol:
  13. FSWer

    FSWer Well-Known Member

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    What if you have the worse sence of feel? BTW. was I right at saying Skaters land on their Toepuicks for a jump?
  14. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you were right- but it is important to remember they don't STAY on their toe picks for very long. It is just the toe pick is the first thing to touch down.


    If you have a bad sense of feel, you need to practice thinking about it. There is something called 'proprioception' and it is one of the senses (if you get more advanced than the sense of sight, taste, touch, smell, and hearing). This is the ability to know your own body movement without seeing. An athlete generally has better proprioception than the general population.

    For example- I know my toe is pointed because I can feel my ankle pointing my foot. However, my proprioception isn't good enough that I can tell where my leg is in my attitude spin (layback position- but I don't layback yet). I'll think it is perfect, and my coach will yell at me. Because I can't see it, I can't tell where it is. This seems to be the problem you may have with knowing whether your feet are pointed. Someone suggested practicing in a mirror- that way you can get used to what it feels like when it looks right, and then eventually you will know the feel without having to look.
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  15. FSWer

    FSWer Well-Known Member

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    So basicly our Proprioception is our since of feel for our bodies?
  16. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Yes. But feel for your body is a good way to say it. It is a different thing than what touch feels like, so the word feel can be confusing.

    A really good example is this: if you close your eyes, can you touch your nose? Proprioception is the way you know where you nose was, even though you can't see it. There are some people with impaired proprioception (either naturally due to a disorder, or an induced state, such as being drunk) who will be unable to do this.
  17. sfahrut

    sfahrut Member

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  18. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Even if they don't have dancer-esque toe point, they are going to HAVE to point their toe at least a small amount on the landing. Having them pointed while rotating doesn't do anything for the landing, it just makes for a prettier jump- that is not when toe point is essential

    It is not SAFE to land jumps on the back of the blade. As someone else said, you land on the bottom part of the toe pick, but still the toe pick.
  19. FigureSpins

    FigureSpins New Member

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    Over the past few years, the in-air position has changed from a toe-pointed to a flexed foot, the reason being that it uses different muscles and allows for a much stronger, tighter crossed position over the landing side. It also helps stop "wrapping" of the crossed leg/ankle. However, Skittl's correct in that the skater does indeed point the toe right before landing. After the toepick touches, the skater "rolls down" from the toepick to the landing edge, while bending the knee to absorb the impact.

    Weak landings are usually caused by the skater not being over that landing foot properly. If a skater is tilted too far to the landing side, the landing leg can fold underneath them and they fall to the side. Leaning away from the landing side results in belly-whoppers and sprawls.

    Being too far forward over the blade prevent the toepick-to-edge landing. The toepick digs in and slows the skater too abruptly, so they fall to their knees or hop to save the landing. Sometimes, they overcompensate and lean backward to try and save the jump, resulting in an expected seat on the ice because they roll off the blade tail.

    Trevor Laak explains "Skating Jump Secrets" very well with videos:
    http://skatingjumpsecrets.com/
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2012
  20. MR-FAN

    MR-FAN Kostner Softie

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    You are! Thanks :)
  21. Johnny_Fever

    Johnny_Fever New Member

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    That's a tough habit to break. I know some people who's jumps were doomed from day one because they developed a wrap.
  22. sfahrut

    sfahrut Member

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    When skaters just start learning triples they don't feel yet when to open up and land on a toe. They just go for the tightest position and getting over landing side. It comes later, after building up hight and length and enough time in the air. Some skaters still will have flat or slightly flatish landings even after mastering jumps. It is not as easy as just saying to them 'point your toes'. Sometimes it takes real effort. And some skaters just naturally have it, almost as a reflex.
  23. treesprite

    treesprite New Member

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    I'm confused here. Which foot in which jumps are people talking about for toes being pointed? I just have never had to think about it.
  24. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    The landing foot should be pointed. So if you jump anti-clockwise, your right foot.
  25. Bunny_Hop

    Bunny_Hop New Member

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    When I started doing waltz jumps, I couldn't get off the toepick after landing, and I'd end up just wiggling there with my toe stuck in the ice (I didn't have much landing speed either, which it why I didn't skid/fall) until I had to put the other foot down.

    I eventually solved it by remembering to bend my ankle, instead of my waist, when I felt the toepick hit the ice. That's the way I land on a pointed toe and then glide backwards.

    For my salchow, I've had a bit more of a problem with flat landings, which are rather scary, as people say. The same principle presumably applies but (until last week when I "landed" it, fingers crossed it sticks) the jump was just a bit wobbly and causing errors like that.
  26. FSWer

    FSWer Well-Known Member

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    I tried some Jumps when I went to the Rink (see my Trainning Reports). I think I gained some hieght.
  27. Katarzyna

    Katarzyna Well-Known Member

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    I too tend to land my Salchow on flat. Mostly when I do a bad one (which happens quite often when I had a break from skating). I think partly it can be attributed to lack of height - I hardly get of the ice when I do a bad Salchow. :(
    Don't have this problem so much with my waltz, toe or loop. :confused: