What is the difference between a jump combination and a jump sequence?

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Bookslut, Jan 30, 2012.

  1. Bookslut

    Bookslut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2010
    Messages:
    49
    Could someone explain?
     
  2. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    18,089
    Combination -two or three jumps done directly one after the other. The take off for the second and third jumps are always done from the landing of the previous jump.

    Sequence - two jumps that have other content between them such as a turn or small jumps. Two axels done together will always be a sequence because the skater has to turn to do the second jump.

    Hope that explains it.
     
  3. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

    Joined:
    May 27, 2002
    Messages:
    31,122
    From the ISU Technical Panel Handbook for Singles 2011/2012:
     
  4. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,553
    I wish they would allow more than 3 jumps in a combination.
     
  5. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    12,450
    Really ?
    I think it's not good for the overall quality. A jump alone is often more beautiful than a combo. IMO, 3 combos are more than enough !
    I miss programs like Kristi Yamaguchi's 1992 LP, Vanessa Gusmeroli's 2000 LP...with one opening combo, and that's it !
     
  6. Bookslut

    Bookslut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2010
    Messages:
    49
    Thank you all, I get it now!
     
  7. zilam98

    zilam98 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    1,147
    skaters are even struggling to land just a single jump down, what makes you think they can do more than 3 jumps in a combo? :rolleyes:
     
  8. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    9,320
    Oh, how I wish I got to see more 2A/2T/2T/1T's!!!
     
  9. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

    Joined:
    May 24, 2003
    Messages:
    19,946
    Pairs skaters, especially, used to do wonderful, long jump sequences in their Free Skates, covering a lot of ice.

    Multiple jumps combinations, in which both jumps have equal height and run out are rare enough when there are two jumps, but I think we're lucky to see a handful of good-great three-jump combos in any championship, prelims included.
     
  10. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    3,408
    If no steps or turns are allowed to be part of a sequence then how is it that 2A+2A is allowed to be a sequence? One lands on the RBO edge and there is a step to LFO edge to take off for the axel.

    Similarly a lot of the pairs include a 3T and either 3T or 2T in sequence which nearly always includes a half loop with a step on a RBO for the take off of the toe-loop.

    How does that all work?
     
  11. sk8girl

    sk8girl Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
    Messages:
    339
    :rofl::rofl::rofl:
     
  12. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2002
    Messages:
    5,065
    I actually liked the roller skating-inspired sequences with edge jumps. The ones Marina Kielmann used to do would fit in that category. I know 2axel-L-L-2L-L-2L isn't the hardest thing in the world, but it demonstrated good control and proper landing positions. I thought they looked cool, but obviously YMMV :).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHA091VZyo0#t=03m55s
     
  13. sk8girl

    sk8girl Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
    Messages:
    339
    For 2A-2A sequences, they are usually connected by some sort of side hop, which fits the definition of a sequence. So, they will land the first 2A on the RBO edge, then do a quick side hop (L-R-L) that ends up on the LFO edge, which takes off into the second 2A. (This is for CCW skaters, obviously.) There needs to be some sort of little hop in there, not just a step forward from the first 2A landing directly into the second 2A.
     
  14. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2002
    Messages:
    5,065
    You would think stepping right into a second jump without an additional side toe hop would demonstrate more control, but apparently the ISU doesn't feel the same way.
     
  15. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    12,450
    And Claudia Leistner's ? http://youtu.be/rvSWGlyd9vs?t=3m20s
     
  16. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Messages:
    20,764
    http://youtu.be/S3lT3dQoU10?t=2m5s
     
  17. Louis

    Louis Tinami 2012

    Joined:
    May 10, 2001
    Messages:
    11,507
    I think the ISU "ruled" that jumps stepping directly into an axel still count as a sequence.

    During the first years of COP, there were instances where a 2A stepping directly into another 2A was called two separate elements. Skaters then ended up with one too many elements and were severely penalized.
     
  18. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    3,408
    You're absolutely right about the 2A's but e.g. how do S/S get away with the 3T sequence according to those rules, they do 3T-side hop-LFO three turn-step onto RBO edge-3T http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4a5FDDgtVg the turn is expressly outlawed in the rule Sylvia posted :confused:
     
  19. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,836
    I always liked Slutskaya's Triple Sal, Double Loop, 1/2 Loop, Double Sal combo
     
  20. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2003
    Messages:
    10,619
    I think they hopped the three turns, so they count as hops rather than turns on the ice.

    No, they don't get very far off the ice, but enough to make that distinction.

    That's my guess, anyway.
     
  21. all_empty

    all_empty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2002
    Messages:
    1,219
    A spectacular 2A right into another 2A:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeEg4ab7Wu0&feature=player_detailpage#t=189s

    This would be illegal today:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fexLmuu4mlI&feature=player_detailpage#t=60s

    It would be scored as a 3T+1Lo+3S+2T (she did a split jump before this sometimes)

    And two different jump series by the great G+G

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B0tSnQKzwo&feature=player_detailpage#t=262s

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSSfZlJNkGE&feature=player_detailpage#t=165s

    I much prefer these to the hideous 3T+3T sequences pairs are doing today
     
  22. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    3,408
    Thanks gkelly, i see what you mean there is definitely a hop on the three turn, and equally a slight hop onto the right foot prior to the second 3Ts. Still it seems like a bit of a bend of the rules, so much so that you wonder why the skaters aren't allowed to include turns and steps.