What is the difference between a Death Spiral/Inside Death Spiral?

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by FSWer, Jun 14, 2011.

  1. FSWer

    FSWer Well-Known Member

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    Say,I always thought a Death Spiral was a Death Spiral. As that's when the male spins the girl on her feet. Or what not.What makes an inside Death an inside Death?
     
  2. Clarice

    Clarice Active Member

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    It depends what edge the girl is on. She can be on a forward outside or inside edge, or a backward outside or inside edge.
     
  3. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Death spirals are defined by the skate blade edge and direction of the female pair skater when she is circling around her male partner. So that means there are 4 possible death spirals: forward inside edge, back inside edge, back outside edge, and forward outside edge.

    I would post youtube video examples but you can't watch youtube on your computer, right? :(

    ETA: Some photos of the different death spirals can be viewed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_spiral_(figure_skating)
    (try and picture the female circling her male partner in a counterclockwise direction on the ice)
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2011
  4. purple skates

    purple skates Shadow dancing

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    When I (briefly) did adult pairs, I could do the forward inside, but the back outside scared me - yet I've heard other people say the back outside is easier. Then again, I'd rather do a flip than a toe loop any day, so there's no accounting for taste. :lol:

    Anyway, back to the death spiral, you have to have the right amount of tension between the hands/arms of the couple. One time we didn't, and my partner let go and I slid almost all the way across the ice (long ways). It was kind of fun, actually. :p

    The other thing is that I felt so low to the ice and like I was going into it so fast, but when I saw it on video, umm, not so much. Oh well, it wasn't a bad effort for people in their 40's. :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2011
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  5. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    There are 4 types of death spirals- forward inside (the easiest, IMO), back inside, back outside, and forward outside (very rare, but I think S&Z had performed it long ago). From the name itself it's easy to identify the woman's edge (inside or outside) and the direction of her movement on the ice (forward or backward).
     
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  6. skatemommy

    skatemommy Well-Known Member

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    The Protopopov's named them all...too tired right now to find a link.
     
  7. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Death Spiral is the name of the move. Inside or outside refers to what edge it is done on. Forwards or backwards is the way the lady is facing when she does the death spiral.
     
  8. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    From the Wikipedia link I posted above:
     
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  9. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    There are four types of death spiral that all depend on the direction she is spinning (forward and backward) and the edge she's using (inside and outside).
    ISU rates the outside edge ones harder.
     
  10. taf2002

    taf2002 flower lady

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    This is an interesting subject. I think the longer you watch skating, the more you focus on the edge of the blade. At least that was true for me. One easy way to tell outside from inside is that on inside, the lady's feet are neatly crossed. With the outside edge, her free leg is lifted.
     
  11. skatemommy

    skatemommy Well-Known Member

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    ^actually, the free leg is not lifted in the FORWARD outside death spiral

    ^^thanks Sylvia as usual :)
     
  12. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    I would like to see more skaters try the FiDs, it must be very difficult needing strength and balance. I would like to see the free leg up vs. the way S/Z did it with the free leg bent and close to body.

    FoDs
     
  13. DustPuppyOI

    DustPuppyOI Well-Known Member

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    Early Shen & Zhao (1998!) had the free leg up on the forward outside spiral: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi6DnkGxnqM

    Brasseur & Eisler had a non lifted leg version back in 1993: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWhLmuhfgGU

    (Clearly I haven't been watching much of pairs lately :slinkaway)
     
  14. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    You mean FoDs?

    Well, they used to do it with the free leg straight, before it was a feature to bend it up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi6DnkGxnqM
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2011
  15. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    Well, they used to do it with the free leg straight, before it was a feature to bend it up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi6DnkGxnqM[/QUOTE]

    Yes, your right...too many acronyms :shuffle:

    I like variations but the bent leg looks like if she fell she really could have cut herself. I like the straight leg one, thanks for finding it.
     
  16. skatemommy

    skatemommy Well-Known Member

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    Yet another thing about pairs that COP has ruined. My least favorite part is the spiral sequence - watching a male pair skater grab his blade and attempt to hoist it above the hip :yikes:
     
  17. taf2002

    taf2002 flower lady

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    Sorry, I was trying to devise a simple way to identify the different ones that I forgot about FODS. It seems that BODS are more common than forward.
     
  18. skatemommy

    skatemommy Well-Known Member

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    ^actually taf, I'm wrong. The old-fashioned FODS were done with a straight let. I forgot that the COP death spirals could actually have the lady's free leg over her head all in the name of points :) Can you tell which one I like better? Also hate pair spins now...
     
  19. Castlerock

    Castlerock Member

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    What is supposed to be the correct position of the lady? Sometimes they are very low to the ice and feet together. Other times it looks like they are having a hard time arching their back and the foot is way up and bent?
     
  20. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    Here are the guidelines for the tech panel calling death spirals and their features, which may answer some of your questions:
    http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/First Aid Pairs.pdf

    It seems to me from years of watching but not paying close attention that on the back inside death spiral sometimes the lady is supine (face up) with the handhold leading the travel of her body, and sometimes she is prone (body facing down) but arched up to look up at the partner, with her blade leading and the handhold following her body. That body position is also common in forward inside death spirals.

    Are there any pair skaters reading here who can confirm? And is it possible to transition from one to the other of those positions just by speeding up or slowing down the lady's travel in relation to the man's, or are the two possible positions mutually exclusive in the same death spiral?

    I don't have time to look for examples, but maybe I will later.
     
  21. 5Ali3

    5Ali3 Active Member

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    That document is outdated, because the definition of a death spiral changed - again - this year. The traditional idea of a death spiral is that the man is in a pivot position while the lady circles around him, supported by one blade and connected one-hand-to-one-hand. When boys were men and Mr. Nicks and Luddy ran the world, the boys were supposed to be in a low pivot, sitting back as far as possible, while the girls were as low to the ice as possible; there was (ideally) a single straight line that extended from the girl's skating leg through her linked arm to the boy's linked arm to the boy's free arm. Meno and Sand are a great example of this style of death spirals.

    When death spirals got levels, they started getting higher and higher and higher and uglier: unanticipated consequences. Over the past (what are we at now: five years? six years?) half-decade, the ISU keeps becoming stricter about the position in the death spiral. This year's new rule says that a death spiral will receive NO VALUE if the lady's head never reaches the level of her knee, with her hip about in line with the knee-head connection. This is NOT the traditional position, because it eliminated the arch that has been the traditional goal of the lady's position. At the moment, the word on the street is that this new provision requires only that the lady's head reach the level of her knee-hip for a split-second. This isn't in writing yet, but it's supposed to be in the official clarifications out of Frankfurt. :shuffle:

    The IJS position rules eliminated the upward-facing position several years ago; it doesn't allow the head-hip-knee requirement, so it's no-value.

    Do you mean the BiDS face-up and BiDS twisted-over? Um... [contorts body] Well, I guess that it's possible, but that doesn't explain why someone would want to. Why don't we have a smilie for "my back hurts just thinking about it?" I suppose this will have to do: :irina1: :)lol:)
     
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  22. lt901

    lt901 Member

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    Keep in mind that the skater's body position (leg extension, back arch, head placement) will be affected by the skater's anatomy: how the skeleton is articulated, and the proportion of weight carried on each side of the midline, as well as the physical range of motion of the shoulders, spine and hips. The coach may wish to have a skater try for an unusual position, but there are physical limits unique to each skater.
     
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