What does Richard Dornbush need to do to move into the top tier of men's skating?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by olympic, May 1, 2011.

  1. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Or do you feel like he's 'on the right track' already and it's just a matter of time and experience?

    He's fresh out of Juniors, so I think he's proven a lot in little time.

    He proved in worlds that in addition to good technique, he's got a decent head for competition [staying cool under pressure]. I noticed at Worlds how good both his speed and spins are, as well as the jumps

    Also, is Tammy Gambill the coach that can take him to the top tier? Will he need someone to help him develop more 'flair'?

    One thing I think he needs is to get at least a 4toe, which considering the jump height he gets, is doable.

    What do you think???
     
  2. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Top 10 at World's doesn't put you in the top tier? Man, you're tough! How big is your tier?

    I'd like to keep see him doing what he's doing, as you said- he's fresh out of junior's, he just needs some time to skate with the big guys. I think a quad is necessary as well.

    I hope he stays with the same coach. Having more coaches take skaters to top events helps develop the program. What will the US do when the very few elite coaches retire? Unless there is a problem, I don't see any reason for him to leave a coach that he is doing well under.

    But in my mind, US Nationals podium, and top 10 at World's puts you in the top tier of skating.
     
    bardtoob and (deleted member) like this.
  3. ks777

    ks777 Well-Known Member

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    I think he has good basic skating skills already. He needs a quad and consistancy.
     
  4. Pretty Vegas

    Pretty Vegas Well-Known Member

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    I definitely think he's on the right track and just needs more experience. He has a wonderful future. His jumps are gorgeous but I agree, his speed and spins are top-notch as well. I couldn't believe how fast he was at Worlds. I didn't remember him skating that fast at Nationals but I think he had so much nervous energy that he just used it in that way. He has a lot going for him. He just needs more time and polishing. And a quad would be nice. But with as great as his jumps are, I suspect he'll have one sooner rather than later.

    I hope he stays with Tammy. I know he's been with her his entire skating career but there's something to say for that. They seem to have a wonderful relationship and she's done a wonderful job teaching him. I'm really glad he got the experience to go to Worlds this year because I think that's going to benefit him greatly. He should be very encouraged by his scores and placement at Worlds. I'm looking forward to seeing what programs he has next season. Sherlock Holmes was so perfect for him. I didn't realize how invested in him I had become already until I was SO nervous to see him skate at Worlds. I know I'm already an uber for him but I think he has a lot to look forward to.
     
  5. Hedwig

    Hedwig Rarely here anymore but I try to be better!

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    He just needs to keep doing what he is already doing.
    His trip to Worlds will have come as a surprise even to him and he handled it magnificently.

    I hope he does not feel like he is the 1st American because that would enable him to train under not too much pressure for the next season and hopefully to create interesting programs again as opposed to skating warhorse programs like Tosca that people who think they are the best of the country almost always seem to do.
    I really liked his programs this year and his personality on the ice but he skates still a bit like a junior and I am eager to see him grew into a real senior skater!
     
  6. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    For me, he is not better than a young Joubert.
    And as Joubert, he needs a style, he needs to be more polished.
    After all, it worked for Joubert, 2007 World champion. ;)
     
  7. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    I think Tammy Gambill should just steadily groom him to the next Olympics, adding quads while maintaining and developing his skating skills. He is at a stage in physical development when he can look forward to added strength over the next few years, which will help him.

    I don't think he needs more flair per se because his programs are already rather interesting.

    I don't think there is another American coach that can help Richard more than Tammy. The best American coaches right now tend to just produce good skaters rather than anything else :puppet:
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2011
  8. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    quad and improved skating skills to compete with Dai, Oda and the like

    That said it's too early to have great expectations for Dornbush. Look at all those young and promising US men who placed top ten at worlds on their first try and now where they are (Carriere, Mroz, Rippon...)
     
  9. bek

    bek Guest

    I think Dornbush has a lot more going than those three. Mroz doesn't have great skating skills. Carriere never had the best triple axel technique. And Rippon is very inconsistent with triple axel, lacks power.

    Obviously there's still time but I think technically Dornbush is a LOT stronger than those three.
     
  10. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Gettin' my sass out

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    Personally, i think he's well on his way...
     
  11. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    I think he's just got to keep doing what he's doing. I look forward to seeing him develop.
     
  12. RockTheTassel

    RockTheTassel Well-Known Member

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    I hope Richard begins to gain more confidence. He looked nervous before his SP at Worlds, and it was probably why he made errors on the jumps. But hopefully the silver medal at nationals and the top ten finish at Worlds will help him. He's done really well this year, and I look forward to seeing him next season. :cheer:
     
  13. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    ^ His nerves probably got to him a little only because he probably went a little farther (may be a lot farther) than expected. I bet he expected to only medal at Jr Worlds.
     
  14. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    Looking like the quad might not be too far off: :)

     
  15. ~tapdancer~

    ~tapdancer~ Well-Known Member

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    Keep improving and developing. He's amazing already and I can totally see him as a front runner...how soon remains to be seen but he's on track for Sochi, imo. I saw him live at Nationals and his FS was my favorite by far. I'll be rooting for him all the way.
     
  16. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    Hasn't Dornbush's SPs been sort of problematic for him this whole season while the LPs have been stellar? He needs to deliver solid SPs with no iffy jumps' landings.
     
  17. Hedwig

    Hedwig Rarely here anymore but I try to be better!

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    A Sochi team of him and Jason Brown plus Adam Rippon would be my wet dream. :inavoid:
     
  18. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    I think he has good programs, skating skills and is consistent enough. He really needs a quad and I'm not sure if he does a 3A in combination with another triple yet. He's like a Patrick Chan of a few years ago - can he reach Chan's heights??
     
  19. Pretty Vegas

    Pretty Vegas Well-Known Member

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    He has a 3A/3T that seems to be very consistent, he was able to pull it off in the second half of his program at Worlds.
     
  20. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Thanks to all.

    If I was forced to pick a jump that might be oh-so-slightly weak for him, it might be the 3sal, but not by a lot. He has the whole reportoire of jumps with no danger of UR's.

    So, I think if he could do a Quad, it would probably be a 4toe [maybe x2] not a 4sal, and as everyone says, the Quad will greatly help his cause.

    Does he beat a revitalized Rippon on the Nats level [w/ a 3x]? How would you measure these 2 against one another?
     
  21. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    If Rippon manages the quad lutz- I think he may be the future of the USA program. If he doesn't get a consistent quad, it's tough to say.
     
  22. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    This is the first year that I've seen Dornbush skate. Dornbush's Sherlock Holmes program is way more interesting to watch than what Rippon has been putting out for the past few years. Putting these two head to head I would favor Dornbush to come out on top.
     
  23. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. I get you. I meant by 'top tier' equal with top men like Oda, Kozuka, and possibly Chan. [Don't know yet how I feel about Gachinski]
     
  24. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I think so too. He has better jump technique and stronger nerves than the others, it would appear. He's also older than Rippon, Carriere, and Mroz were when people were hyping them, and I think that makes a difference.

    I'd say all he needs now is a quad and more experience. I don't think he's going to be the next Chan or Kozuka or anything like that, but I do think he can enter the top echelon of men's skaters within the next few years.
     
  25. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Each of the guys mentioned has (or had) something the others don't and it's not as if Dornbush is head and shoulders above the other potential contenders. Truth is I wouldn't have been surprised if Mroz or Adam ended up top ten at worlds ala Dornbush had those two been sent to worlds--that's because US actually has about 6 skaters who are capable of making top twelve at worlds like Dornbush. The only difference is that Dornbush did well at nationals to land the world spot while others didn't.

    I'm bringing it up because last time we hyped Adam look at what happened to him.
     
  26. bek

    bek Guest

    I was always not so sure about the Adam hype. When he won Jr worlds the first time he didn't have a triple axel-let along and quad. I frankly felt if he didn't have a triple axel by that age, would he ever have it. And its still inconsistent. And I wondered if he'd ever be competitive on the top stage. Because jumps are pretty important. Adam's a lovely skater, but technically I don't think he's ever been competitive with the top men.

    Yes I agree that Mroz others could be top 10 too, but I still think Dornbush is better than them. I'm not exactly completely willing to write of Brandon yet, but Brandon is a bit inconsistent, and his skating skills aren't good enough. He also lacks pizaaz.

    What I like about Dornbush is the technical skills are there. He has amazing jumps, great speed across the ice. And is starting to perform. He needs to improve his skating skills even more but I think the BASICS are there.
     
  27. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Since world spots will be decided by mainly US nationals, Dornbush will need to place top 2 again at nationals (next time under higher expectations and pressure). Given there're only two spots for worlds next time I won't be surprised if yet another young skater surprisingly makes it.

    That said great job to Dornbush at his first worlds. But he is still young and needs a longer senior track record before I can say much about him.
     
  28. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Continue to work hard, and continue to display consistency and perform to wonderful music and choreography that accentuates his strengths. I admire both Ross and Richard for how well they have carried themselves and for how well they performed under the pressure of their senior Worlds debut.

    I wish not that it apparently seems so crucial for them to train quads. I hope they and their coaches will take their time and consider approaching quads with caution and strategically without harming their bodies and their careers. I say focus on improving skating skills, maintaining consistency and choosing the right music and choreography first. They and their teams seem to have done an excellent job so far, and I hope the USFS will not interfere in a bad, pushy way with the development of these two seemingly well-adjusted young men/ superb competitors.
     
  29. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking, like you, that I'd rather have Richard be on the cautious side at all costs, but if his technique is sound and he has good speed, I assume he probably would survive Quad training better than most. Plus, it sounds like per Tammy Gambill that he is training them anyway, and has a good track record in practice.

    Besides, the Quad is going to be more crucial on the road to Sochi than it was on the way to Vancouver. In the LP this year, we saw several men do at least 1 Quad. We're seeing the 4sal from Brezina.

    Re Rippon - There is something the Intl. judges love about him and that will always put him in good stead with the USFSA. I recall when he moved to Orser, the 3x became more consistent and Orser was being hailed as the coach of the year, then the 3x went away again but I noticedit happened while his general consistency declined overal, so it's something beyond bad technique. I'd like to know what really happened in the past year.
     
  30. MikiAndoFan#1

    MikiAndoFan#1 Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Whatever Tammy Gambill is doing with him is working. I have to say, I was really impressed by Richard at Worlds, so I hope he and Tammy keep up the good work. :cheer2: