What does Jeremy need to do for a comeback?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by jlai, Jan 30, 2011.

  1. nashvilledancer

    nashvilledancer New Member

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    Right on, Ryan.

    Either a commentator or an article mentioned that Jeremy had lost 30 training days to boot problems. Even if the problem is now resolved, that's 30 days of run-throughs that he is behind compared to normal seasons.

    He's said he didn't want to peak at nationals, but having his season put back so far probably wasn't the plan. Of course he doesn't look fully trained, or have the stamina for the long program, given what he's apparently been dealing with.

    It would be great if the two weeks till 4CC allow him to produce a more fully realized "La Vitae e Bella" in Taipei. I love the program and would enjoy seeing a complete and beautiful performance to end his season. Actually, I'd like a miracle so he can still go to worlds...

    It's interesting to imagine the scathing posts if this site had been in operation in the days of Janet Lynn--a brilliant skater who often seemed to fall at the worst possible moment.
  2. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

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    I'm :fragile: for Jeremy not making it Worlds this year, but I don't predict doom and gloom for him either. Hopefully, he'll have a good performance at 4CC's that he can be pleased with and then begin to build for next season. (I think he's planning to continue, right?)

    I've been :huh: while reading this thread. Some posts come across as almost angry at Jeremy which really leaves me saying :huh:
  3. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Well-Known Member

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    ^Yup. Of course, as is standard for FSU, this thread is a bit "reactionary." I really think Jeremy's OK. He's had a below-par season, but with the injury and boot problems, it's perfectly understandable. I don't think he needs to use more "well known" music as a poster suggested earlier, becuase that isn't him, and by god we need more skaters like Abbott. All skaters have low times.

    It's true, I don't think he's blessed with the natural temperament of a champion, but he's getting a tad better - I still think he looked nauseous before the LP at Nats though. I also agree with whomever said he needs to fight a bit more; I do feel he's somewhat a (nervous) perfectionist, and the minute things go a bit wrong, he doesn't know how to buckle down and reign it in (during a programme) That's all linked to the mentality of a competitor, which I don't think he's worked out. Just because he has the natural ability to possibly be a (world) champion, doesn't meean he will be, because there are so many attributes a champion needs - it's not what they just do physically, but what goes on in their head. If a skater hasn't got that, they won't win, no matter how great their basics are etc.

    Still, give him some time to recover, get the right boots and maybe the quad back, and he could be fab next year. I also like that he's with Yuka and Jason. They seem like really positive coaches; and look what they've done with Alissa! I hope some of her success can rub off on him. I wish him the best.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2011
  4. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    Abbott's plan before Greensboro Nationals was to stay in the sport through 2012 at least, and this has also been confirmed by Sarah and Drew. I have to wonder though now that he is missing out on 2011 Worlds if he may change his mind and stick things out through 2013?
  5. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    Maybe not Worlds, but maybe he'll be sent to the World Team Trophy Event? Then we might see these programs fully realized. (after all, as alternate for Worlds, he'll stay training the programs)
  6. Simone411

    Simone411 aka IceSkate98

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    I've been thinking about the title of this thread and I think it should read as what Jeremy doesn't need to do.

    Jeremy was awesome when he performed his program at Skate For The Heart. His program was mesmerizing, full of pizzazz and exciting.

    It wasn't exciting when he performed the same program at Nationals. It looked as if he was more cautious or careful and didn't let go like he did at Skate For The Heart. I believe he felt pressure, held back and became tense because of the fact Nationals was a competition and not like Skate For The Heart where he could feel free to do what he loves to do ... which is skate.
  7. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Love Ryan's tweet -- he's always been a classy guy, respectful to and respected by his competitors.

    Ultimately, Jeremy will be the one to decide what he needs to do, and I wish him well. He is definitely "one of the best we've ever had."
  8. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    This is OT, but ...
    Guess you and others feel this way about Johnny's career, but that doesn't make it so. Johnny (as we all do in life and in our careers) made some decisions that didn't serve him well, but he also achieved great things, and thus his skill and talent have not gone to waste, no matter that others predicted/ wished it would. Did he have the talent to achieve more? Yes, absolutely ... but it is what it is, or should I say, When it comes to Johnny, it is what everybody else wants to make it. To me, the most tiresome thing is seeing people constantly trying to deny that Johnny is one of the best, and that he accomplished a lot. It may not be to your satisfaction, and you may not like what you think he's become, or what you feel he didn't live up to, but your thoughts* about Johnny mainly reveal who you are, not who he is. (*And mine too reveal more about who I am, than he is)
  9. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    That was my point. About both skaters.

    (It would be nice if Abbott was able to get a World medal at some point. Johnny got one before he moved on.)
    Cheylana and (deleted member) like this.
  10. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Johnny's problem was his skating peaked in 2004-2005. He didnt improve at all beyond that point for whatever reason. He showed amazing potential back then. He had a shot to medal at the 2006 Olympics due to the splatfest and blew it. After 2006 though even his best was no longer good enough against Takahashi, Lambiel, Lysacek, Oda, Chan, Joubert, Buttle, and others (even Abbott in 09-2010). Because he did not improve and most other top skaters kept improving the field passed him by.

    Abbott missed out worse in the sense unlike Weir his best skating would have been good enough to win a medal or possibly win at the 2009 Worlds and 2010 Olympics. It seems he has missed his own window now though. Even his best skating would never be good enough against a half decent Chan at this point.
  11. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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  12. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Thanks for the link

    I watched it yesterday. I like it but I prefer his comp
    Routines
  13. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    I've just watched his Exhibition at US Nationals, and really liked it.
    Not as complex or intricate as his competitive programs, but nice, light, refreshing.
    I don't know what the problem is, since I don't think it's just a headcase problem. I enjoy his programs even with falls, it's not Laetitia Hubert who gave up before the end of the program.
    Had he landed cleanly the Loop combo or rotated the 2nd Lutz (even with a fall) in the LP at US Nats, he would have been in the World team. I'm so sad :(
  14. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    Yes, had he not stumbled out of that 2toe (3loop+2toe+2toe) or not put his hand down on the 2nd 3Axel or got one of his spins (CSSp) from a Level 1 to a Level 2 or his step sequence (CiSt) from a Level 2 to a Level 3, he would be going to Worlds. Abbott really lost valuable points in places where he shouldn't have lost them. He's a very capable spinner and has shown great footwork in the past; pressure and mind games along with boot issues really did him in. Missing bronze and a World team berth by 0.19 really stings. :(
  15. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Abbott was not going to do well at Worlds this year anyway. His skating this season has been lacking in many ways other than consistency. Slow spins, more unsteady jump landings, lack of speed and pizzaz. If he is going to continue it is best to examine where his skating is going in the off season and come back alot stronger next season.
  16. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Well, you can be as sure as you want but the truth is that we'll never know how he would've done at Worlds since he isn't going. However, how many times have we predicted doom and gloom for a skater based on their GP performances then have it be totally different by the time Worlds comes around? Same thing for the opposite.

    I remember last year most of FSU was predicting a horribly skated ladies event at the Olympics based on the GP and it turned out to be arguably the best skated event of all the disciplines. What about Evan not qualifying for the GP Final in 2008-2009 and placing third at Nationals only to win Worlds?
  17. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    I don't know, I have a theory he was under-training a bit in order to build for the WC, whereas in the past two years his best performances came too early. Obviously, if this was the case, it backfired.

    In the 08/09 GP he hit three clean LP programs in a row, and I thought he had finally found stability in his jumping, but he's been up and down ever since...

    Let's see what he can do at 4CC. He better not leave anything on the table if he wants to be taken seriously next season. I hope he doesn't retire yet, even with the jump problems he's had some of the most memorable programs in the last few years and I don't even think he's hit his artistic peak yet.
  18. dinakt

    dinakt Well-Known Member

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    From what I gather, Jeremy is definitely competing next year- and after that it is not decided.
    I am very glad he'll continue. And very sad he will not got to the Worlds- because I agree, even with all the boot problems, his team might have been trying a different strategy this year, and it backfired by 0.19 points. A shame, as he just might have peaked at the right time, but now we'll probably never know.

    I hope we get some way to watch 4CC this year. US Men's team is awesome, plus it's Mirai's last appearance, V/M first appearance, and the Japanese team is on fire. Please Skate Gods, give us 4CC broadcast.
  19. Cyn

    Cyn Well-Known Member

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    I was absolutely gutted for Jeremy at Nationals this year :fragile:, to the point that I cannot bring myself to re-watch his FS.

    That being said, the sturm und drang about his skating career being a disaster/over is somewhat puzzling to me. He medaled at both of his GP events, even with horrid boot problems, finishing in 2nd behind WC Takahashi at NHK, and 3rd at CoR, which seemed to be a bizarre FS for all of the top men except Tomas Verner. He was the highest-ranked American skater in the Mens' GP season rankings (1st alternate).

    While I'm not an expert, it is my understanding that it can take a ridiculous amount of time to find the problem, which takes away training time (as already mentioned). Also, I'm not sure of the usual time it takes to break in a new pair of boots, but IIRC he had only been in his current ones for 5 weeks.

    Overall, I think mentally, he may have, with the absence of Lysacek and Weir competing this season, become a bit complacent and overconfident that it was a given that he would make the world team. I could be wrong on this, but if he had that mindset, combined with boot issues, the plan not to peak too early in the season (compared to previous seasons), it set the stage for disaster when Ryan Bradley stepped in with the quads and wound up in first place after the SP. Going into the FS, Bradley's 2-quad FS likely got into his head and that, combined with fantastic FS after FS from the skaters before him, unfortunately got into his head. He skated like someone scared of defending his title rather than skating with the command of being the 2-time national champion.

    Going into next season, he needs to

    - have equipment (boots, blades) that work well for him
    - work again on consistency. It seems that his consistency with the 3A has gotten quite better (while it hasn't been perfect, it's certainly better than his usual popping into a 1a or falling out of the landing, if he landed it two seasons ago).
    - re-think his spins. Looking back on Jeremy's spins in his programs from the previous two seasons when compared to this one, it's like watching a different skater altogether. They're slower, the positions seem awkward, and (obviously) they were more prone to losing levels than before. Ditto for his FW.
    - get the quad back into his programs

    On a personal note, I think it would do him well to have at least one of his programs done to music and with choreography that has not just passions, but some pow and umph to it - something akin to his "Treat" or "Dead Already" SPs. Much as I love his skating, the past two seasons, I found more of his programs to be a little snoozy and unless skated perfectly, it was very easy to lose interest (last season's SP to Jeff Beck's "A Day In The Life" was IMO one of his most boring programs to date), which could have definitely affected the judges' perception, resulting in lower PCS. He needs to have programs that will grab the judges' attention and never let it go.

    As far as the rest of the season, he just needs to go balls-out at 4CCs and not worry about what others are doing on the ice. I will say that I do if the USFS might find a way to change their entries to Worlds if Jeremy were to score extremely well and land on the podium with either a Silver (entirely possible) or Gold (unlikely, given how Kozuka has skated this season). Takahashi has been hit-or-miss this season, but I haven't followed his progress since the GPF (4th) and Japanese Nats (3rd).
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2011
  20. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    It's so interesting how perceptions differ.

    That was my favorite program of his ever. (but , granted, it never scored as well as it could have)

    He has so much to offer, I enjoy seeing what he has for programs every season. He's one of the few skaters willing to take a chance and grow artistically year to year.

    I hope he does whatever he needs to do and is back in the hunt next season.

    I also hope he doesn't keep the long for next season. It's beautifully choreographed, suits him, etc, etc...but it's a bad luck program.
  21. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    :rolleyes: About the only ways USFS could succeed in getting Jeremy to compete at Worlds is to:
    1. Get some thug to break one of the guys who are going to Worlds' kneecap.
    2. Get Scott Hamilton to hire Bradley for a huge salary, contingent on Ryan's not going to Worlds.
    3. Pay off Miner or Dornbush not to go to Worlds.
    :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    They did all they could by not sending any of the 3 medallists to 4 CC's.
  22. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    I'm blaming it on his name. Just a bad luck season for skating Jeremys.

    Jeremy Ten out of his Nationals, injured. Jeremy Abbott, out of WC, boot issues and ?, Jeremy Barrett out of 4CC, injured.
  23. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    Jeremy Barrett's out? that sucks
  24. Cyn

    Cyn Well-Known Member

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    :rolleyes: back atcha.

    I'm not sure why you felt the need to inject three :rolleyes: at my post or get so goddamned nasty - for god's sake, all I did was pose a question. It was hardly as though I was whining or wuzrobbing at his not being placed on the World Team.
  25. attyfan

    attyfan Well-Known Member

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    Don't give them ideas. I am sure that the USFS is desperate for the ratings it got after a different whack, and I don't want one of the men framed for something they didn't do.
  26. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    I apologize, Cyn--but it's one of those things that just isn't happening. And people have said so again and again. In fact, I don't recall that it has ever happened that a USFS skater who had been already announced to a team was pulled off it for any other reason than injury (Jeremy Barrett :wuzrobbed: ) or malfeasance requiring banning from competition (Tonya) in the 40 years I have been watching skating.
  27. manleywoman

    manleywoman podcast mistress

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    Oh, I SO disagree on that one. That's one of my favorite SPs ever.
  28. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

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    Ditto for me! I especially loved how the footwork and spins fit the music so perfectly. Shae Lynn Bourne's choreography was great!
  29. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    I like most of his programs, though I must say Mazquerade Waltz was the only one I enjoyed whether he skated it cleanly or not. The other ones do depend on his being clean to some degree -- esp. last year's long program.
  30. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    I would so love to see him do that waltz program again, with the growth he's shown in interpretation.
  31. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    It is one of my favorite SP. And as a Kwan fan, I didn't really like Michelle's version, and prefer Jeremy's.

    I think this is an interesting question, since the results were so close. The winner (Ryan Bradley) was only 4th in the LP, and we don't know how Richard and Ross will react for their first World championships.
    I'm sure many people in the USFS wanted to send other skaters than those 3. ;)
    Cyn and (deleted member) like this.
  32. Cyn

    Cyn Well-Known Member

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    From a technical and choreographic viewpoint, ITA. I just felt it was wasted on music that didn't do it justice - I realize this is JMO, but that version of ADITL is somewhat soporific (but then again, I'm not a fan of The Beatles). If I were a judge, I'd hear the music, and unless the skater was flawless and skated with total verve and passion, it wouldn't stand out, especially when compared with other SPs from last season.
  33. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    There are other skaters that USFS probably never wanted to send and did: Chris Bowman, Nicole Bobek, Tonya Harding (1991 & 1992), etc. However, those were the skaters that qualified in the years they were sent, and they were announced for the team at Nationals.

    The closest they ever came to doing something like that was sending Paul Wylie instead of Mark Mitchell to Olympics (and sending Mark to Worlds). But they announced it was that way just after Nationals. And they never heard the end of it about that one. And in 1980, when they sent Zayak instead of Lenz. In both cases, they split Olympics and Worlds. They didn't do a "No candy for you" trip on the medallists when there was just Worlds without Olympics.

    http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/1998/01/10/oth_220366.shtml
  34. manleywoman

    manleywoman podcast mistress

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    Which is exactly why when a a skating friend of mine said perhaps Mark Mitchell would pull Ross Miner out of Worlds to let Jeremy go, I said NO WAY.
  35. query5

    query5 New Member

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    go back to broadmoor-
    why-ogm medalist from broadmoor where they will cheat for him,
    ryan skater worse than jeremy stayed in 1st --broadmoor

    broadmoor- ogm medalist-dick, peggy, dorothy

    sc new york- sarah, carol heiss,
    sc boston- tenley
    tara-Detroit sc; now alissa
    how many people on trip was from those clubs.
    now
    scott hamilton-philadelphis fsc
    brian boitano-pennisula fsc
    kristi-st moritz.
    nothing cliqueish sure
    those are facts--just stating obvious,
  36. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Well, Jeremy's current club is Detroit SC so your club clique conspiracy theory doesn't hold water, sorry. :p
  37. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    Pretty funny. Evan is coached by Frank Carroll, and trained in California.

    Again funny. Jeremy crashed, burned and scratched his way through US Nationals. I understand he had new boots, which may explain it. Although at his best, he is better than Ryan, he just was not at his best.

    Dick was Skating Club of Boston throughout his amateur career.
    Dorothy started from the east coast, but moved to Broadmoor later.
    Peggy was Broadmoor.

    Which trip? the 1961 trip????

    You got some of the clubs wrong. Not to mention Mroz would have been the Broadmoor's boy for the push this year, I would think. Ryan was at Nationals being coached by his sister, although his previous coach Tom Z was in the KnC with him. Dornbush is coached by Tammy Gambill (California) and Miner is coached by Mark Mitchell and Peter Jorgensen (Skating Club of Boston).

    So your Broadmoor conspiracy theory does not work, not since Carlo Fassi died, anyway.
  38. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    me too!
  39. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    I was sitting on my couch, watching Nats, minding my own business, when Dornbush skated his LP. I remember thinking "whoa! If he's in 7th, imagine what ELSE we're going to see!" I guess you can imagine my reaction for most of the afternoon...:shuffle:

    [Actually, I went to go get a drink or something and missed a few performances, including Miner and Mroz. Somehow, when it was all over, I got the idea that the podium was Bradley/Dornbush/Mroz. Imagine my reaction when I saw that the world team was Bradley/Dornbush/Miner!]

    Anyway, I assume that USFS officials felt like it was 2008 in ladies all over again (although this was slightly different) and just put together the best team it thought it could.

    I hope that all three men whip out top-ten performances, but I have no way of guessing (although I'm pretty much obsessed with Ryan's short, so I'm looking forward to seeing that again!).

    Also, a funny story: when the event ended, I read about Joshua Farris' ankle. I told my mom about that and that he placed 21/22 competitors. She said, "boy, would I hate to be the guy who placed below the guy who broke his ankle!"
  40. nashvilledancer

    nashvilledancer New Member

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    Spin requirements changed this season. Can anyone with tech knowledge explain the requirements and what Jeremy's doing to meet them (or what he could do differently)? His spins are quite different from other peoples' and I think are really interesting looking and fit the music. His sit spin position is so stretched and low. His cross-foot spins are cool as is his upright spin with the back leg extended to the side. Others also have had some difficulty meeting the requirements of technical callers--Joubert, for one.