What does Jeremy need to do for a comeback?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by jlai, Jan 30, 2011.

  1. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    I'm disappointed for Jeremy for not placing top 3. If USFSA keeps their tradition, Jeremy won't go to worlds. I'm sad.

    Now time for the big question: WHat does Jeremy need to do for his comeback trail?

    I've been following Jeremy's career for some time. As I know more about him I am also becoming interested in how he grows as a person. He strikes me as a layback, relaxed sort--which is why so many fans, including me, like him.

    That said, I must say that top competitors tend to have an intense tunnel vision thing about them. Kurt Browning once said he never handled his own websites because the more things get in your head, the less you act like yourself out there (ie on the ice). Jeremy, OTOH, interacts with fans online regularly, signs many autographs during competitions, shares chocolate with a friend at worlds (or at least he's sighted doing so), reads what's said about him online, and even watches an international rival win their respective nationals (Chan at Canadian).

    Now all this is what makes Jeremy such a charming person, though at the same time I wonder if a bit more "tunnel vision" will help him better as a competitor. If he wants the world title, he may wanna rethink certain things to help him more focused and confident as a skater. But it's up to him--that's nothing wrong with being a relaxed and fun guy while being an elite competitor. It's his life, and he doesn't owe me any title (or any one for that matter). Whatever makes him happy I'm happy. :)

    I really like Jeremy as a person, and I would like to see him figure out how to turn things around when things are not going well. There's a life lesson here that is as important as winning or losing.

    Anyway: Jeremy, good luck next year!

    (I've never wanted to say this before as I'd been branded as a "traitor". Now is it too late to say it?) :(
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2011
  2. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    1. If there really is a boot issue- that needs to get fixed. Maybe a different boot company?
    2. If it's some kind of other injury or health issue, that needs to get fixed.
    3. A long rest would help. He's been going without his usual summer downtime.
    4. i am kind of under the impression that the social media helps him relax and express himself. He doesn't twitter much , if at all just before and during competitions.
    5. He's 25. At 17 you can live like a hermit. At 25 you really can't.
    6. School- I think College may help his perspective on life- even just an online course or 2. It would also help him start to look at what comes after skating.
    7. Rent a house- invite Adam, Ashley and Mirai to be roomies. Plot world domination.
     
  3. modern_muslimah

    modern_muslimah Thinking of witty user title and coming up blank

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    I don't even know what Jeremy can do anymore. I mean he seemed relaxed and he was goofing off even after his LP (a couple of years ago he would've been in tears). Maybe he was too relaxed? I mean if he got tunnel vision maybe that would make him tense again. I kind of wonder if his LP just didn't fit him or if he somehow needs more time with it. I mean he's made mistakes all season in the FS but done rather well with the SP.

    Perhaps this is a blessing in disguise and this will make him hungry. I think that's been missing this season. He hasn't seemed as hungry as he was in 08-09, 09-10.

    I wish him the best next season and I hope he doesn't get discouraged. Even when he doesn't skate his best, he's such a pleasure to watch. I have loved his LP this season, mistakes and all. I think he still has some fight in him and I really think he has the potential to get on a World podium.
     
  4. modern_muslimah

    modern_muslimah Thinking of witty user title and coming up blank

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    :lol: Perhaps they could do a reality TV show focusing on their attempts to dominate the world of figure skating and beyond.
     
  5. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Interesting point re the need for tunnel vision, as a competitor. Jeremy seemed to have it together. That was some competition though, and the next generation of U.S. male skaters were in the zone this afternoon. Looks like most of the younger guys had a fire lit under them knowing that Evan and Johnny were not competing (and they had nothing to lose -- Jeremy and Adam had something to lose and something to prove). There was a fierce battle for the top spots.

    I'm not sure what Jeremy does now. He's been undermarked this season. He is a lowkey guy and his programs have a complexity and depth that has just gone unrecognized and unrewarded. Perhaps it comes down to showing you can compete consistently well on the World stage, and do it in big moments (a test Jeremy failed at the Olympics -- and it seems he's been punished ever since). After he doubled the first triple today, he just had to keep going and skate clean and he would have made the team. Sure there's time for reflecting, taking stock, coming back next year -- but you only get so many chances in this sport. You need to have a lot of backing and support from key people (like Alissa has had), and from great fans and key people (like Ryan has had), but you also have to deliver, and maybe sometimes it's not fair, and you're being judged more harshly (especially when you've messed up before and missed big opportunities like Jeremy and Mirai).

    But it's never over, till ... (the coffin is sealed) -- and even then, there may be life after life.
     
  6. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    He definitely does that more than most other male competitor. I wonder how skaters like Lysacek or Lambiel keep a balance between skating and other parts of their life. Lysacek def. mentioned sacrificing social life for skating.

    Anyway I don't think introspective skaters should go watch their competitors compete (even if you're not in that competition)

    Yes, he needs to be hungry-- like wanting the world title badly enough. Sometimes he has this whatever happens happens mentality, so
    perhaps this is what he needs to take matters into his hands.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2011
  7. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    I am more worried that this has put an end to his show skating career.

    I had wanted to see him skate for many years in shows.

    So my advice for next year: creativity, expression. I feel he has a lot more to give as an artist. So- no more Mr Conservative.
     
  8. Wiery

    Wiery Well-Known Member

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    I think he just needs to keep skating and doing his best...Look at Ryan Bradley last season-wasn't he going to quit after the Olympics? He decided to keep trying, and look what happened? And Johnny Weir-after his dismal Nationals in 2008 (hope I got that year right), he went home, cried, pulled himself back together, worked his skinny little arse off and placed 3rd at Nationals and made the US. Olympic team. And Alissa...

    He's a wonderful, beautiful, gorgeous skater, and I think he's actually made progress with his competition nerves. People fall in competition-As Scott Hamilton keeps telling us over and over and over again, the ice is slippery and anyone can fall in competition. So he placed 4th at Nationals this year. It's just one event in his lifetime.
     
  9. modern_muslimah

    modern_muslimah Thinking of witty user title and coming up blank

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    IA. He shouldn't watch any of his top competitors compete. He should just focus on himself.


    I think he'll be hungry next season. He'll know he has to bring it, even when there is seemingly no competition. He was shocked when he was in third after his LP. He clearly wasn't expecting that and I wonder if he thought he would be held up by the judges. In that sense, perhaps he can take a page out of Chan's book. Chan could've risked zoning it in at Nationals but he still put it all out.
     
  10. DickButtonFan

    DickButtonFan New Member

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    I'm really shocked by his placement. He has too much talent to not be going to worlds. This worlds is going to be so weird without him and Mirai.
     
  11. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    This!
     
  12. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Jeremy is going to 4CC with Armin and Adam.

    "Taking matters into your own hands" means dealing with the nerves and pressure. What that must feel like, I don't know -- when the arena is alive with energy from previous skaters who've skated lights out, and you've got to go out there, gather that energy and let it work for you. Thinking too much can dissipate that energy and allow nerves to filter in and unwanted thoughts to sabotage. OTOH, when previous skaters have tanked a bit, and there isn't a lot of energy in the arena, but more tension, how do you relax that and allow muscle memory to take over, and let the music guide you?
     
  13. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    He should turn pro. Doesnt he tour with Stars on Ice parttime. He peaked in 2009-2010 and even then he wasnt good enough to factor in major events even when he skated very well (eg- 2010 Worlds). He is 26 now I believe, and he would be 29 by Sochi. The judges have been dropping his scores this year in a big way even when he doesnt make as many mistakes. I just dont see the point in him continuing, it is not like he is going to achieve anything better than he already has, or even duplicate his best achievements of 2009 and 2010. Of course he will do what he wants but that is my personal opinion.
     
  14. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Progress? Just one competition? He didnt even make the Grand Prix final this year in a year of horrible mens skating where Chan was dominating for awhile with 4 falls per event.
     
  15. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Wiery. You sound like Phil Hersh, judgejudy27.

    (Jeremy largely didn't make the GP Final because he was undermarked, IMHO, not because he didn't skate well on the circuit). Just because the judges (including you) have written Jeremy off, that doesn't mean he has to stop skating as an eligible competitor. If Johnny Weir had listened to officials, his career would have been over before it started.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2011
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  16. DickButtonFan

    DickButtonFan New Member

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    This has to be the craziest US nationals EVER lol
     
  17. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    Now that Ryan has a Nat'l champ- SOI/smuckers will use him instead of Jeremy. There will be no show career for Jeremy.

    I'm just wondering if he is under any obligation to Reidell, or he can change skate manufacturers.

    (but it sure wouldnt hurt him to start looking at a plan B: life after eligible skating)
    (he's mentioned he wants to stay in skating one way or another for life-so hopefully opportunities will develop)
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2011
  18. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    The only reason Weir even stayed in at that point was there was an Olympics in 2010 and he still was one of those who had a shot to fight for the 3rd spot (as he was never beating Evan or Abbott by then). If the Olympics were say in 2012 he wouldnt have stayed in.

    You admit Jeremy's stock is falling with the judges. I concur with that. So lets break this down, you are 26 years old, the next Olympics are 3 years away, your results are declining, your skating is regressing, and to top all that off you arent in favor with the judges either internationally or nationally nearly as much as you used to be. Of course you dont have to retire, but it certainly isnt foolish on my part to suggest now might be the time to do so.
     
  19. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Ahhhh, so Scott/SOI wanted to grab Ryan (not a bad pick, he's a showman who connects with audiences). Well, like I said, having "key people" behind you in the skating world is important. I do enjoy Ryan, and I'm glad for him. I thought his boogie woogie bugle boy number rocked, and he created it himself. He's 27 too, so he'll probably retire after Worlds, unless he feels he can keep injuries at bay and jump into the fray again.

    There is life after eligible skating, but making the decision and the transition isn't easy.
     
  20. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Don't disagree with your last paragraph here (except I don't feel Jeremy's skating is "regressing"). I do disagree with your other posts saying Jeremy didn't make any progress with his competition nerves, and that "it's not like he's going to achieve anything better than he already has..." Unless you have a crystal ball, or some other way of looking into the future, you don't know that. And BTW, Michelle Kwan has already proven that winning or not winning gold medals in figure skating, doesn't predict or determine what else is possible for skaters to achieve.

    Regarding Johnny (read his book), I was referring to circa 2002-2003 when he was rudely told by an official that he might as well give it up, because he was washed up and the judges would never reward him again.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2011
  21. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Did Jeremy skate a clean program this year? OK a clean short at Nationals with only a triple-double combination so it wasnt really a clean short (if you arent trying the quad you atleast need to be cleanly doing the standard 4 triples non quad men are doing). None of his long programs this season were even close to clean. So where is the progress in handling nerves? Atleast the previous 2 seasons he had some clean long programs, heck atleast 3.
     
  22. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    You rate "progress" differently perhaps. Jeremy's progress to me is in coming back at all, and with two great programs, and competing well (even though he was not given better marks). He has managed his nerves well. If he hadn't (e.g.) he would have been rattled by being delayed in starting his short program at Nationals. You can't know unless you're inside Jeremy's head, exactly what kind of progress he's made with managing his nerves in all types of competition situations.
     
  23. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Well whatever progress he is supposably making it isnt nearly enough. Fact is he failed to make the GP final, has seen himself passed internationally by guys like Amodio and a resurgent Verner, has seen guys like Chan and Takahashi pull a chasm away from him, and placed 4th at Nationals behind Bradley and 2 newcomers, failing to even make the World team. He has to step it up in a BIG way if he is going to even survive should he stay in the amateur side of the sport.
     
  24. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Your opinions, yes ... thankfully you're not the judge and jury. Making GP final is not the Holy Grail. Fact is, Jeremy has won the GP Final before. And again, you can't know what Jeremy's going to accomplish or not going to accomplish in his life.
     
  25. Yazmeen

    Yazmeen Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure I'm going to tick some people off by saying this, but with his "bring it on" attitude, I'm wondering if he thought he'd have a easy ride at Nationals. No US man was dominant throughout the Grand Prix season like Alissa was for the ladies. Jeremy got a couple of medals, so did Brandon, Adam got one but none made the final. Coming into Nationals with Evan and Johnny out, Jeremy could have easily viewed himself as the strongest skater and the likely easy National champ with possibly Adam and Brandon somewhat, but not really close. Then Bradley comes out of nowhere in the short with no pressure after Jeremy skates conservatively, and this really had to do a number on his already fragile head. Then he falls apart after a mistake, and boom, it's gone.

    I'm not an Abbott fan, but I do see the beauty in his skating when it's on. At this point, I think he needs either a sports psychologist or perhaps a willingness to do what Alissa did, not just change coaches, but really be willing to listen, bare his soul and look at things from scratch. Alissa went back to basic singles and doubles with her jumps and reworked everything to a new level of confidence, especially not falling apart after something doesn't go quite perfectly (witness her flawed but fought-through loop jump - not pretty, but she didn't give up and fall). Maybe Jeremy needs the same willingness to bare his soul, face his demons and imperfections and start anew? It wasn't too late for Alissa; perhaps it will work for him.
     
  26. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    You make some good points, Yazmeen. I don't disagree, except the "bring it on" attitude is not out of line. It's part of the whole competitive process, which is sometimes brought out of skaters by the way the media asks questions. I read this quote on Ice Network, but I didn't hear the context of Jeremy actually saying it.

    I agree that Ryan being in first after the short might have thrown Jeremy off, but his coaches (same coaches for Alissa) probably helped him deal with that. It may be what Sandra B. said -- that Jeremy may have started thinking too much after he doubled a planned triple. Paul Wylie has been a behind-the-scenes mentor for Jeremy -- not a bad role model. Alissa has had loads of help and support from many people in figure skating, including Kurt Browning, Brian Boitano, Scott Hamilton, and now her new coaches, Yuka and Jason. It's been a long up-and-down process for her. Something seems to have clicked, but largely, she's repaired her technique on jumps, calmed her nerves, and found a way to fight during programs.
     
  27. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    He actually doesn't need to peak here, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be in top condition by mid season. Given his way of falling apart after halfway point in the long I would say stamina being an issue. I'm surprised he didn't put more triples in the first half of the program to make up for it. Or at least a rest point where he can regroup and rest

    He needed to be at a condition where he can land 7 triples consistently. But according to the Detroit sendoff show's report he wasn't in that condition. (He landed 3 triples at the sendoff which sounded off an alarm bell to me.)
     
  28. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

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    I think part of the reason why Alissa had to go back to a basic level of single and double jumps was that her alignment of take offs was all out of whack. I'm not sure if that was -at least partly- due to nerves, but I remember reading reports of her practice sessions from early Nationals, where other fans mentioned the same thing -flawed technique on her take offs. Alissa's always had gorgeous basics and spins, but her jumps were a liability since she didn't have very good technique. She's reworked them to the point where they look much better. Still far from being a strong point, but no longer the huge problem they used to be. I'm sure this in turn helped her confidence, but I don't really think this was a matter of Alissa being willing to do this; rather she *had* to once she went to good technical coaches.

    Jeremy, OTOH, seems to have very good technique on his jumps, but things go haywire under pressure. And, not just with his jumps. He trips on footwork, etc. I'm not sure if he needs to go and break down technique that works just fine. A regular sports psychologist or (like other posters mentioned) taking some college courses on the side to help his perspective seem like a better idea.
     
  29. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    hasn't he always been going to a sport psychologist? (confused) If a sport psychologist can turn things around like that (snap your fingers) there will be no headcases.

    Anyway, I think this one he just needs to dig deep and figure it out himself. And it's probably not a bad life lesson, however hard one this may be.
     
  30. neptune

    neptune Well-Known Member

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    That's a fair assessment. Sandra and Scott seemed to be positively drooling over Alissa's performance last night, and while she had an excellent skate that did deserve the win, I wouldn't exactly call the jumps breathtaking. But as you said, they're definitely improved.

    That makes sense. Besides, Jeremy is allowed a so-so season. I don't think it indicates anything hugely significant. And we should probably also wait and see how he fares at 4CC.