What does Caroline Zhang need to do to work her way back up to the podium?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Yazmeen, Mar 18, 2010.

  1. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

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    You don't have to spend that much money to get into a prestigious university! My sister (who graduated from Stanford two years ago) likes to brag how my parents didn't even need to spend money on SAT prep courses. :lol: All you need is intelligence and passion. To get into elite private colleges, it's vastly preferable to be truly passionate about something but not nationally ranked, than to be really good at something but hate it. You can't fake this mindset - that's what the interviews and personal essays are for. When I find out that someone is from Stanford, I'm always like, "Oh, that makes so much sense!" because they're always like my sister in their effortless intelligence and drive. :lol:

    I think it's still a common belief (especially among Asian parents) that all you need is good stats to get into prestigious private colleges. :shuffle: Unfortunately, figure skating is not a lucrative NCAA sport so she wouldn't get any favors from their athletic departments if her academics weren't up to snuff.
  2. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    ITA. I got a Masters from Yale, grew up on welfare, and never even TOOK the SAT.
  3. tangerine_dream

    tangerine_dream New Member

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    It wouldn't be fair for me to say "YES, this is what happens".

    It's just what I and many other people think/have thought upon watching the way she practices and interacts with her mom and the rest of her team. Only Caroline knows how she feels about it.

    She sure doesn't *act* like she enjoys it is all I'm getting at. I think there are times she enjoys competition when she does well (as I've gathered from a few interviews), but who doesn't enjoy being patted on the back and told they're awesome? You have to like the every day of it for you to stand a chance. I don't think she does, and I think that is largely to blame in regards to why she has never reworked her wonky jump technique.

    But again, I'm not her and can only speak my opinions. Just something to add to the mix of the other ones present here.
  4. jjane45

    jjane45 New Member

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    From prior tweets and a few exchange of words Caroline seems to love getting on the ice, she is actually known for working herself a little too hard.
    I am more curious if there will be coaching changes any time soon...
  5. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Oh sigh. The proof is in the pudding I suppose...
  6. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    I don't get the impression Caroline doesn't want to skate. My impression is that something hindered her skating this season, and she hates skating poorly. She seems to enjoy skating well. Even if you check out the video of her exhibition at 4CC, which was her last public skate, she seemed to be enjoying herself.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuambNXJ_JM ( There is a typo in the title. )

    And she seemed genuinely happy on the podium.

    http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/oyoi...ating Championship/kgkZlfDWUdO/Caroline Zhang
  7. tangerine_dream

    tangerine_dream New Member

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    I didn't say she doesn't enjoy the "fun" part of skating such as exhibitions and being on the podium, I said I don't get the impression she enjoys the daily grind of skating training which makes for difficulties when it comes to improvements.

    I think you have to want to be there every day if you are going to improve. If someone is making you get on the ice, whether it is a parent or your coach, it's just not going to work out in the long run. My own opinion.

    With that said I think she's nice to watch, wonky jumps aside.
  8. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Latest hearsay information: Caroline is in Colorado Springs reportedly working with Tom Dickson. He choreographed her Spanish Gypsy SP a few years ago, and so this sounds like a positive development to me.
  9. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info.

    But I would feel better if there was confirmation she was working with a jump doctor, not a choreographer
  10. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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  11. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    Can you imagine the buzz on these boards if Caroline has been able to re-work her jumps in three months? :eek: That was considered impossible.
  12. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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  13. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I dont think Li is a bad coach. She coached Lu Chen for many years. I think it is possible to improve the things she needs to improve with Li if she is willing to work at them enough.
  14. loulou

    loulou Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you see how good of a coach someone is from the good kids.
    You see it from how he/she can teach to the bad ones.

    For some reason, people tend not to think about that. Instead, I find it pretty true.
  15. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    Lu Chen surely was more talented than Caroline Zhang. But who was the first coach of Lu Chen. I mean who did teach her the basic skills and the jumping technique ?
    If this first coach was Li, then she is a very good coach. Because Lu Chen had a very good jumping technique.
  16. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    If she gets rid of the mule kick AND improves her basics, I would be over the moon.
  17. clara00

    clara00 New Member

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    I love her personality,spins but so slowly skating and she has poor jump technique. I hate Caroline's kick.
    I think she need to a new coach improve her skills.
  18. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    The kick is only part of the problem. Her lack of speed, 2a, and low PCS are also things she has to fix. Plus also I don't find her spins as nice this year because she is so slow going into them that it looks awkward, the positions are amazing but they aren't particularly fast.

    Also, didn't Alissa reportedly re-work her technique a couple years ago? It doesn't really have appeared to have worked for her considering she is still so prone to falls and URs, and doesn't have a lot of speed either. Alissa didn't leave her coach during this process so I think if Caroline wants to actually fix her technique (not only kinda-sort-not really fix her technique like Alissa did) she has to leave Mingzhu Li and get a new coach who will make her work really hard the right way to fix her jumps. Maybe Artunian?
  19. loulou

    loulou Well-Known Member

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    Not necessarily, in my opinion.
    Some skaters tend to naturally deliver the correct gesture, while some others seem to struggle finding it.

    For example, I'd think Kostner never flutzed or lipped, or hit a bad position in the air, becasue she was naturally inclined to do so. Not because her first coach was a good basic teacher.

    Again in my opinion, you spot the good teacher when he/she is able to lead the kid that is naturally inclined to bad habits into developing the good ones.


    Let's pick Mishin as another example: I'd say all Mishin's pupils managed to develope elite skills and pretty sound technique. Then of course we've seen differences made by talent, work ethic and drive, but the coach was able to teach everybody. Not just the very talented ones.

    I'm often under the impression that skating nowdays is like the natural selection process: those who naturally have it proceed, those who don't get stuck. And coaches pay very little role in all that: they lead through prorper presentation, proper staff, maybe prorper conditioning, but don't seem to be really able to address technique when it's needed.
  20. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    If I were to guess her place in the current U.S pecking order I would say it is something like this:

    Nagasu
    Flatt
    Wagner
    Zawadzki
    Gao
    Czisny
    Zhang
    Baga
    Dobbs
    Gilles

    Good chance Flat and Czisny wont return though.
  21. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    The ISU judges will determine the pecking order for us at the Grand Prix. Until then, the USFSA can only guess who their best ladies are and try to keep them separate in the Grand Prix events.
  22. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Is Caroline even certain to get 2 grand prix assignments?
  23. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    With a bronze at 4cc, my guess is yes
  24. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    As I understand the rules, Caroline is guaranteed one assignment, but is almost certain to get a second.

    EDIT : Push come to shove, the same can be said for Evan.
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2010
  25. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    That's a good synopsis. But what makes you think Flatt and Czisny won't return? Both have said they are sticking it out.

    Do you think that they will retire abruptly, or they will just fade and eventually disappear [Flatt concentrating on College; Czisny just not motivated anymore] before Sochi 2014?

    Interested to know what you think will happen with Meissner....
  26. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    CURRENT pecking order, maybe you're right. I very much doubt that this pecking order will stand up through the season.
  27. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Baga isn't even at the senior level nationally yet, she'll do another season on the JGP and therefore I don't think she should be included in the pecking order with all the senior ladies. Plus she needs to work out her issues in the LP. She is a rising star with a lot of potential FOR THE FUTURE, but right now, she is a junior lady, and was beaten not only by Zawadzki but also Siraj and Davis at nationals. Siraj is amazing and one to watch, she has a lot of talent.
  28. query5

    query5 New Member

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    i am not even going to get into your u.s. pecking order of things.

    the gp assignments are usually done by top 12 worlds which get 12, the top 24 high scores and top 24 world rankings.
    the u.s. pecking might still be there for nationals but for international skating assignments --it is different--i hope.
    for saying pecking order --well it is My opinon (digusting) . world rankings (isu) are taken in consideration more. by than who knows because of all the back stage-(back stabbing-?) politics involved.
  29. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Czisny I think will continue- she's mentioned resuming training, etc. that doesn't give me the impression that she's quitting.

    Flatt I'm not sure about though. She seems to want to head over to college so I see her pulling a Hughes and slowly fading from the skating elite to do college full-time.
  30. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Is she going to resume training coachless? Also where she joined SOI as a cast member is she allowed to continue competing - now that she has "gone pro"? This is why I wonder. At any rate, no offense to Alissa, she's a lovely skater, but if USFSA has to make the choice between giving Alissa 2 GP events and giving say, Christina Gao or Agnes Zawazki 2 GP events, I seriously hope they give it to Gao or Zawadzki, they need to be looking out for the future and I just don't think Czisny is the future of US figure skating just given her age, inconsistency, and issues. She has earned at least one event fair and square and is deserving of 2 if that's what USFSA decides to give her, I just hope it's not at the expense of someone else with more promise.
  31. mysticchic

    mysticchic Well-Known Member

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    Flatt and Czisny will be back (I know Alissa is coming back for sure(
    AxelAnnie and (deleted member) like this.
  32. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Do you know who her coach is? I wonder if she will ask Yuka Sato to be her coach so she doesn't have to move. I assume she will retire fairly soon, she's probably a bit too optimistic if she thinks she can make the Olympic team in Sochi at age 26.
  33. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    ...but is it a bit too pessimistic to think she won't make the team in Sochi at age 26? :p
  34. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I guess there is a first time for everything, and Alissa does seem to do better when the pressure is off her so...who knows. For the meantime, I think she, Jeremy, Carolina, and Tomas should get together and talk about their issues with performing under pressure and figure out a strategy that works - sound good? :) Once they do that maybe then I'll be more optimistic - I actually used to be a big Alissa fan back in 05-06 when she had a breakout season, but since then, she's crushed my hopes too many times.

    I had a dream last night though that Christina Gao scored 64 for her SP and 140 for her FS at some competition and beat Mao! It was weird, but she did 3lz-3lo, 3f-3t, 2a-3t-2lo, 3a and then a bunch of other triples, it was a bit crazy. Also she had Joannie muscles.

    Maybe this is what the future brings? :lol:
  35. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    As it turned out, I doubt she (Czisny) would have made the (Vancouver) team even if she was perfect. Flatt and Nagasu really threw down the gauntlet that night. the only other skater there that was capable of beating them in her current shape was Ashley Wagner, and she blew that opportunity by falling in the SP.
  36. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    The sad thing is, …. if Rachael and Caroline were sent to Worlds last year and got back our third spot, we probably would have lost it again this year. :(
  37. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    The reality is that the US team just isn't as strong as it used to be, and it's going to take time to get it back to the pre-2007 level. Hopefully this will prompt USFS to rethink how the girls are trained in the US
  38. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    You know you have a point, especially because one of the prominent up-and-comers (Gao) trains in Canada...
  39. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    she was so promising.. =/ what happened
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2010
  40. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Puberty coupled with bad technique, and maybe an attitude problem as well. It really is too bad, I remember I loved watching her as a tiny 13 year old, throwing down those triples like they were doubles, so cute and elegant.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0J2hkcYxWo&feature=related

    I just think blue is awesome! :lol:

    At least Mirai is still really promising, and Caroline may have a comeback.