What does Caroline Zhang need to do to work her way back up to the podium?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Yazmeen, Mar 18, 2010.

  1. michiruwater

    michiruwater Well-Known Member

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    Aside from last season, which was extremely poor for her, Caroline's scores at Nationals were always much lower in comparison to her scores from Internationals. It was very strange because it never seems to happen that way.
     
  2. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Well she was in 2007, and the commentators certainly love her, but yeah, she does seem to get dinged in the SP at nationals year after year. Her 112 and 118 LP scores at 09 and 08 nationals were comparable to what she had been getting internationally those years though.
     
  3. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    ^Yeah but when the rest of the field is getting score inflation, what Caroline is getting at nationals is score DEFLATION.

    One other problem is that Caroline has never peaked at Nationals. She always seems to make a mistake that becomes her undoing at Nationals which would not happen at other competitions. For example last year, Caroline stepped out of her double axel in short at Nationals while at Four Continents and at WTT she skated clean programs.
     
  4. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    True. I feel like Caroline doesn't skate as well in America, kind of like how Miki doesn't skate well in Japan. I feel like Caroline usually does best around the time of 4CC and Junior Worlds, meaning she peaks later in the season. Apart from the 07 GP season, Caroline has never done great at her GP events, then has mistakes at nationals, then goes on to do well at 4CC and/or Junior Worlds.
     
  5. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    Her worst mistake was at the 2008 Nationals short when she apparently phased into hyper-space for one of her elements. The judges didn't see it, gave her no credit, and knocked her out of the final free skate group. To be fair, the judges tried to correct their mistake and added points to her score. Then someone reminded them that points couldn't be added, even if it was their mistake, and the points were taken away.

    We couldn't figure out why her short program score got changed up, then back down again.
     
  6. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Is Caroline still in Colorado?
     
  7. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    No, her worst mistake in 2008 was underrotating her 3/3 and falling out of the second jump.

    In 2009, aside from stepping out of her 2A, she also didn't complete enough revs in one of her layback positions to get a Level 4 on that element.
     
  8. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    No.
     
  9. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    World title 2007 ;)
     
  10. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    In 2008, she stepped out of her 3-3, but she did not fall out.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_OGaZ8qNXU
     
  11. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    I consider that lunging forward a fall out, but it doesn't really matter, as it certainly didn't help either gain points either way.
     
  12. key65man

    key65man New Member

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    I am not particularly big on the traditional aesthetic of figure skating based on flexibility. But, I appreciate someone special like Sasha and Caroline. I just hope that Caroline is able to address her jump issues and do some triples in a way that is no longer aesthetically displeasing. I would be happy with that at the moment even if she were not to manage a podium finish at Worlds or at the Olympics (though it would be icing on the cake).
     
  13. MOIJTO

    MOIJTO Banned Member

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    282 posts and still growing! What is wrong with you people?

    Stick a fork in her she's cooked!
     
  14. Stormy

    Stormy Well-Known Member

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    Wow, yet another helpful and insightful post. :rolleyes:
     
  15. key65man

    key65man New Member

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    There may be more to figure skating. Well, unless we limit it to competitions and their results.
     
  16. Doubletoe

    Doubletoe Well-Known Member

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    A few people said they thought Caroline would do worse under the new 2011 rules. Am I missing something? The way I see it, she could gain an advantage from the rule changes:

    1. Each spin variation will now count only once: From what I've seen, Caroline can do every spin variation in existence, so she'll just use different ones for each spin and continue to get high levels while other skaters run out of variations.

    2. Jumps underrotated by 1/4-1/2 turn now get 70% credit: Before she started obsessing over underrotations, Caroline's 3F+3T was extremely consistent. She can bring it back now and get a few extra points from it, even if the 3T gets a <.

    3. No more levels on the SpSq: Now the other ladies can't get the same level as Caroline with their inferior positions. It's all about GOE, and the GOE are based on factors such as extension, flexibility and originality, areas in which Caroline's SpSq excels (OK, so speed counts, too, but she can make up for that with the originality and extension, just like Sasha Cohen).

    4. Only two 2A's allowed: This will hurt the skaters who can't do all of the triples, but Caroline has the full arsenal of triples (even if she does flutz her lutz).
     
  17. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I meant at Japanese NATIONALS. And so Caroline is back in SoCal, is she still with Mingzhu Li? I would have thought she would have left her by now...
     
  18. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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  19. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    Thanks for the link.

    Could it be that she is talking about the mule kick?

     
  20. feraina

    feraina Active Member

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  21. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    My guess is that the interview was done before Caroline went to Colorado.
     
  22. shiningstar

    shiningstar New Member

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    Sounds like the same old story we've been hearing over the past season! Until she gets a new coach, I don't see Caroline improving technically.
     
  23. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Unless she takes a cue from some of the promising juniors who are capable of getting better SP scores at junior competitions than Caroline' been getting at senior competitions, despite iffy jump technique.

    Exhibit A:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3ui8nMK948 (mule kick)

    Exhibit B:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s-c5Jw6MuE (overall odd technique)

    Exhibit C:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyju92SKiSk (2a issues and scary salchow take-off)

    And yet all programs scored nearly 60 points. Clearly, these little girls know something Caroline doesn't....
     
  24. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    All of those girls have so much better basics than Caroline, though. And they all skate faster.
     
  25. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Basics yes, though I've heard many people say both Ovcharova and Baga skate rather slowly.
     
  26. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    Who are these "many people"?
     
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  27. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to know, too. Having seen Baga skate in person on a number of different occasions, I assure you, pinky, that her speed is just fine.
     
  28. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    The many people are mainly posters on various forums, most of whom have probably not seen either girl live BUT I did see Kiri at nationals last year and she wasn't that fast, but she is also very little so for her size her speed likely is fine.

    Ovcharova has legs that go on for days though and she at least doesn't appear fast (though clearly she is faster than Zhang), but at least she has mastered the 2a and even gets decent flow out of it. Still, she got a big score for her SP at junior worlds despite her strange jumps and apparent lack of speed and she's the same height as Zhang already.
     
  29. shiningstar

    shiningstar New Member

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    I'm no great judge of technique but it seems to me that all of those girls have much better technique than Caroline does.

    Caroline needs a firm coach who is willing to completely rework her jump technique and Caroline needs to be willing to work hard. She needs to be ready to have a year of crappy results while working on her technique. Let's face it, what's the point of fixing your jump technique if you're getting good results already?! I hope Caroline is willing to put the work in, because I think she has potential!
     
  30. Autumn_girl

    Autumn_girl Active Member

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    These girls are only juniors. When Caroline was a junior, her scores were even higher. And if they will not fix their technique, it will hurt them in seniors just like it happend with Caroline. BUT they all have better basics, skate faster and have problems only with some of their jumps, not with all jumps.
     
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