What can Savchenko & Szolkowy do to get Olympic Gold ?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by PashaFan, Nov 27, 2013.

  1. Jessiebanana

    Jessiebanana Well-Known Member

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    I'm not going to pretend that I remember every program accurately, I definitely have a more fond rose colored glasses thing going on, but I do remember their Worlds 2011 Pink Panther LP was clean.
  2. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Savchenko/Szolkowy were very good at 2011 Worlds. I think they had one real mistake in 2009 but it's been a while so I could be wrong.

    Winning competitions with two flawless skates is not something most skaters manage regularly, even good ones. V/T were not flawless in winning Worlds, BTW, and I don't believe they were completely clean in their Euros wins, either.

    Anyway, I think the issue many people have with V/T is the scoring - especially PCS - rather than the absolute placements.
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013
  3. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

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    This!

    I think that fans are more impressed with the idea of Pina and even that this team brought something that was not well known into skating spotlight. The choreography was blah and the music cuts were not impressive as you mentioned. To me, from an expression standpoint, this program highlighted Aliona's lack of facial expression. Anyway...back to the thread...
  4. Jessiebanana

    Jessiebanana Well-Known Member

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    Yeah they did really well that year. Their 2009 Worlds SP was done really well, it was definitely colorful and odd, but it made sense why people had them pegged for Gold in 2010. It's a bit sad it didn't go that way and she was ill. That's life. We all have fave skaters who were never Olympic champions.
  5. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    You said it better than I could. They should keep the focus on being the unique pair that they are, do something that is unique to THEM.
  6. KimGOAT

    KimGOAT Active Member

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    They have to skate clean and hope for V&T to make mistakes. Considering S&S are very likely to make mistakes, and V&T likely to make none, both of the reverse happening in sync is extremely unlikely.
  7. Nours

    Nours Active Member

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    If I remember well, 2011 Worlds in Russia. They also produced several clean LP performances.
  8. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    I do recall at the last GPF more than a few people said they should have got the silver and B/L should have won the gold.

    V/T have only been competing together for less than three years, they don't exactly S/Z's legacy in regards to competing with some of the best pairs skaters in the world like Sale & Pelletier, Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze and Totmianina & Marinin. With only around 20 competitions under their belts (and some are too small to count) how much controversy can there be.

    S/S don't have a chance of winning gold unless V/T bomb severely and S/S are perfect, 3ATh and all. I doubt that will happen. Unless V/T get hurt or DQed, they will win gold. S/S needs to do the best they can and win the silver. I would hate to have them bomb and have someone else push them to 3rd or God forbid 4th.
  9. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Given that most people seem to think B&L are one of the most overrated pairs today and gripe constantly about their scores, I highly doubt that.
  10. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    And I'm certainly one of them; but on that day I can see why some would have thought that V/T's competition win was controversial. No matter who the team is anyone can have a good day and great ones can have a bad one.

    http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/sho...n-Till-The-End-Of-Time!-Levels-Going-Up-Up-Up Page 5 or 6

    If V/T perform as badly as they did at Worlds in 2012 and only get 131 in the free like they did at the GPF last year, they can be beaten, by a few teams.
  11. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    For sure which just means if V&T dont deserve the Olympic Gold, they wont win it. If they skate like they have in every competition this year they do deserve the OGM though.
  12. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I watched it after some here gave an impression that it was some sort of artistic masterpiece, but it just showed me the attributes that annoyed me about this pair when they first came out. Yes, the choreography can be complex. However, I always felt this pair always over-complicated their routines to the point where many of the moves are incongruent with the interpretation or music. Also, their facial expressions and interpretation leave a lot to be desired, IMO. They just aren't convincing to me as interpreters of music (which is why Out of Africa rang so false with me). I also think they're pretty messy and unclean with their choreographed moves that I find it distracting (like the way Aliona was picked up by a kneeling Robin in Pina…she stumbled exiting that move and instead of a seamless transition, it was just distracting).

    I also found it baffling when S/S's lack of consistency was constantly excused (their routines are so difficult that of course they're going to mess up a few times as opposed to thinking that maybe if they can't handle their programs then they should hone back on the choreography to a level that they can handle then move up from there). I think it just brings me back to the arbitrary "transitions are everything type of doctrine" that was so popular here for a few seasons…even at the expense of other qualities. Of course, now that their choreography seems to have simplified a bit (still not simple), they still haven't gotten any consistency. Of course, the focus of the throw 3 Axel can be blamed for that.

    This team has a lot of brilliant qualities, and I understand why people prefer them over generic and artistically-uninspired V/T. However, I find S/S to be one of the most overrated pairs in modern times, and Pina being a very overrated program. That said, with the dearth of interesting pairs since COP was implemented, I will say I rather have pairs follow in the footsteps of S/S who seems to try to bring something of a signature and advancement to the discipline artistically.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2013
  13. Knigolubka

    Knigolubka New Member

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    +1 They starting winning over S/S, when they started deserving it.

  14. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    I think your post is extremely patronising to those of us who have noted why Pina was such a good programme chroepgraphically speaking.

    Just because you have a different opinion doesn't make it better or more correct than anyone else's.
    loulou and (deleted member) like this.
  15. PashaFan

    PashaFan Active Member

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    S&S were amazing at the 2011 Worlds, they did not miss anything. If they skate like that in Sochi I still believe it will be difficult to get the Gold. The judges have kind of dumped them since V/T have come along.
    V/T started their season early in fantastic form. S&S are more interesting for me. They always do something a little different with their choreography.
    I don't think they were gifted their World titles in 2008 & 2009. The Zhangs had very bland choreography & made errors too. 2012 was tight but V/T lost the title with a very poor SP.
    V/T had a few big errors in last seasons GPF but still won.
    I really hope S/S can improve their form for the GPF.
  16. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    They definitely deserved their 2009 title, but in 2008 I would have had the Zhangs and Dube & Davison both beating them. So would the EuroSport team who were flabergasted with the result.
  17. PashaFan

    PashaFan Active Member

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    I remember that. D/D were the best in the free. But I felt that the Zhangs were quite bland in their free skate. But stunning in the short program.
  18. Dolore

    Dolore New Member

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    I can't recall all the performances now so I can't comment on that but the Eurosport commentators are - as entertaining and pleasant to listen to as they are - not always very reliable. Especially when it comes to the technical content they often put their foot in their mouth. Nicky Slater mostly provides fashion commentary and ignores the technical aspects aside from jumps.
  19. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Oh they were definitely bland but still should have scored atleast equal to S&S`s hot mess of a performance with glaring errors, and as they were ahead in the short they would have then beaten them. D&D deserved to beat S&S by atleast 5 points in the LP IMO, again enough to beat them overall. Over the 2 programs they had 5 significant errors:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcF0pTUfOLQ
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAxTbMwnf6o

    An overrotated and step out of the triple toe by her in the short (still was very good otherwise and definitely deserved 2nd in that phase), an overrotated and step out of the triple toe by him in the long, him falling on the triple salchow attempt, she stumbling and putting hands down on hers (atleast 1 of them looked underrotated too), spins badly out of sync. In this case I think their reaction was justified and very technical based. It is like it was some magificient program either. One lo long hum of music all the way, a bit boring frankly. Still good enough to win overall had they skated it fairly cleanly or with less substantial errors but with that performance, no way.


    Still not anywhere in the league of about 15 of Chan`s ridiculous wins or anything. However I doubt V&T will ever have a World or Olympic win as controversial as that either.
  20. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    S&S need more political support ;)
  21. PashaFan

    PashaFan Active Member

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    If you can find a judge to bribe we can all make a donation !.
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  22. loulou

    loulou Well-Known Member

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    Ha! That's adds new content to the expression fan support.
  23. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    They need Volosozhar and Morozov to get back together so that Trankov gets jealous and has a diva moment and refuses to train.
  24. Finnice

    Finnice Well-Known Member

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    Quite a soap opera plot turn!:rofl:
    I have not seen either V/T´s or S/S´s this season´s programs live. One of the judges in NHK Trophy I spoke wit said that V/T live are simply breathtaking. Looking forward to see both of them in a few days in Japan.
  25. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    Actually, Nikolai Morozov should seduce Tatiana ruining that partnership and then in a jealous rage, Elena and Nikita will train their butts off with Shpilband until Sochi! :p
  26. Finnice

    Finnice Well-Known Member

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    I think we got the answer today. Skate clean and with higher base value than V/T. The 3t 3t seq is one key.
  27. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    And have V/T make two major jump errors.
  28. Karpenko

    Karpenko Well-Known Member

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    They just need to keep it up. They don't need a 3axel, they need to push the positions and finishing touches now to the limit. Go after 10s in every component, especially transitions. They are one of the only teams capable in the world of deserving a 10 in transitions too, but they'd need to re-work some things. They are right there, it's nice to see a real battle heating up. The LP in particular needs to be more in synch with the music and pushed a bit more emotionally, it's too literal and not enough of the emotion and tension in the music yet IMO. A huge step up in both programs IMO and they definitely won't settle for silver. Personally if them winning the OGM means we get another 4 years of Volosozhar/Trankov, then well.. I'm all for it:shuffle: I do not want to lose both S/S and V/T.

    However I do think they completely deserve it on their own merit, they've done every program possible and then some and always seem to fight like tigers when people count them out. I'm going to miss them when they're gone, they've been nothing but a breath of fresh air since that voidy SP they debuted back in 05-06. :respec:
  29. PashaFan

    PashaFan Active Member

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    So happy for Aliona & Robin but kinda sad that it was still so close. V/T made to major errors & still were in touching distance.
    But let's hope Aliona & Robin can get better & better from here. I still believe they can win in Sochi........................maybe.
  30. sequins

    sequins New Member

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    Thrilled for S/S today. That's the team I know and love.

    Funny I feel the same way Karpenko. That maybe if V/T don't win they'll stick around. It's selfish but I don't wanna lose them both either.

    To your last sentence I agree 100%. They have been one of the greatest, they have done it all,tried it all, never shyed away from anything. They have done the outrageous, the complex, the dramatic, the beautiful, the heart-wrenching and I've loved every minute of it! They are one of a kind and I will miss them tremendously when they retire, the will leave a big hole no doubt, but this sport, and pairs in general is better and stronger for having had them around. I just feel so lucky we got to have them for so long, yet it's gone by, like everything, much too fast.
  31. nuge

    nuge Well-Known Member

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    They need to skate like today ! They have more chemistry to me than V/T but I'm an ice dance fan so what do I know :D
    I enjoyed S/S more .V/T only comes alive in the last twenty seconds at the music change.
  32. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    In fairness, I think it might actually be physically impossible to not have chemistry with Robin Szolkowy - few partners seem as generous yet still a "leading man" in the partnership.
  33. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Today shows all the silliness of the talk about the judging all along. V&T were winning every event since they deserved to, and S&S won today just as they deserved to with their wonderful competiion. Whoever skates best will win in Sochi once again.

    I do wonder if V&T dont win in Sochi (which I still think they will) if they would stay another 4 years. I would hate the pairs field to lose all of S&S, V&T, and P&T in one fell swoop. It would become almost unwatchable.
  34. liv

    liv Well-Known Member

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    I think that is my favourite S/S program ever. I confess I've never liked their other programs very much (except for the Frida? program), but this one makes clear their high quality. I have often thought they won titles because of a lack of strong competition (until V/T came along) but with this program, and particularly their performance today, I can see their strength. And you can never say they didn't give it their all... a clean throw at the very end of their programs is what I call brave and gutsy and they are definitely that.
  35. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

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    That was beautiful! sooooooooo happy for them! hope is still alive.
    S&S are right up there with G&G as my all-time favourite pairs team and I want that OGM for them so badly. I love V&T too, and think they are equally as deserving, but since there can likely only be one winning pair, my heart is pulling for Aliona and Robin.
    Even though their programs transition-wise this year aren't as difficult as in past years, they still lead the field there, imo, and should get credit for that. I hope this victory and beautiful skate gives them a boost. This is going to be an epic battle for the Olympic title and I feel privileged to watch.
  36. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

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    :lol:
  37. MissJD

    MissJD Active Member

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    I kept looking for a thread to gush about how happy I was for them at this comp!! Not just because they won, but because they were clean! Those 3ATh were killing me. And that long set up for it really took away from the short for me. I think their short this weekend was magnificent and breathtaking! And they were so thrilled afterwards! This was the first time this season I've liked them over V/T. I think they're really starting to click with these programs. :cheer: (I will complain that Robin's shirt was less see-through and his pants were less tight, booo ;) )

    Side note: Mozer did an interview (translated somewhere in GSD) where she said V/T will stay in as long as their bodies will let them. That they feel they're just hitting their prime and aren't ready to quit. :D
  38. Jessiebanana

    Jessiebanana Well-Known Member

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    I would love to believe that, but the reality is V/T made huge errors that couldn't be swept under the rug of "gray area". I think if they skate close V/T would win. With that said P/B got Bronze in dance, so perhaps someone is cracking with whip on all the Russianflation or they're lulling us into a false sense of security.

    Like I said V/T deserved all their wins, but it doesn't mean there is a huge judging bias this Olympic season. V/T have been pretty consistent, so you can't expect them to make huge errors again, unless they don't do as well under pressure.
  39. Jessiebanana

    Jessiebanana Well-Known Member

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    I almost fell out of my bed this morning, I was so excited :biggrinbo!!!

    I don't know how reflective this GPF was of Olympic possibilities, but I'm happy they're back in the game. I'm sad about the throw triple axel. I really wanted them to do it. I would have been a great thing for them to be remembered by, but I'm happy to see their super huge gravity defying throws back and polished. You can tell how much effort they were really putting into it, because all their other elements look so much better now that they've stopped.
  40. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    I am so happy for them. They skated so perfectly clean. I hope they can repeat this in Sochi!

    They looked so thrilled during the medal ceremony.
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