What can Savchenko & Szolkowy do to get Olympic Gold ?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by PashaFan, Nov 27, 2013.

  1. PashaFan

    PashaFan Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2010
    Messages:
    664
    I've loved these two since first watching them at the ARD Gala On Ice in 2003. They are the artists of Pairs skating.
    But since Tatiana & Maxim have teamed up they have lost more & more ground on the pair from Russia.
    Why ?.
    Are they putting too much into landing the throw triple axel ?. After COR it looks like they may have to stop trying that.
    I have to say the I enjoy watching both teams but love the Germans more.
    It would be heartbreaking for them to lose another Olypic Gold after 2010 when they lost form when the Chinese returned. And now they have to go up against the top pair from Russia at an Olympics in Russia.
    Do they really stand any chance ?, or will they battle the Chinese & Canadians for Silver ?.
    They could end up being the Kwan of Pairs skating. 4 European titles & 4 World titles but no Olympic Gold.
    What can they do to get their levels up & get the judges back on side ?.
  2. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,592
    Be perfect.

    Pray.
    Dr.Siouxs and (deleted member) like this.
  3. umronnie

    umronnie Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    828
    Whack Trankov's knee
    jamesy and (deleted member) like this.
  4. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    3,253
    Go back to their Pina LP and land the 3ATh?
  5. senorita

    senorita New Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,945
    ^Sigh.. we never saw live the Pina program :(
  6. shah

    shah Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2006
    Messages:
    2,576
    Skate clean? I mean the sbs jumps, because the throw Axel is another story...
  7. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    3,253
    I know I was gutted. Still I got to stare at Robin for the whole pairs SP :grope: so every cloud has a silver lining :rofl:
  8. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    At this point, they need to work really hard in order to secure silver. Gold is out of reach unless they nail it and V/T bomb and the probability of both of these things happening is probably 0.01% or so. Although who knows. V/T have been incredible so far this season but then Trankov has always been consistent but look what happened in Vancouver. Everybody was expecting Mukhortova to mess up but it was him missing the sbs jump in SP (which he normally never did).

    Going back to th3f in SP and th3s in FS would probably be sensible but they might as well try to go out with a bang (I just hope Savchenko doesn't get hurt :/).

    Damnit, I came here just to post that but you were first. :revenge: ;)
  9. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2009
    Messages:
    693
    Duplicate post
  10. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2009
    Messages:
    693
    Ditch that damn Axel pipe dream and skate cleanly and perfectly. Their choreography IMO is far stronger than the Russians. The program is cohesive and relevant to the music. The Germans have the ability to interpret music beautifully. The Germans also have the ability to do very strong elements (Robin... stop messing up 3toe please). I do have to say that I am loving seeing Aliona's spirals return. The Germans used to have better connecting moves and transitions. BRING THEM BACK

    Totally Unrelated:Their 2006 SP at the olympics was one of my favorites of theirs. It was when i became aware of their talent.
  11. clairecloutier

    clairecloutier Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2013
    Messages:
    708
    Who do you see as a threat to win silver over Savchenko/Szolkowy? They've already beaten Pang/Tong, Bazarova/Larionov, and Moore-Towers/Moscovitch. The only other contender would be Duhamel/Radford, and they're not looking so good this season. I'm not saying it's impossible another team could beat S/S for silver. But I do expect them to win at least silver if they stay on their feet in Sochi and skate with energy.

    As to gold, honestly I don't know if they can do it, the way Volosozhar/Trankov are skating and being scored. But I still hope for them to win. It will take a perfect performance, obviously, no mistakes. I don't think they should attempt the throw 3 Axel, it's just not consistent enough. I feel they can't afford a huge mistake/fall, and it's too possible for that to happen on the throw 3 Axel. What's great about S/S isn't the throw 3 Axel, but just the quality and beauty of their pairs skating. Focus on that.
  12. mia joy

    mia joy New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,124
    Honestly, nothing. Unless there is a total disaster, V/T will be given the gold. Even if S/S are clean, even if they somehow hit that 3a, as long as V/T are clean too, the OGM is theirs. Even if everybody hits, noone will come close to V/T. They represent Russia and that's beyond anything other teams can do.

    However, to be frank the possibility of Aliona and Robin being clean is very small at the moment and V/T are always clean these days. Thus, that gold will probably be deserved even without Russia's politicking.

    Nevertheless, I wish that fight for gold would be fair, which it won't. I really feel for Aliona and Robin, they've been chasing that OGM dream for a long time now. But they will surely be remembered as all time greats, which I am not sure will be the case with V/T. V/T will most probably be remebered as those who wasted their talent on mediocre programs.

    And I don't think S/S will ditch that axel. It would be wise to ditch in the SP, to make sure nobody gets hurt enough not to be able to perform the FS, but they will keep one axel for sure. They will go down fighting, that I am sure of.
  13. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2004
    Messages:
    9,815
    Skate clean and hope that Trankov has at least 2 brain farts in their SP.
  14. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,959
    Yes, that would be very very sad, but true.
  15. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    3,253
    I dont think the 3A in the short is a pay off worth making at this stage. I'm certain if they landed it the judges would give it positive GOEs, however, they have never landed it clean in competition so at this point in time it's not worth it - the 3FTh worth +2GOE which they regularly get is worth the base value of the 3A so they'd be better off doing that.

    If they insist on trying the 3A I'd be minded to move it to the start of the programme, get it out on fresh legs, and if it fails they can just focus on the programme and go all out - leaving it to the end seems to be sucking the energy out of the LP and they'd be better to finish with the 3F which seems to be very consistent.
  16. PashaFan

    PashaFan Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2010
    Messages:
    664
    I agree that they really do need to give up the triple axel. It hurts her so much. Is it worth the risk ?. For me, no.
  17. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    13,324
    Ditch the 3axel which they never do cleanly anyway, focus on skating cleanly, and hope V&T have their worst skate of the season by far. They are right back where they were in 2010 where they needed another team (S&Z in 2010) to falter to hope to win.
  18. Finnice

    Finnice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2004
    Messages:
    4,987
    This discussion makes me sad. Talk about the impossible dream.
    Still, it is figure skating. I hope that everyone stays injure-free and nobody will get whacked plus that judging will be honest. And that Savchenko and Szolkowy will fight fiercely for the gold, even though it seems to be hard.
    Going back to Pina could be one alternative.
    loulou and (deleted member) like this.
  19. Jessiebanana

    Jessiebanana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,476
    They can't. I love them (and their LP) and even if they improved their side by side and did everything perfect, V/T are locked for Gold. V/T would have to completely bomb. The Olympics is in Russia and they've made it pretty clear that anyone who is a reasonable candidate for a medal, will win it...and some not so reasonable, though this doesn't apply to V/T.
  20. museksk8r

    museksk8r Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2008
    Messages:
    3,270
    I know Tranky could give terrific "WHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYY!!!" face. :swoon:

    In all seriousness though, the Olympics are a freakin' mental minefield and has been the famed undoing of many a magnificent figure skating champion. I never think any skater is a "lock" for Olympic gold or any medal for that matter. It is unlike any other figure skating competition and many skaters lose their way in the magnitude of it all. They just have to focus on themselves, stay as healthy as possible, take one element at a time, and skate their personal bests as cleanly as possible. They need to focus on quality foremost and quantity secondly.
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2013
  21. succubus

    succubus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,160
    Buy tight yellow pants.
  22. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    9,257
    Indeed :)

    I think they should focus on skating cool programs that showcase their unique personalities, stick with the 3flip, ditch the 3A unless they want to be permanently injured, bring back Pina and ENJOY this last year of eligible competition, rather than going for the "desperate for gold" approach. If this whole year is awful and they don't win gold, what do they have? If they enjoy this year and can get some clean (or cleaner) performances of a great program or programs, and they don't win gold in Sochi, at least they will have enjoyed the season.
  23. Jessiebanana

    Jessiebanana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,476
    That's a very nice way to look at it and I want to be optimistic, but I don't want to be sad. I sort of feel this way about Weaver and Poje, because I know they can perform a medal winning program and I'm having a hard time accepting they won't get the scores, so yeah...hope.
  24. apatinar

    apatinar New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    633
    I don't know what people saw in the Pina program. To me that was one of the most disjointed cuts of music and choreography that I have ever seen from any pairs team in decades..
    S&S needs to skate this current program clean as a whistle and hope for 2 mistakes from the Russians... one mistake from the Russians still won't do it..
  25. Louis

    Louis Tinami 2012

    Joined:
    May 10, 2001
    Messages:
    11,460
    I hate to say it because (1) I don't agree with the judges and (2) it makes me depressed, but I think they need the throw triple axel and probably the throw quad flip, too, in order to win gold. Of course, their odds of injury or total disaster are higher than their odds of gold if they tried that strategy.

    I think others are right that they should just try to skate a clean program knowing their best is 98% likely to max out at a silver medal. :(
  26. ballettmaus

    ballettmaus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2004
    Messages:
    1,678
    I adore them but when was the last time they skated two clean programs? Without any glitches (no step out, no doubled or singled jumps etc). We don't know what marks they would get if both SP and LP of the current season were skated cleanly, do we? Maybe that would even be enough?!
  27. Jessiebanana

    Jessiebanana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,476
    I think it's just hard to be a fan when your team is on the decline. They have so much quality to their skating, but their bodies are giving out and it's a struggle for them to perform two clean programs, especially Robin. I don't believe it's for lack of effort though. I like that they seem really positive after they skate. I think they have a realistic perspective on what they can achieve and have accepted it. It would be sad if they felt defeated.
  28. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,556
    They can give Jeff Gillooly, excuse me, Jeff Stone, a call.
  29. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    It had a lot of transitions and was skated to the music.
  30. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    4,236
    I admire S/S, but have to admit I'm enjoying V/T's programs more this season.
  31. loulou

    loulou Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    1,735

    Indeed, this is so sad - expecially because the above is true, or at least percieved as such by too many (including me).


    S/S are an incredible pair. Thanks to that, in my opinion there is one thing they could do to win gold: forget about anything else (the scores, the critiques, the judges, the odds, the outcome) and just focus on being the best possible skaters they can be.
    Too much effort, too much worrying about what's out of their control (like the possible bias towards Russian skaters, expecially Pairs since it's the strongest Russian event), the anticipation of a lost gold, all of that can get them under the weather and make them skate worse than they could.
    But if they thrive, if they focus solely on being the amazing skaters they are capable of being, they can wow the world, anf put the Russian bias in a difficult spot. Put pressure and V/T too, and make them handle it instead of letting V/T forcing pressure on competitors.

    In my opinion S/S have to think about their job, fly high, dream big; if that shows it could work a miracle.

    What worries me the most, isn't even that dangerous 3A, but the fact I'm seeing them less confident and less happy than thier talent and work should make them.
  32. clairecloutier

    clairecloutier Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2013
    Messages:
    708

    Great comments, I totally agree! If S/S can skate with energy and emotion and just really believe in themselves, it would be wonderful, and could have some surprising results.
    loulou and (deleted member) like this.
  33. kosjenka

    kosjenka Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2003
    Messages:
    2,507
    My only dream gold Olympic medal is Savchenko & Szolkowy.
    I am sad to see my dream will probably not come true...
    loulou and (deleted member) like this.
  34. rfisher

    rfisher Satisfied skating fan

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2005
    Messages:
    40,315
    I like S/S a lot, but it annoys me to read about Russian bias implying that V/T won't deserve gold if they win. They have been flawless so far this season and S/S haven't been close to flawless. If S/S want to be competitive, they need to be flawless as well. They haven't been for two years and I don't mean the 3A. I don't think that's bias. If V/T were falling all over the place and their twist was crashy, maybe there would be an argument for bias, but that flat out hasn't been the situation. And, whining about transitions is nonsense and just the viewers perspective. A "transition" that slows down the program, or is poorly executed does not trump a well executed element. And none of the judges mark them thusly. And, it doesn't matter what a skater or team did two years ago. They're being scored on what they do now. If S/S want gold, they have to skate like a gold medal winner. They didn't at Worlds last year and they haven't at the GP relative to their top competitor. We'll see how they match up at the GPF and Europeans (assuming V/T go). But, the whining about V/T is misplaced in a discussion about S/S. They are their own team and have to skate for themselves. When you have to count on another team making a mistake to win, you're in deep trouble.

    And the judges don't care that Maxim is wearing yellow pants or skating to JCS. Lord knows S/S have had some, shall we say, unusual costumes over the years. :lol:
    Finnice and (deleted member) like this.
  35. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    13,324

    I like S&S too but reality is they are the ones with a list of controversial wins and results in their career, not V&T. In fact I dont believe V&T have ever had a controversial win or medal ever. S&S have had 2008 Worlds, 2011 Europeans, their silver at Worlds last year, just for starters. Also the only two close decisions between the two pairs which could have gone either way both went to S&S (2011 GPF, 2012 Worlds).
  36. kosjenka

    kosjenka Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2003
    Messages:
    2,507
    I think V&T are very smooth and consistent. I just find their LP in particular boring and bleh....

    Savchenko & Szolkowy made me love pairs again.
  37. loulou

    loulou Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    1,735
    I don't think comments are implying that. But some people say that, unless V/T implode, they will win gold no matter how good or clean S/S go (if they do). One would also think that kind of perception would affect both V/T and S/S, in different ways.

    While the above would be ugly, if the best pair on ice wins I think everyone will be fine with that. Some might be sorry their favourite couldn't step up, but still fine with the result (being a huge Cohen's fan, I oughta know).


    I don't even know if I'll keep watching the Pair event after they'll be retired. My other favourite couple used to represent Japan, and we all know how that went.
  38. rfisher

    rfisher Satisfied skating fan

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2005
    Messages:
    40,315
    All I know is I will be thrilled for one team and heartbroken for the other no matter how things shake out. I don't think V/T think they'll win gold no matter how S/S skate. They've honed their skills to the best of their ability so they can earn gold. Both teams are about as equal in skills as any two teams can be, especially, Tatiana and Aliona. I fully believe gold and silver will be determined by Robin and Maxim.
    PeterG and (deleted member) like this.
  39. Jessiebanana

    Jessiebanana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,476
    I'm not saying V/T don't deserve it. They certainly are skating the best. This isn't like in ice dance. We're simply saying that even if they skated clean and put on a great performance they wouldn't win. We bring this up, not to hate on V/T, but because the OP asked what can S/S do. The answer is nothing.

    Pairs is such a weak field, that S/Ss experience and overall technical ability will probably hold them at Silver, even though they aren't performing to their full potential.
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013
  40. ballettmaus

    ballettmaus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2004
    Messages:
    1,678
    Maybe I focus too much on the negative but was their a major title that they won with two flawless skates? So are they really on a decline or have they now just tough competition in V/T that they didn't have a few years ago? Are V/T maybe just better because they're consistent?
    That said, I really do want to see S/S win gold at the Olympics. I'm biased anyway, being German, however, I think they deserve it. They have so many great qualities to their skating and I could watch them skate for hours and hours and wouldn't care if they jumped or not because, for me, they don't need the jumps to be great.