Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by lowtherlore, Sep 1, 2010.
Did you ever see Orser skate? His technique was amazing. Heck, there is even footage of him practicing quads on Youtube.
Plus, he is famously known as "Mr. Triple Axel" because he was the first skater in history to routinely and consistently perform the jump in competition. He was the first skater in history to ever land the 3Axel at the Olympics in 1984. If not for compulsories, he would have defeated Scott Hamilton at both the 1984 Olympics and Worlds. He became the first skater at the World Championships to land two triple axels in the free skate and three in the same competition in 1987.
That is exactly what TT said she did. No contracts, and her earnings go up according to her students' earnings. If that's not a percentage of earnings deal, then what is it? She also said she doesn't charge by the hour, so I think more elite coaches take this approach than the general public is aware of.
then I bet she has some sort of base retainer.
lowtherlore seems to be asking (doubting) if Orser was (or will be) a good technical coach, but you two are simply saying he's a good jumper. What an irrelevant answer.. good jumper doesn't automatically mean good coach.
Oh please that's a bit of a stretch. Orser was way more than just a good jumper. As for his coaching skills, everything his top level skaters have put out on the ice since going to Orser would suggest he's got a pretty good idea what he's teaching and how to get the message across.
lowtherlore doesn't care whether Orser is a good technical coach, it was an irrelevant question. This thread was started for one reason and one reason only.
Moskvina had this arrangement with her pairs, and I'm sure I read that the same was true for Plushenko and Mishin. Mishin received a salary to coach. I'm not sure if Moskvina did when she was in the US.
I think the poster was trying to say that Orser is famous for his technical prowess, and as a coach he's very good at polishing his skater's technical abilities. I believe it was one of the reasons why Ms. Kim originally sought him out to be her coach.
I remember watching Brian Orser's LP at the 84 Olys. I was amazed with his technical and artistic ability. His jumps, spins, and footwork were of impeccable quality. I actually freaked when he landed his triple axels. It just seemed to be so natural with Brian. I just wish I had a VCR back then to tape it.
I was thrilled, however, to find his unforgettable LP on YouTube.
There is no doubt that his coaching career will continue for years to come.
F for reading comprehension. You can not paste two statements from two different authors together and conclude the two authors meant the same thing.
I do not discount museksk8r statement, particularly since it was a response to my statement of which I agree, but it was not something I would have said or I would have said it.
Well, there is a much better chance than a crappy jumper being a good "technical" coach.
However, I could go on a pretentious rant about the wonderful examples of good coaching that Orser indubitabily had while at Mariposa Skating School, including with Doug Leigh, as well as while working with Petra Burka, etc, etc.
May Brian have many years of great success in coaching his students. Adam Rippon and Christina Gao are so fortunate to work with him.
I second those good wishes for Brian's career, and I do think this is Adam's year. Christina could surprise me early, but I see a bright future for her also. There will be many more Orser students standing on podiums in years to come. Go Brian.
I think we all know this is all downhill for Brian from now on. I hope he can perhaps get a judging gig on Battle of the Blades.
You are being facetious, right???
Contrary to your take on the thing, pursuing more business and being rich are very much correlated (its not bad and not to be blamed either), unless the guy is counting his days or suddenly turn to zen or monkhood.
Where did I say that Orser was not a great skater or he would not be a good coach? As to honing athletes to be champions, so far he has only one case in Yu-Na. I don’t mean to understate whatever contributions he made for Yu-Na’s success, but I have reasons to doubt he actually contributed much to the technical side of her skating. But as I said in my earlier post, it would be unfair to judge him solely based on that, since Yu-Na was already a wunderkind before Orser and she had been often plagued by injuries in the early part of her senior career. No doubt he has tools to be a good coach, as he was a great skater. But it remains to be seen if he has other qualities to be a good coach. A great athlete does not necessarily make a great manager or a leader. A season or two more with Gao and Rippon will give a better picture. I want to see Rippon stabilize his second 3-axel this season.
What is it exactly that annoys you. Dont be too serious, and join in building a perspective on what has transpired. Information is always good, and enjoy a little intellectual exercise.
I know, Mao and her federation have been consistent in denying the contacts made with Orser. But true or not, what else would they have done? What else would you have done?
It’s been Orser who has been bringing up Mao’s name and her initial interest in him and the team, time after time as a factor in the split with Yu-Na, so take it to him if you want. It (his accounts on Mao’s interest) is noteworthy since it clearly played a part in the split, as also implied by Yu-Na’s response later on. It also can present some clue on what might develop, or not develop, in his collaboration with the Japanese federation from now on.
It’s interesting that Orser had been consistently (since early May until recently) mentioning the approach made by Mao’s side, while Yu-Na had been silent on this matter. And amidst the split, Orser surprisingly went so far as disclosing the email to the media, as if he wanted to say that he wasn’t making things up. Maybe he hated to be viewed as being untruthful, as Mao’s side, IMG (Mao’s and Orser’s agent), and the Japanese federation were denying such contact was made with Orser. It was only at his last interview with a Canadian media that he denied the existence of such contact from Mao’s side, and he finally stopped talking and let his attorney handle the calls from the media.
It’s conceivable Orser sooner or later will be working closely with the Japanese federation, or IMG Japan, or Mao, or any combination thereof. And I believe he has, or he thought he had, a substantial deal with them.
If it weren’t the case, it would have made much more sense if he had found a way to retain Yu-Na (or at least keep the bridge intact for future possibilities) at the same time working with the Japanese clients by balancing the needs and managing the sort of a Chinese wall between the sides.
But he chose to cut his and his team’s ties with Yu-Na completely, which indicates he has the deal in front of him and made a firm business decision on it. Again, I don’t blame him on making such decision as it’s his business, but the way he handled the split was far from being classy, to the point of being malicious. He practically defamed Yu-Na and her mom, who came to him with a phenomenal talent and put him in the mainstream spotlight for the first time in more than a decade. I am glad Yu-Na has chosen to remain silent as to the details of the split so far, and not made the things worse.
It interests me what would happen as to his priorities if he get to work with a top Japanese skater, while working with Rippon and Gao, both being the top prospects. And what if he pick up a Canadian contender along the way? It might not bring on such delicate situation as Yu-Na/Japan combination would make, but still there will be some fine balancing acts needed to be done to keep such partnerships working.
lowtherlore, all I can say is that your elaborate conspiracy theories and assumptions sound very far-fetched to me.
That's putting it mildly. My reaction was "what kind of crack is this person smoking?"
It annoys me that in an overheated scandal certain side wants to pull in another part to the story that has nothing to do with the ridiculous situation.
And it goes over and over - again and again.
As much as Kim and Asada are rivals on ice, on competitions and rankings - one does not change her costume if the other has a similar designer and the fact that one is between coaches does not mean she wants to share on ice training time with the main competition.
This was a problem between Brian and Yu Na (and people who look after her, like her mom, agency etc). Asada chasing Orser to coach her while Yu Na is his client and is eligible is silly at its best. even more so when it was marked as rumors from Orser and her representatives months ago.
Constantly dragging Mao in this scandal as if she wanted to destroy the dream team Orser-Kim and overpover Korea (this was said on other boards - not here i think) is just... pathetic.
Almost as insane as that Orser needs to apologize to people of South Korea for reveling the music since he deprived them the joy of this gift of Yu Na.
What he did is not a big deal in general, but it is in my opinion very hurtful to Yu Na and people working for her.
The article sounded to me like a nice gesture, but it does not change that he is an a**hole and a prick for doing it even if in his mind it was all in good spirit.
I wonder how much time was spent developing that theory.
I have read more far-fetched theories out there though. Those Yuna fans need to get together and write a drama script.
A lot of the theories I've read here a bunch of drivel. I'm not particularly a Mao fan but I am a YuNa fan, but not for one moment do I buy into the paranoid rantings I've read here about Brian Orser and it's my bet that most outside of Korea or Japan would agree with me. What is needed here is a reality orientation and I have yet to see it.
Look, I like Yu-Na's skating and all, but I'm getting more and more reluctant to call myself a Yu-Na fan when wacko paranoid posts like these pop up. Yu-Na herself seems to have moved on, maybe we as fans should follow her cue.
Besides, not everything that goes wrong in Yu-Na's life has to do with Mao or Japan.
Don't also drag JSF into this Yuna-Orser split. What are your proof and evidence, may I ask? They've got nothing to do with Mr.Orser and Ms.Kim. It was not JSF who denied the rumor, but it was first Mao's agent, then Mao herself and in this August first Mr. Orser and later IMG head office. (But I know even if 100 people denied the rumor, some Yuna fans wouldn't give up on dragging Mao, Japan, IMG and JSF into the Yuna split.) This spring JSF got surprised to hear the rumor that was surficing in Korea, and made an inquiry to Mao's agent about whether the rumor was true or not. It was Mao's agent that denied the rumor clearly to JSF and made the official annoucement to the public that they had never approached Mr. Orser, nor made an offer to him. JSF now (not old JSF) is usually sort of out of the loop of their skaters' coaching matters, such as coaching change. They even didn't know that Morozov had taken up Oda and that had made Takahashi leave Morozov until the breakup was reported by the media.
Oooops! Maybe I shouldn't have taken lowtherlore's post seriously .
Youre right. Did you see anyone here saying otherwise?
Orser was consistent in that he had been approached by Mao’s side.
Mao and the Japanese federation were consistent in denying such contact made with Orser.
Clearly one side is lying, isn’t it.
Now consider these:
Mao and her federation had every reason for denying such approach made to Orser.
If such contact from Mao’s side hadn’t been there, Orser wouldn’t have had any reason for insisting for several months on many occasions that he had been indeed approached by Mao’s side.
What’s your take on this. Who’s being untruthful here? Please, I don’t necessarily take either of them accountable for the latest athlete-coach split.
As for Orser’s disclosing Yu-Na’s programme prematurely without discussion or consent, it’s laughable to think that he might have done it in goodwill. He’s not an amateur in dealing with figure skating athletes and their trades. Every clue says he did it with malicious intent and in a pre-contemplated manner.
Normally, I stay out of these things, but you are taking this way too personally and way too seriously. Lighten up, this is only a sport.
ETA - Orser will be fine as long as he stays alway from crazy Yu-Na fans.
With four fresh years on the horizon and the recent split with Kim, his career in a way is just beginning. His success with Yuna blossomed in Vancouver; now that he has experience I see some of our younger talents- Rippon & Gao, flourishing under his tutelage. He's been there, done that, learned how to nurture- I think the next four years will be challenging, but will definitely reap big rewards.
I'm not a Abbott fan. There is something I can not describe but bothers me about his skating.
However, he has great technique and basic, so I think he will be one, this or next year.
Hope to see Dai gets his too.
I know Tomas Verner was at the Cricket Club for a little while this summer. Last I heard, he was doing the wait-and-see approach to finding a coach. Maybe Orser could be his coach ? (Anything but going back to Papa Huth please )
it's not MY take at all it's a FACT. Facts are not subjective are they?
Lowerthanlow...have you ever even met the man (Orser)? You have so much to say about him and I'd bet money you've never met him, don't know the first thing about him and have never seen him coach.
Strong opinions mean nada when you have zero to back them up see.
Is this the best you can do for "every clue"? This is *one* source, and it's a blog expressing the writer's opinion. The writer gives no support for the assertion about an "unwritten rule".
You have no support for the allegation that "he did it with malicious intent and in a pre-contemplated manner", other than your anti-Orser paranoia.
Separate names with a comma.