Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by lowtherlore, Sep 1, 2010.
Hoping that Yu-Na bombers will move on?
Which many top coaches? How many skaters can pay their coaches a percentage of their earnings plus hourly rates and still afford to cover other expenses?
I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC Frank Carroll used to have this arrangement with most of his top skaters. By "top" I mean world/Olympic level. And if he is doing it I wouldn't be surprised if it is standard practice with other top coaches.
In general, and again someone correct me if need be, I believe that the argument for taking a percentage of the skater's earnings is that beyond the day to day tasks of lessons, choreography, competition, etc., that the coach has a fixed price for, the coach has helped the skater develop the reputation/skills to be earning money in shows and in whatever else they do. So the coach should be compensated for that contribution.
(Don't flame/neg rep me if you disagree with this. I'm just the messenger....)
Hopefully, Abbott and Rippon will be two of many champions he will coach!
Orser is now coaching Abbott?
But isn't developing skills part of daily tasks?
I understand the rationale is perfectly legit, but I think it should apply only if the coach in question made any form of initial investment on the skater. For instance, if a coach gives a promising student with tight budget a discount, he/she should have legitimate claim on future earnings. I can see Frank striking such deal with young Kwan or Nagasu.
I will die of happiness if/when this happens.
A WC for Rippon in the future would also make me very happy.
No, Jeremy is still based in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan and training under Yuka Sato and Jason Dungjen.
Thanks -- that's certainly what I understood, but I thought that perhaps I had somehow missed reading about what would have been a major change.
"I dont know how good a technical coach Orser would make,"
a fantastic technical coach. It would be hard pressed to find another coach who had fabulous technique as a skater (very narrow field there), Olympic competative experience and is already a well respected, well known and a millionaire. All those things...just like a winner in skating...are hard to find in one package.
Brian will be just fine.
I must make mention that the idea of Brian needing/wanting money re: Yu na is ridiculous. Brian was a self made millionaire LONG BEFORE Yu na .
Did you ever see Orser skate? His technique was amazing. Heck, there is even footage of him practicing quads on Youtube.
Plus, he is famously known as "Mr. Triple Axel" because he was the first skater in history to routinely and consistently perform the jump in competition. He was the first skater in history to ever land the 3Axel at the Olympics in 1984. If not for compulsories, he would have defeated Scott Hamilton at both the 1984 Olympics and Worlds. He became the first skater at the World Championships to land two triple axels in the free skate and three in the same competition in 1987.
That is exactly what TT said she did. No contracts, and her earnings go up according to her students' earnings. If that's not a percentage of earnings deal, then what is it? She also said she doesn't charge by the hour, so I think more elite coaches take this approach than the general public is aware of.
then I bet she has some sort of base retainer.
lowtherlore seems to be asking (doubting) if Orser was (or will be) a good technical coach, but you two are simply saying he's a good jumper. What an irrelevant answer.. good jumper doesn't automatically mean good coach.
Oh please that's a bit of a stretch. Orser was way more than just a good jumper. As for his coaching skills, everything his top level skaters have put out on the ice since going to Orser would suggest he's got a pretty good idea what he's teaching and how to get the message across.
lowtherlore doesn't care whether Orser is a good technical coach, it was an irrelevant question. This thread was started for one reason and one reason only.
Moskvina had this arrangement with her pairs, and I'm sure I read that the same was true for Plushenko and Mishin. Mishin received a salary to coach. I'm not sure if Moskvina did when she was in the US.
I think the poster was trying to say that Orser is famous for his technical prowess, and as a coach he's very good at polishing his skater's technical abilities. I believe it was one of the reasons why Ms. Kim originally sought him out to be her coach.
I remember watching Brian Orser's LP at the 84 Olys. I was amazed with his technical and artistic ability. His jumps, spins, and footwork were of impeccable quality. I actually freaked when he landed his triple axels. It just seemed to be so natural with Brian. I just wish I had a VCR back then to tape it.
I was thrilled, however, to find his unforgettable LP on YouTube.
There is no doubt that his coaching career will continue for years to come.
F for reading comprehension. You can not paste two statements from two different authors together and conclude the two authors meant the same thing.
I do not discount museksk8r statement, particularly since it was a response to my statement of which I agree, but it was not something I would have said or I would have said it.
Well, there is a much better chance than a crappy jumper being a good "technical" coach.
However, I could go on a pretentious rant about the wonderful examples of good coaching that Orser indubitabily had while at Mariposa Skating School, including with Doug Leigh, as well as while working with Petra Burka, etc, etc.
May Brian have many years of great success in coaching his students. Adam Rippon and Christina Gao are so fortunate to work with him.
I second those good wishes for Brian's career, and I do think this is Adam's year. Christina could surprise me early, but I see a bright future for her also. There will be many more Orser students standing on podiums in years to come. Go Brian.
I think we all know this is all downhill for Brian from now on. I hope he can perhaps get a judging gig on Battle of the Blades.
You are being facetious, right???
Contrary to your take on the thing, pursuing more business and being rich are very much correlated (its not bad and not to be blamed either), unless the guy is counting his days or suddenly turn to zen or monkhood.
Where did I say that Orser was not a great skater or he would not be a good coach? As to honing athletes to be champions, so far he has only one case in Yu-Na. I don’t mean to understate whatever contributions he made for Yu-Na’s success, but I have reasons to doubt he actually contributed much to the technical side of her skating. But as I said in my earlier post, it would be unfair to judge him solely based on that, since Yu-Na was already a wunderkind before Orser and she had been often plagued by injuries in the early part of her senior career. No doubt he has tools to be a good coach, as he was a great skater. But it remains to be seen if he has other qualities to be a good coach. A great athlete does not necessarily make a great manager or a leader. A season or two more with Gao and Rippon will give a better picture. I want to see Rippon stabilize his second 3-axel this season.
What is it exactly that annoys you. Dont be too serious, and join in building a perspective on what has transpired. Information is always good, and enjoy a little intellectual exercise.