`We can't afford mistakes this season' Vaitsekhovskaya's interview with Trankov

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by TAHbKA, Jul 8, 2013.

  1. TAHbKA

    TAHbKA Well-Known Member

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    `We can't afford mistakes this season' Vaitsekhovskaya's interview with Trankov for sport-express.ru
    The world champion who I met with right after Volosozhar/Trankov came back to Moscow from Korea stunned me right from the start. When asked when exactly their season began Maksim replied `it haven't even really started yet'.
    And immediately added: I'm used to count the first competition a beginning of the season. So far it've all been the off season training.

    EV: When have you started working on the new programmes?
    MT: Right after the team championship in Japan which took place in the middle of April. After which Tanya and I went for a couple of days to Sochi.

    EV: To finalize yours and Tanya's move to that city after the Olympics?
    MT: Yes. Right now there is nowhere to move to - there is no place to live. Perhaps Tanya and I will open our own school in Sochi after the Olympics. We went there to discuss all that with the Krasnoyarsk leads. Right now we have nothing - we don't owe any apartments, the odds to get one in Moscow are low - the current major of town wouldn't grant the athletes flats for any achievements. All the ice rinks are packed and there is nowhere to work. So why not move to Sochi?
    Right after that we went to Mexico for a vacation. We were there with Bourzat and some other skaters. Quite by chance we all ended up in the same hotel.


    EV: What do you mean by chance?
    MT: You know, Cancun is a place where many skaters who train in the USA come for their vacation. We went to a camp in the USA after the vacation to start working on the programmes. After that we skated in a couple of shows.

    EV: Which programmes were you skating in the show?
    MT: This time we were skating to the live music. We had 5-6 shows and then went to Korea to join Yu Na Kim's show there.

    EV: Does the Korean shows differ from the Europeans shows?
    MT: They are more demanding -there are several group numbers, so for the first couple of days we had to work really hard. David Wilson, who choreographs for Yu Na a lot was choreographing it. Besides they were using quite a lot of Korean special effects. The organization was amazing.

    EV: I heard the Chinese are known for their special effects in the shows.
    MT: We never had a chance to skate in the shows in China, but , as far as I know, the skaters dont really like participating them

    EV: Why?
    MT: Too much work. The demands are too high. I head people were skating almost the whole day long - there are no vacation days, no days to overcome the jet lag. Right after the landing everyone is taken to the ice, while the conditions in which they live and move from place to place are not the best. Of course it is well payed, but it's not much fun skating in Chinese shows. The level is not that high either.

    EV: Do you keep the Olympic programmes a secret yet?
    MT: As usual. We were able to use our very old ideas. Nina Mikhailona is still not quite certain about them though.

    EV: Why?
    MT: Perhaps she is not sure it's the best thing we could choose.

    EV: What do you think?
    MT: We already showed the programmes to some of the specialists, and everyone who've seen them liked them. Despite us using an `overused' music. But I think we'll be able to surprise as early as in the SP. It's different from all our previous programmes.

    EV: So how are you going to surprise doing the standard elements list to an `overused' music?
    TM: With our skating. We managed last season, even though many told us using the `Godfather' music was a mistake

    EV: I.e. you reckon you'll be able to interpret the used pieces like no one did before?
    MT: Exactly. At least like no one did before in pairs.

    EV: How had things changed now that you are not the only top pair in Mozer's group?
    MT: I cant' say anything had changed. In the USA we were training on the same ice with Ksenia Stolbova/Fedor Klimov, but we could just as well skate with Bazarova/Larionov or alone. We don't feel any lack of attention from Mozer, especially since she wasnt' choreographing our programmes or working on the technique with us. She is first of all the manager. So yeah, things became harder for her - there is much more work, but if Mozer thinks that's what is needed for our Olympic results - that must be right. We got used trusting the coach completely in those matters.
    We are quite friendly with each other, there is no envy. Tanya and I help the guys with some lifts. It's easier for us as well. It must be much harder for the new pairs though - they have an exact plan for every day. Whether it's dance, gym, choreography or weight lifting. It happened that we would only see each other in the morning during the breakfast and then not cross passes for the whole day.

    EV: Was it equally hard for you and Volosozhar during your first year with Mozer?
    MT: We knew in advance we'd have to pack a 5 years work into 3. We were ready for it and knew what we were stepping into. It was really useful we were invited to many shows from the very beginning. Ksenia/Fedor and Vera/Yuri don't have such an opportunity, so they have to go through the same school in training only.

    EV: What does participating the shows contribute to your training?
    MT: For example during the Yu Na Show we skated with Kurt Browning. He is a legend for me - not only because he is the 4 times world champion. I was his fan when I was a kid. To skate on the same ice with him is an experience. There is so much to learn from him. That was one of the biggest impressions from our trip.

    EV: Were you disappointed he is not as he used to be when he was young?
    MT: At the age of 47 he is landing tripple jumps holding an umbrella. Except for the lack of hair nothing tells how old he really is. In many things Browning is far better than our single skaters. The spins, the steps...

    EV: What are you plans for the next USA training camp?
    MT: We are going to finish working on the programmes in New Jersey and will start polishing them.

    EV: Did you decide on the location because Tatiana still needs the American doctor?
    MT: Not only. Nikolai Morozov works with his group not far from there. It's convenient: he choreographed our programmes and we need his help constantly. By the way during the first training camp in the USA we went to Igor Shpilband. We didn't have a lot of time to work with him, but he choreographed an exhibition for us. Despite having to leave he spent 2 days working with us. Oksana Grischuk helps him a lot with the ice dancers now.

    EV: What was your biggest USA impression this summer?
    MT: My mother came with me to the USA. We went to the viewing point in New Jersey with a wonderful view on New York. I dreamed taking my parents there and showing them the city. I didn't get bringing my father there...

    EV: Do you miss competing?
    MT: I don't like competing that much, so no, I don't miss it.

    EV: Do you feel it's the Olympic season?
    MT: We do think about the Olympics, but not in details yet. There are still many `steps' before. When the Europeans will be over we'll concentrate on Sochi.

    EV: Is your first competition this season the USA Grand Prix?
    MT: No. After the internal skates in September in Sochi we plan going to Nebelhorn Trophy in Oberstdorf. to show the programmes and check how the judges and the audience take it. We can't afford mistakes this season.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2013
  2. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    "EV: Were you disappointed he is not as he used to be when he was young?
    MT: At the age of 47 he is landing tripple jumps holding an umbrella. Except for the lack of hair nothing tells how old he really is. In many things Brawning is far better than our single skaters. The spins, the steps..."

    He was asked about Kurt Browning. I like his answer. :)

    Earlier in the interview, it sounded like they plan to retire after the 2014 Olympics and settle down in Sochi. I am surprised that they cannot find an apartment in Moscow. Is it lack of availability or affordability?
     
  3. reut

    reut Active Member

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    Makes you wonder about what kind of coach she is. And, yes, this definitely works for Trankov. And gives an idea why he couldn't work with other coaches...

    No news about programs, I'm bored already without even seeing them.
    Pity, such a waste, the pair with amazing technical abilities and zero interest to make something original and new...
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2013
  4. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    Their goal is to win the OGM; not risk losing it by doing something risky. IMO that is the wise approach. There are no bonus marks for 'original and new' unless it's ice dance.
     
  5. reut

    reut Active Member

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    I completely understand their choice. But can't respect it. And of course can't be glad for it, because, as I mentioned above, I see it as a waste of their abilities.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2013
  6. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I agree. This is a partnership I was really looking forward to, but it's been such a disappointment. I didn't expect groundbreaking, innovative stuff, but they have produced one uninspired program after another - I'd actually argue that their programs together may be worse than what they did with their previous partners. What a waste.

    And contrary to what Maxim says, they can certainly afford mistakes and a bit of risk-taking, considering the extent of the politikking push they have.
     
  7. reut

    reut Active Member

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    Their programs were OK, it's just they could be so much better. I don't care about the medals (they do naturally), me as a spectator I care about interesting programs, and I'm disappointed...

    Politikking will be HUGE, especially because other Russia's "Olympic hopes" either dropped or went from gold to "at least bronze" (in ice dance, for example). Still I understand their wish to be clean. Still I don't respect their choice to be, once again, on the safe side.
     
  8. Knigolubka

    Knigolubka New Member

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    No matter how much of politiлking one think they have they still aren't allowed to blow their chances at these Games. They are against S/S and never have won against them unless they were better. And if they will with mistakes against clean-ish S/S they'll be skinned.

    I, for one (and yes, I'm a hage fan)б would love to see them in a really classical program after three years of partnership.
     
  9. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    So, which warhorse will they use then?
     
  10. yunasashafan

    yunasashafan Member

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    Something that has not been used too much in pairs, apparently. Carmen??:scream::shuffle::scream:
     
  11. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    One thing I like is that they don't disdain the senior Bs like many high profile contenders.
     
  12. Knigolubka

    Knigolubka New Member

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    Nah, not likely. It's probably someyjing from the Russian classical music, since they've done Swan Lake and Romeo&Juliette, may be it's simething from Rakhmaninov? Or Borodin?
     
  13. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    They've already skated to Romeo and Juliet (Prokofiev). Has Borodin done anything that would be considered a warhorse (a quick scan of his compositions at Wikipedia says no, but I'm probably missing something)?
     
  14. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    The Firebird?

    Please don't let it be POTO. :scream:
     
  15. Knigolubka

    Knigolubka New Member

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    Yes, the Polovtsian Dances from the opera "Prince Igor", it's been done quiete a lot, especially in ice dance. I'd love them to do something else from Prince Igor, there are a lot of music that'd suit them
     
  16. rfisher

    rfisher Satisfied skating fan

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    I think they are doing exactly what they need to do for themselves. An OGM will open many doors for them and they are looking for what happens after February. Experimentation doesn't put points on the board and that is what is important for them. For a pairs team to reach OGM level in only 3 years is an extraordinary accomplishment even if both members were experienced skaters. They still had to learn to skate together. The amount of trust the female partner has to place on the male is difficult. Female pairs skaters are tiny but they have the heart of lions and Volosozhar is a lioness.
     
  17. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    They'll have been together for nearly four years by the time of the Olympics, and have actually had a fairly similar career trajectory to Sale and Pelletier - who were not as successful before teaming up as V/T had been. Yes, they're doing what they need to, but I'd like to think of champions as challenging themselves to do more than check the boxes; the truly memorable ones go well past that. V/T appear content to be acceptably good when they could legitimately aspire for great. I find that disappointing.

    Perhaps the similarity will continue with another pairs scandal and a new scoring system? :EVILLE:
     
  18. rfisher

    rfisher Satisfied skating fan

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    I'd be all for a new scoring system, but I don't want anything to tarnish their win. :lol: Hopefully, the judges and myself will be happy with their skates and they'll get that OGM and they won't give a damn what the fans grouse about. That being said, Max will change things if they get negative feedback at the senior B. He wants to win. And the :drama: about Morosov can start now, but his choreography wins points and that is the ultimate goal.

    S/S have tried edgy and experimentation and it didn't win them the right color medals so there is a lesson to be learned here.
     
  19. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    They won Worlds four times, with quite a few diverse and interesting programs during that time (and in the years when they only medalled). I think the lesson is that it is possible to be rewarded for difficult and interesting programs even if they're not perfect and you aren't from a super powerful federation. Their failure to win an OGM in 2010 wasn't due to edgy programs; as S/S programs go, Out of Africa was fairly conventional. It was just not a good season for them.

    So if anything, I think their example should show exactly the opposite of what you suggest...
     
  20. rfisher

    rfisher Satisfied skating fan

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    They won Worlds because they're good and because the competition wasn't that strong. V/T were their only real competition and V/T beat them easily this last season. S/S will be the interesting element this year. Last season was one of their bad seasons (they seem to alternate them so hopefully this year is a good year) and they almost didn't medal at all at Worlds. Will they make the throw3A a standard part of their programs or keep it in reserve? Will Ingo go for edgy or be conservative and try to win? Sadly, both teams will quit after Sochi. :wuzrobbed:
     
  21. halffull

    halffull halffull kind of day

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    I think S/S will come out strong this year after disappointment last season. I think she didn't fully recovery from her illness at Skate Canada. They still looked slow and a bit laboured at Worlds. I hope the battle between V/T and S/S is one to make us all sit on the edge of our seats this season :) So much better for the sport and the fans when there is a battle for gold.
     
  22. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    By the same logic, V/T have only won Worlds when the competition was not strong (off-form S/S) and have lost multiple times to S/S.

    The odds of both pairs skating their best at the same major event strike me as slim.
     
  23. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    My thoughts exactly. Once the Olympics are over, they have the rest of their lives to experiment, be original, etc. I am glad that they are focused on their goal of winning the OGM. It won't be easy; they are against some tough competition. Trankov is right when he says we can't afford to make any mistakes. There is a time to be original and creative, and it's not now.
     
  24. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    Sadly, with the death of pro skating, that really doesn't happen anymore. :( They will end up skating in some shows with live musicians, recycling their moves into "new" programs, etc. Ironically, the choreography seems to be more experimental when skaters have celebrity partners or other unusual setups (like Averbukh's show where the Russian legends all switched partners). Pro programs were so much better when there were real World Pro events.

    I can understand if skaters try to be experimental, it doesn't work out in the scores, and then they go back to something traditional - at least they tried. It bugs that a team as talented as this has never even been given the incentive to try. They are good enough to be the next B&S, V&V, or M&D. The judges have been giving them the same or higher scores than people who actually have more transitions and more original choreography, so I don't blame them not for trying even though they now have a nice gap over the field.
     
  25. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    I think availability. Limited availability of affordable housing. Overabundance of luxury apartments.

    You don't want to be unique too much and go for a non warhorse. Maybe the ghost or the aboriginal dances should have been no gos from the very beginning and were so obviously bad that there was strategy to their awfulness (ghost to make anything look better in the olympic season and aboriginal to go easy on max and not do any recognizable dance because max was injured) but what if they were genuinely believed to be unique and interesting?
     
  26. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    Pro skating is dead in the USA, but I believe in Russia and Europe they will have opportunities to experiment with different things.

    B&S were very creative in their Chaplin LP, but some judges did not like it, so for the Olympic season they had to choose a more traditional music - Meditation from Thais. You do what you have to do to win the OGM. That's what V&T are doing. The OGM program is not to please the fans, but to please the judges, and they have to feel comfortable with the program. Why rock the boat at the most inopportune time? It took them a couple of years just to be able to skate together as a pair, so it's really been just one year of 'comfort' for them.
     
  27. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I don't buy the "must have overused music to win" approach. V/M won an OGM skating to Mahler, D/W had the Bollywood OD, Yuna Kim skated to a Gershwin concerto, Mao to Bells of Moscow; S/Z's SP was Who Wants To Live Forever. Pang and Tong's SP that season was The Pearl Fishers and their LP (which they won in Vancouver) The Impossible Dream. All these skaters won Olympic gold or silver with at least one program that was not super overused music (though some of them did opt for more familiar fare in the other program). Throw in the bronze medalists and you have Eye by COBA (Takahashi), The Double Life of Veronique (DomShabs) and Out of Africa (S/S). A bit further back, Jeff Buttle won Worlds skating to Ararat and an Olympic medal skating the Tribute to Glenn Gould program. More recently, Carolina Kostner won Worlds with Shostakovich and a Mozart concerto I don't recall being used in skating before.

    Yes, skating to something familiar can be easier, but this doesn't mean it's the only way. FWIW, V/T did try to do something different with their SP a couple of seasons ago, but for the most part they have been skating run of the mill programs when they are capable of so much more.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2013
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  28. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Lots of good examples! Maybe not Mao with bells of Moscow though. Lost track of "too heavy" or "inappropriate" or "Ill fitting" statements. But she did get silver. War horses arent the only way but the risk is greater! Maybe they can afford the risk of new music but you don't want a total disaster! D/s did skate to double life but they also put some rfad in there and it became the rfad program to many.
     
  29. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Very little of it was RfaD, so I don't really get why anyone would think of it as such. They really should have just stuck with the Double Life of Veronique; it's a beautiful score.

    Cappellini and Lanotte, OTOH, really did skate to RfaD, and did a surprisingly good job with it.
     
  30. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    1. "Like" should not be the primary driver for judging programs, and it shouldn't be acceptable for judges at the highest level.
    2. Those judges were fools.
     
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