Watching old tapes: today mens sp Salt Lake City 2002

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by SmallFairy, Apr 12, 2011.

  1. SmallFairy

    SmallFairy Well-Known Member

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    I'm at home in my sofa, I have chocolate, and one of my favourite vids in the vcr, does life get any better? :watch:

    At the moment, Chenjiang Li is rocking the house with his so cool Kung Fu music. I always enjoyed that program of his, and ok, his spins are not all that, but his quad....oh MY!!!! so crisp and perfect, love the sound of his blade when it hits the ice!

    Earlier Anthony Liu also did a beauty 4t, and Yosuke Takeuchi went mad with the neon orange feathers on his outfit!

    Baby Stephane and Baby Brian, Davydov skating so clean, with the best 3a3t of the night, Michael Weiss flexing his muscles.....and this is just the beginning....because now Yagudin is on the ice! Li goes first, but he won't stay there for long!!

    Those were SO the days!!:respec:


    ....and thinking of that somewhere on that tape is Sasha Abt with his masterpiece armenian program, with step sequences from heaven, and Takeshi Honda skating clean!!

    will see if I can find some youtube links, will you enjoy it with me??

    ETA: I forgot...how could I, Dmitrenko will be here too, in his flesh coloured body suit with flowers and a snake draped around his leg and upper body! legend outfit!! (complete with bird twitter!)
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2011
  2. SmallFairy

    SmallFairy Well-Known Member

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  3. Patzeez

    Patzeez New Member

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    What a treat, SmallFairy!! Thanks for making the links to these fabulous programs.
    Yagudin's "Winter" is still incredible.
     
  4. Wiery

    Wiery Well-Known Member

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    Thank you so very much! I love these programs!!!! :kickass:

    Alexander Abt's camel spin position is so beautiful! :swoon:
     
  5. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    This year was definitely one of my favorite olympic years for men. The Free Skates were amazing as well
     
  6. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    I'm not really a fan of Yagudin in general, but that 'Winter' program was SO amazing.

    I forgot how good Alexander Abt was too. It's kind of sucks for him that he had to skate during the Yagudin/Plushenko era and lost out on a time to shine, kind of. He's better than any of the Russian men they have now.

    Timothy really skated lights out. I felt bad for Todd.
     
  7. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Yagudin, Honda, Abt and even Weiss were great! So much great choreography, artistry and footwork amongst these four! I would love for Honda and Abt to have medalled...

    The two MJ programs this season put Plushenko's to shame.
     
  8. DickButtonFan

    DickButtonFan New Member

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    Salt Lake was my fav for the men. Soooo many quads, so many men with quality skating and it doesn't get better than Yags. Even Todd was great even with the falls, and his attempts at the quad at such a late age. I loved it. :D

    I think Salt Lake was my fav olympics even for the women, even though Sarah Hughes won who I'm not a fan of, it was one of the most exciting moments in sport to see the underdog win.
     
  9. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    'scuse me, I'm going to have my obligatory hissy fit:


    #SASHAWUZROBBED :(:(:(:(:(:(

    Seriously, how on earth did he end up 5th after SP when Plushenko was 4th with a fall? I love Plushy don't get me wrong, but...

    Actually, I really like this performance of Plushy's MJ program (relative to his other MJ programs) because of the recovery effort. He could have really fallen to pieces after that fall but I think the rest of his performance was quite strong.

    And of course I'll always love Yagudin's "Winter".
     
  10. SmallFairy

    SmallFairy Well-Known Member

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    I know....so many quads....and quads combined with artistry and great programs! Yagudin....love**

    It's almost easier to recall who didn't have a quad, than who did...I mean, Zoltan Toth landed his quad!
    Other skaters with quads (though not all landed) was Yags, Plush, Abt, Weiss, Goebel, Eldredge (wow, I was speachless, what a feat at almost 30!!!), Stojko, (Sandhu would have had one too if he could compete), Honda, Takeuchi, Li, Li, Zhang, Liu, Dinev, Dambier, Joubert... did I forget anyone?

    (that leaves Davydov, Dmitrenko, Lambiel, Dolfini, Murvandize, Rylov, Chiper, van der Perren (what a sp he had, his happiness at the end is priceless!, Skorniakov, Lee and Hernits)

    and how Sasha could end up fifth, I will never quite get over....his program was sooooo good, so groovy, and those steps and that basic...awwwww gushing voids!!

    btw I too enjoyed parts of Plushys program, though not his pelvis shake :yikes:
    his 3a was so textbook flawless!

    Will definitely watch the fs tape tomorrow!!
     
  11. PashaFan

    PashaFan Active Member

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    I have all the tapes to the 2002 Olympics which I'm now copying on to DVD.
    It's such a treat to watch my old faves such as Marina & Gwendal, Michelle Kwan & Yagudin.
    I watched the Ladies free skate last night. There is no doubt that Sarah Hughes was best on the night but over the short & free skate I'm not sure if she was my winner.
    But I really enjoyed watching it & can't believe it's been 9 years since Salt Lake.
    I've always thought that there should have been 4 Pro events at the Olympics (maybe on the perfect 10 scoring system to make it different, plus just two triples per programme) so we could still see these great Champions compete rather than in just shows.
    Imagine watching Michelle Kwan, Katarina Witt & Shizuka Arikawa compete in the same event !.
     
  12. Zokko!

    Zokko! Comansnala?

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    Watching most of these tapes almost made me cry. :(

    Yes, those!!! were the days, when Men's competition was "the event", when Olympic Champions actually used to deliver Olympic Champion performances to remember ... :swoon:

    PS: And how well Takeshi did! It wasn't easy ... he had to skate right after Alexei, but obviously that "inspired" him ...
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2011
  13. ciocio

    ciocio New Member

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    Great!!!! I love SLC Olympics! Honda, Abt, Yagudin, Plushy were great!
    Back then I was a big Yagudin fan and I remember I enjoyed "Winter" a lot. :cheer2:
     
  14. mia joy

    mia joy New Member

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    I know, right? I cannot believe we keep debating if choreo and transitions are more important than quads. One look at Yags and the whole debate seems funny and pointless.

    Those were the times men skating was about MEN. Challenging each other. Powerful jumpers. And some great artists too.

    Just put Yagudin's programs next to Lysacek's, realize Yags was 8 years earlier and don't cry of hopelessness... impossible!!! so much for men skating developing...
     
  15. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    Sasha Abt was SO a victim of reputation judging. When he was on, he was not any less of a skater than either Yagudin or Plushenko. I think he had better skating skills in general, too. But then inconsistency didn't really help him. Too bad he was plagued with injuries earlier in his career when he should've been building a name for himself. What a shame :(

    I sill prefer men's skating in the late 2000's to circa 2002 though. I think skating has gotten more interesting and expressive.
     
  16. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    Maybe there's more to being MEN than powerful jumps? What an insult to those men who define themselves differently and want to be more than just that. :blah:
     
  17. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    It's not fair to compare Evan Lysacek's performance in 2010 with Yagudin's in 2002 and say figure skating has suffered a downfall. Yagudin is one of the best male skaters EVER. I don't see Lysacek's performance as inferior to Kulik's in 1998, Urmanov's in 1994, or Petrenko's in 1992. Re: Plushenko's 2006 performance, sure it had more quads than Evan's, but there wasn't much emotion behind it. Maybe Evan isn't the best Olympic champion EVER, but that doesn't mean that figure skating's gone downhill or he didn't deserve the gold medal.
     
    PDilemma and (deleted member) like this.
  18. Daria

    Daria New Member

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    Well, the sport changed, that's all. It would be nice if someone her put these 2002 programs under the current scoring system. Everyone landed quads at the time and that competition had a remarkable quality of course, but nowadays skaters are more challenged to improve on the others components, I think. PS. Sorry for eventual grammar errors, my english is kinda awkward. :)
     
  19. Fandango

    Fandango New Member

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    Thank you, SmallFairy, for posting all these links and bringing back the glory days of male figure skating! :respec: All those sweet memories came back to me; and I'm still having goosebumps while watching! Characters like Yagudin, Abt, Honda and even Plushenko (! ;) ) who were easily in the position to combine technical difficulties (quads) with great artistry (or at least great presentation), and all that in the SP already, in the most important, most exciting competition of their life! :encore:

    But that was "then" - and what do we have now? The slide rule generation. Lysacek the reigning "Olympic Champion", Chan almost surely the next World Champion. A lot of hesitant, boring 9-to-5-skaters and ardent point-collectors. Not enough real character's any more, and only a few rays of light in sight. Oh well, I cannot even blame them. It's the system. But the fun seems over (to me). :(
     
  20. Cloudy_Gumdrops

    Cloudy_Gumdrops New Member

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    Your English is very good. :)

    I always thought Abt wuzrobbed in the SP. I adore his Armenian Dances program.

    Li's 4toe is totally the best quad ever imo.
     
  21. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    But they were so much more than that. Have you seen any Yagudin programs after he went to Tarasova?
     
  22. mia joy

    mia joy New Member

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    That's exactly what I meant. He had that masculine style of skating, his quads were beautiful and at the same time, he was such an artist.

    And besides, I didn't say they were all about jumps. Jeez, here we go again. If they want to be "more than just that", that's great. I just don't get why they become sth else instead of that. Yagudin and some others from that period showed it was possible to combine jumps with emotion and artistry.

    Besides, it's not only that Lysacek didn't have any quads. If he had been an artistry and emotion master, I would have welcomed his gold over Plush's total lack of choreography. The problem is, he was neither a jumper, nor an artist. This is really not the kind of Olympic champ I wanna see after seing Yags - or even after seing Lambiel win silver in 2006.
     
  23. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    Absolutely! And not only challenging each other, but challenging THEMSELVES.

    This bugs me. Kulik, Yagudin and Plushenko all took big risks to win their golds. (Okay, in Plushenko's case it was always a little on the cut-and-dried side, but he still brought his A-game). Lysacek very obviously did not take risks. He was going to skate an absolutely safe program. He was never going to challenge himself with it. And you cannot call Plushenko's OGM-winning LP "emotionless" if you call Lysacek's "emotional", because Lysacek had all the emotion of a teaspoon.

    Or, to put it another way, if you look at say, Plushenko's Skate America LP from 1997...it's about the same level of technical. With the added difficulty that Plushenko was fourteen-about-to-turn-fifteen.


    But the jumps are neccessary. And if you are going to compete at the highest level, why not challenge yourself?

    Yes, this. All this generation of skaters seems to really care about is "collecting the points", and all the programs are beginning to look the same. I mean, look at last season and this season. Last season, men weren't really doing quads, because they didn't "score enough". Chan even proclaimed loudly all season that you didn't need a quad. What then is the point if you're not challenging yourself? This season, the score increased, and suddenly everyone was doing quads because of the scores.


    I don't skate to collect points, I don't skate to earn badges or pass tests or earn approval (although I certainly pass my tests and collect my badges). I skate for the thrill of doing something challenging, learning something new. I almost LIKE it when I can't do something, because it means I have to push myself. I think a lot of this generation of skaters is forgetting why they skate in the first place.
     
  24. millipied

    millipied New Member

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    Why this is suddenly became Lysacek defence thread? LOL:)
    And as the original poster pointed out 2002 had far more than Yagudin.
     
  25. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    So just because you skate for a particular reason, you somehow are attributing your desires in your own skating to not one or two but an entire generation of skaters and claiming they forget why they skated in the first place? Really?
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2011
  26. SmallFairy

    SmallFairy Well-Known Member

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    Thanks:):) 2002 had mostly everything!! So much quality in every aspect, and I felt that so many of the men were giving me a real experience, even though they weren't fighting for the medals, or had the complete package. Murvanidzes basic were horrid, but his spins were beautiful, and his charisma and program were so totally one-of-a-kind.

    Zoltan Toth skated a very romantic and tender program to tinkly piano music...and out of the blue came the quad! wow!

    we also still had some of the "old-school" guys; Rylov, Dmitrenko, Eldredge, Skorniakov...you almost felt they were from another era, and I miss them now! (Vlaschenko should have been there too, that would've been fab!)

    On Yagudin and Abt, I can go on gushing forever***

    Now, Daisuke is carrying their legacy:D
     
  27. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. Quads are not the only kind of risks or challenges to oneself. Full upper body movement in step sequences (including, yes, arm thrashing) is a risk. Difficult spin positions that challenge balance are a risk. Deep edges are a risk. Difficult entries or exits from jumps and spins are a risk. Including variety steps, turns, and highlight moves between elements rather than just simple turns, crossovers, gliding on two feet, and other simple skating is a risk. Skating with attack and energy instead of staying in one's comfort zone is a risk.

    Skating a program full of all of the above is much more risky than skating a simple program with the same jump content. How much some of the above makes up for including one quad vs. leaving it out (assuming one is capable of attempting one) is up for debate. But I think it's fair to say that in 2010 Plushenko left out a lot more of that stuff than he had in 2002, even accounting for the change of rules and judging system.
     
  28. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Well-Known Member

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    Siiiigh. :rolleyes:
     
  29. ciocio

    ciocio New Member

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    Probably we should make a poll to see how skaters injured themselves, training jumps, step sequences, spins, etc. It would be interesting.
     
  30. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I forgot how great Yagudin's "Winter" is.