Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by TAHbKA, Feb 1, 2011.
Actually, I liked both their programs this year.
Thank you, TaHbka
I also enjoyed their programs this season. I liked the ones from last season too.
They're both sounding better than just after Worlds. Thanks to the provider of the link and the translator.
We are slightly buffled with the new rules
Hello everyone! Since we last blogged we choreographed the new programmes in the USA, participated a show in China, rested in Dominican Republic and trained in Italy. The summer was very productive - there were no injuries (unlike last summer) and we worked a lot. We will tell all about it next time, this time we'll answer your questions, as we promised.
Q: Have you followed the Olympics in London? Who were you rooting for?
Tanya: We were in Italy during the games without an access to the streams. We checked the internet every morning and listened to the radio
Maksim: Vasilii Konov who was broadcasting from London did a great job, I could also write and ask him questions. A huge thank him for it. I think the Russian team did well - better than in Beijing. Of course I was surprised by the shooting and fencing results....
I was also very upset when Isinbaeva didn't take the gold. I took it so badly that I couldn't sleep till 3am: how come my beloved Isinbaeva didn't win? Next day I was rooting for Abakumova and again, no luck for her. I was thrilled for Anna Chicherova. I met her when we received the sportsmen of the year price. I really felt for my favourite basketball players, but, of course, the volleyball compensated! When they were playing we were on the road and couldn't follow. I read in twitter our guys won and told everyone on the flight - everyone were so happy. When I watched the recording of the game I thought I must have missed something or forgot how to read. But the end of the game was genious! The Olympics were great!
Tanya: We felt for everyone. Kudos to the girls from gymnastics and synchronized swimming. I'm also amazed by Hussein Bolt!
Maksim: Frankly, I never root for Phelps or Bolt. Just like I never do for Evgeni Pluschenko. There are people who are unbeatable in their sport. They are there in the right time and place. Of course they work so hard, I don't question that. I consider them great athletes, hence it's even more interesting looking at , say, Blake who is trying to get Bolt all the time. It's pretty cool to live at the same time of the fastest man on earth and the best swimmer of all the times. I will be able to tell my kids I saw them winning!
Tanya: I like the way they behave - their heads are in the right place, they have a good sense of humour. It's something to respect!
Q: Did you go to your vacation in Altai alone or did the coaches come with you?
Maksim: we were completely alone.
Q: Which GP events will you participatE?
Maksim: Unfortunately we cant' choose ourselves which GP events we are to participate, we can only tell which do we prefer. We got the Skate America and CoR. We had a slight choice, though: either Paris or Moscow. The hosting country can decide which of the local skaters will participate. We preferred to skate home: first we want to skate in front of the home crowd, second it's more convenient: one flight less and well, I still don't have a home medal.
Tanya: Except for the GP we'll participate the Nebelhorn Trophy.
Q: Maksim, was it hard to choreograph for a single female skater? Do you think it's something that would suit you? Or not at all? Did Tanya take any part in the process?
Maksim: I think choreographing is hard, but I was lucky to work with such a talented girl - working with her was fun and easy: she was catching everything on the spot. I was a bit worried first. I know it myself and any coach would tell the girls are more obedient then the guys, but it takes them longer to remember the moves. But in my case she remembered everything at once and even if she couldn't repeat a move immediately it was clear she understands the move and if needed will repeat it a 1000 times.
I would tell her: right, no time for that now, you can learn it later. Should we keep that in the programme? She would say : yes, let's keep. She liked what we were doing herself, and when the person likes what they do they usually make it. It wasn't hard, I liked the process, think it was more interesting, then teaching and coaching. I even had some hard time coming up with some of the programme parts, was driving around, thinking.... It's a capturing process.
Tanya: I wasn't taking any part in the choreographing. While Maksim was working I was warming up, then we practiced ourselves.
Q: What do you think about the rules change? In Korea there was a split twist where Maksim didn't lower his arms even on the shoulder level. Was it about the new rules? He used to take his arms apart, but not like that.
Maksim: Frankly, we are not thrilled with the new rules. There are a lot of changes in the lifts. Now a level 4 lift might be not quite interesting, even junior-ish, I used to perform some of them when I was 13. I don't really get where the figure skating is heading.
Tanya: Some things became easier, some harder. Some positions in the air are not counted. While the entrance and dismount gave points in the past now everything is counted in the air. Besides, Maksim doesnt' like how the opposite direction lifts look, so we have to look for other solutions.
Maksim: the changes are not in the lifts only. The only change I loved is in the split twists. Now the male partner has to lower his hands below the shoulders. I always did it, it was part of the level of the pair. So do the Chinese pairs. Now you have to emphasize it even more to gain the points. There are pairs that not only the male partner doesn't open his arms - he hardly leaves the female partner and yet they used to receive higher levels than we did. Don't think it should happen this year.
Tanya: The back inside todes and the forward inside now cost the same. We think it's wrong - the back inside is much harder, while the kids can perform the forward. I guess everyone will be performing the easy one now.
Maksim: the spirals are not clear either. You could just hold it for 6 seconds and get your levels, yet now there should be a choreographed something that covers the whole rink. We are not quite sure what exactly are we supposed to cover. And how? Diagonally? In a circle? Serpentine? We haven't received an answer yet, but we hope it'll be clarified soon.
Tanya: The rules are not supposed to change in the next two years till the Olympics, which is, of course, a good thing.
Maksim: I don't really get why changing the rules every year. What will they change in 10 years when there is nothing left to change?
Tanya: first they were talking about changing the elements which were badly defined or the elements that become too easy and all the pairs perform it.
Maksim: yet it seems that there are pairs in the top 5 (Canadians, for instance) who can't perform a level 4 lift, they perform level 3, yet the rules keep changing. Some pairs cant' even keep up with the changes. We are trying, even though there is a risk for an injury. Last year the lifts difficulty were changed and the two top pairs missed the elements or got lower levels in some competitions. Yet the lifts became even harder. Where to?
Tanya: In the USA we worked on the lifts with the acrobatics world champions. They helped us a lot: explained some points, showed new positions, gave new ides. We adapted those things for our needs, modernized some. We'll go back to that later - we recorded everything and will work on that.
That's it for now! We'll tell you soon how did we spend the summer and a bit about the new programmes. See you soon!
I have to agree with Maks regarding the rule changes. Who's making this stuff up? It sounds as if he's finding his post-competitive niche in choreography.
Maxim and Lambiel would make a great future choreo team
love Tanya and Max, I love how he is always outspoken to alot of things, I wouldn't mind Maksim doing Choreography post their competitive careers
Ladies, are you serious? If his choreography is anything like the crap he and Volosozhar have been skating so far I'd from such choreography.
Who did Trankov do choreo for? I must've missed that news completely!
A Latvian skater Alina Fjodorova (I think he blogged about it some months back)
Can´t say for others, I just hope he stays in skating some way
Thanks as always for the translation!
Don't worry, dude -- I'm sure they'll find something.
I remember his father saying that he didn't do the choreo as a dance choreographer but more like he helped to work in the elements so the program would be up to technical standarts
I assumed they'd just start changing things back, after a 10 year absense it'll be like a brand new thing for the skaters anyway.
About Fjodorova or about Volosozhar/Trankov's programmes? If about Fjodorova - well, it's not what Trankov himself blogged, but of course the daddy knows better.
If about Volosozhar/Trankov's programmes - I have an impression if Trankov doesn't choreograph it himself he had a lot to say on the matter (and I doubt they would have skated anything he didn't like/want)
????? I'm baffled by this statement. Not liking how they *look*? How would rotating in the other direction look any worse (unless you really suck at it)?
Fjodorova, it's not clear in the blog's entry what they were working on with the girl. TBH I see no harm in him trying to work with a junior skter from a small federation - he can try and see if it's what he's good at/wants to do after retirement.
I think that - yeah, Maxim has a big part in the music the pair choose, partly because Tania doesn't seem that involved in the music choces, partly because Mozer has a big experience in chosing music for seniors and Nikolai has too much skaters to chose music for. But I don't think Trankov choreographs the programm, they are too "Morozov" for that.
I think he mentioned that when you need to change direction the flow is interrupted, you need to slow the speed, and this makes it look worse.
I'm not 100% sure I remember it right, he mentioned it last year at Nebelhorn.
It's a dynamic process.
You identify an issue and you come up with a rule change to try to remedy it.
But you don't know how skaters are going to respond to it. You can't predict how they are going to adapt (or not).
After the season is over, you evaluate everything and try to improve it again (because things are never perfect).
Well her choreography could hardly get any worse.
Because the kids from smaller federations can be used as guinea pigs, of course.
It's quite clear from his previous blog entry what he was working on.
Partly because it's rather obvious he will not skate for anything he dislikes and he will not do anything he doesn't like/want to. Luckily to him his current partner can skate to any music and do it well, whether she likes it or not (though from her interviews it seems she is fine with the music)
It's not like she/her federation could've afforded a first-class choreographer for a junior. At least she'll be noticed because her choreo is done by a currently top-rate skater.
Thanks for the link though, I've missed this entry. Indeed it seems he's doing the actual choreo.
Weell, to be honest he skated for what he didn't like constantly when he was paired with Mukhortova, so no wonder he wants to have more choice now. Plus it's not like Maxim himself is a talentless skater with no artistry whatsoever. They both gain a lot from the partnership, IMO.
This. And as a result of his new found "freedom", I think he's doing a lot of experimenting. I also think he'll refine his choreography with time. Last season he was excited about their SP music and working with a modern dancer. However, he realized and acknowledged, the original plan wasn't working. They modified the SP considerably by Worlds, but were stuck with the basic program. I think he has good ideas and will be able to develop them over time. Consider Steuer. His programs for S/S are sometimes hit and miss, but overall he's really improved with time. He also benefits with having a pair team that is able to take those edgy programs and perform them well (his other teams not so much).
It always cracks me up when FSU posters get all about Morosov choreography and can't figure out why anybody would use it. If I were a skater and I wanted to win, I wouldn't hesitate one second to use a Morosov program. Which is why he has all the business he can handle. I suspect most don't give a rat's patootie about his personal life. Or even that the programs aren't as aesthetic as others. They only care that if they execute the elements well, the judges will score them higher than the competition because the program is structured to get points. Fans may care, but the bottom line is winning the comp. Or it would be for me if I'd invested the amount of time and money it takes to become an elite skater. Thus, I don't fault any skater for using Morosov as a choreographer or even as a coach. I'm willing to give Trankov the benefit of the doubt that he'll go the Steuer route in the future rather than the Morosov route and hopefully he'll have skaters like S/S who can take that choreography and make it amazing. After all, he and Tatiana haven't done too badly with "crappy" Morosov choreography thus far.
rfisher, the point is that people don't think the program SHOULD be getting the points Morosov's programs often do. The
Duhamel/Radford at Worlds had three level four lifts, and one level three, unless I'm reading the protocols wrong, so I don't know what he's talking about there.
Probably about Radford's broken nose...
Well, the judges seem to think so, and since their's is the opinion that determines the winner of a comp, I'd go with them if I were a skater.
Yeah, cause internet skating fans never complain about the judges....
Of course you're correct - the judges think so, so it makes sense to continue going to him for choreography (ditto to Lori Nichol, who alse gets her fair share of complaints).
His programs are always complex. Some a little less than others obviously but I don't remember Steuer ever doing a basic, simple program.
Yes, I know all that. I'd rather skaters had good choreography instead of Morozov's shit, though.
And I would like the judges to reward complex programs and mark down the basic ones instead of judging on auto-pilot.
I'd like Steuer to chorograph for them as well, but he never gave V/M the same quality he gave S/S (probably because he knew very well Stas couldn't execute the elements). So, I expect V/T will go to Morozov for at least one of their programs through Sochi. And when they are on, it won't matter. Their free at 2012 Worlds was magnificent.
I believe Morozov when he says he will be done with His top team if they don't medal. Commitment is not a word in his vocabulary. His reputation is built on producing quick results and seizing opportunity, not loyalty. He is great at packaging and re-packaging skaters, but as a skater I would hate to have to rely on him in the season leading up to the Olympics.
Since that's not actually what he said (read the subsequent clarification), what do you believe then?
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