Virtue ~ Moir n. 20. L’amour est un oiseau rebelle

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by martyross, Sep 8, 2012.

  1. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    So there is no confusion, when we chatted earlier I saw what you saw. It just doesn't bother me because it is what it is ;D

    And to add further to that if it does bother V&M and they feel like they are being shortchanged they have a choice to change this next season. I think this season with the coaching split they are all (D&W, V&M and Shibs) just trying to keep their feet on the ground and there really is no time to do anything. If they wanted to do something. I believe in the talent of V&M, I really think they have something special that can't be taught.
     
  2. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    Like I said, gamesmanship bothers me very, very much. I'm old-fashioned, I hate it when people use underhanded tactics to win. I believe in using your own style to win instead if copying your rival's. It's not even a style, it's just the way VM approach a program. I would not mind much if it was just the program, but it is not. It's the little things BEFORE the program and AFTER, even.
     
  3. zilam98

    zilam98 Well-Known Member

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    it's funny how after the last season ended, many people wished for v/m to move elsewhere/change coaches. now that that's happened (of course not of v/m's choice)...
     
  4. zilam98

    zilam98 Well-Known Member

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    i do have to say that for most of the top teams' SDs, i love how they're doing one theme for the SD and that they're not using the traditionally known polka music
     
  5. Lissa

    Lissa New Member

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    Weaver & Poje SD is better than D&W imo, Andrew is so beautiful omg:biggrinbo
    I wish someone had it on YT already.
     
  6. hitchem

    hitchem New Member

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    I respect your opinion, but I think that's a bit unfair. I'm glad VM have looked to add complex, acrobatic lifts to their programs because that helps them under the new system, even though I wouldn't label their style "acrobatic." All teams are aware of the criticism they receive from fans and judges. DW have long been said to lack an intimate connection, so of course they would look to put out a program that defies that criticism. Given that ice dance has long emphasized a connection between a male and female partner, I don't think that criticism was unwarranted, and I give them credit for looking to improve. I don't believe that showing affection to help change the perception that they lack connection is underhanded; it's a way of remembering that a performance doesn't stop with the music.
     
  7. maggylyn

    maggylyn Well-Known Member

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    I agree. "Connection" can be elusive and difficult to work on. Kudos to Meryl and Charlie for really trying to address that.

    I don't think it's at all about stealing anyone's style, it's a legitimate aspect of their skating that needed work. It doesn't mean they're all of a sudden going to look like Tessa and Scott. I think both teams will still look unique and different from each other.
     
  8. zilam98

    zilam98 Well-Known Member

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    i also think the the top teams are trying to address the criticisms they usually get e.g. d/w not having enough connection, v/m not having enough drama/fire (specifically tessa herself), and that's why we're getting these kinds of programs/expression from them.
     
  9. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    Thank you.

    Look, I said that if they wanted to work on that weakness, it was commendable. But do it on your own terms, without imitating your rival. That is what they are doing and I do not like it. Does it matter? Perhaps not, perhaps they'll win, perhaps they won't, but this change of tactic, which make no mistake, is a mirroring tactic, is distasteful. I will say this again because I believe you did not understand me: I would not mind it if this new connection they seem to have found were part of the skating, but it isn't. You see the staring, the gestures and movements during the warm-ups and even after the performance is done. That's not them, you and I both know they don't do that. It's out of character. Do Virtue and Moir act that way deliberately? Again, perhaps they do, perhaps they don't, but that's them, it's what they do. It's a ritual. I am not trying to convince you, I want to thank you even for understanding my point of view even if you disagree. I apologise if I did not make much sense, it is 3:00AM here.
     
  10. Sandypaws04

    Sandypaws04 New Member

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    I agree with hitchum, I think Meryl and Charlie are not copying anyone, as much as they are making an effort to find the essence of their program characters and to stay in character, much as actors do, during the breaks. It appears to be a dramatic program where the characters they play have an emotional connection and I think that maintaining that feeling is something I've seen many skaters do. This is not unique or "owned" by any one skater or team. I say good for them to try to capture their characters feelings and hold it for the breaks and then back into the music.
     
  11. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    It's not the how, it's the what. Again, I already said that connection isn't owned by anyone. It's the facial expressions and movements that threw me off, they're surprisingly similar to what you see in most VM performances.

    I believe Meryl said once they liked to be themselves on the ice, they aren't doing much of that now.

    Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2
     
  12. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry I understand what you're saying. I'm not really sure what people are misinterpreting. Look, I commend them for trying to work on their connection and I don't think I'm over-analyzing nor am I being a hater, but come on people how can you look at their new closeness (stopping all of a sudden and staring into each other eyes or the stroking of the hair) and not be reminded of V/M.

    (I was trying to put this in a more articulate way, not sure I succeeded) .
     
  13. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    So, out of my 3 favorite couples, I hate P&B's FD, hate both of I&K's programs... I really really need Tessa & Scott to come through for me... :drama:
     
  14. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    Have you seen I&Ks programs??
     
  15. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    Check the "From Russia with Love" thread in GSD.
     
  16. IoanaC

    IoanaC Active Member

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    Yeah, the only thing that's bearable in I&K's FD are the costumes... A pity, because they're good skaters.

    I already have butterflies in my stomach for next weekend.
     
  17. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. Just watched both. I´ll be kind and say sometimes it takes a whole season to make these programs work. Most of the SDs I´ve seen tend to fly by quickly and theirs seems twice as long. I think they could have done something much more chilling and beautiful to Unchained Melody instead of trying to fit the whole story into a FD with spoken words.
     
  18. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    Their SD costumes aren't bearable though...
    And yeah I watched their FD and was cackling for the entire second half because it was so ridiculously hilarious!
     
  19. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Me too ;)
     
  20. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    I LOVE P/B's FD, but I'm also a huge Rolling Stones fan. I even love the "Start Me Up" part as the song reminds me of someone from long ago now.

    I suppose I'm off to watch I/K's programs now.
     
  21. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    Keep your hopes down. The FD is so bombastic that you have to wonder whether Morozov is being bribed by Bobrova and Soloviev so they can get Russian No. 1 back
     
  22. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    I just finished watching. I don't even know what to think about the SD. As for the FD, why didn't they use the soundtrack from the movie Ghost? At the very least, they could have not used spoken lyrics from the musical. The program is better without sound than with.
     
  23. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Its because of Morozov new methods - they never skate on original music at practice. So how program could go with music?
    But hope they will skate better at competitions.
     
  24. Sahararainfall

    Sahararainfall Active Member

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    Late to the topic but...

    I am also with Golightly with this one, except I do not think it is gamesmanship. I do think D/W is genuinely trying work on their connection, (which for me personally is mandatory with partnered dancing and not "owned" by anybody) but as Golightly clarified, it's the way or "style" by which they are going about it that is throwing some of us off, :confused: , especially after one or two quotes by Meryl about trying not to be who they are not.

    I also would like to point out especially to non-fans reading here and scratching their heads at some of our reactions about this topic is that as fans/ubers/shippers (and other shades of the VM fandom), we have pretty much unearthed every pictures, fanvids, and GIFs documenting and immortalizing every breath-synchronizing hugs, hands on heart, every snuggle, melt-each-other or burn-each-other stare, etc. that have been very much part of Tessa and Scott's "ritual" of preparing for a performance, staying in character and setting the tone and mood for a long time now. Stuffs that probably a general ice dance fan (and definitely D/W fans) don't see or care about. AND there are numerous. Numerous enough for me personally to call this "ritual" a VM trademark. Hence the reaction. You may not agree but we have our reasons for reacting this way.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2012
  25. sequins

    sequins Active Member

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    Just watched both of I&K's 'programs' don't like them. Costumes are bad especially the SD:yikes:. I actually like the FD for about 30 seconds until the voices come in and then I find it cheesy and annoying. I guess it's 'Ghost' right? That's the Demi Moore like outfit that's for sure.

    D&W SD is nice, but I still like W&P's better.
     
  26. Lissa

    Lissa New Member

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    Wish I could find a good quality video of W&P SD to The Sound of Music? anyone know where please?
     
  27. IceIceBaby

    IceIceBaby Member

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    Wait till you see D/W's free dance. When the music ends, they stay on their characters and keep on working that connection...
     
  28. Lissa

    Lissa New Member

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    Meh, Torvill & Dean use to do that, V&M probably will do it too. Nothing really new there...
     
  29. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    Well Bobrova and Soloviev got higher tech base values than Davis and White did. I'm worried for Tessa and Scott if they also get low base value (40.20 vs 37.70)
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2012
  30. IceIceBaby

    IceIceBaby Member

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    Probably not new, but I have never seen them like that.