Virtue ~ Moir n. 20. L’amour est un oiseau rebelle

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by martyross, Sep 8, 2012.

  1. Golightly

    Golightly New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2010
    Messages:
    1,231
    It's not the how, it's the what. Again, I already said that connection isn't owned by anyone. It's the facial expressions and movements that threw me off, they're surprisingly similar to what you see in most VM performances.

    I believe Meryl said once they liked to be themselves on the ice, they aren't doing much of that now.

    Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2
  2. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,859
    Don't worry I understand what you're saying. I'm not really sure what people are misinterpreting. Look, I commend them for trying to work on their connection and I don't think I'm over-analyzing nor am I being a hater, but come on people how can you look at their new closeness (stopping all of a sudden and staring into each other eyes or the stroking of the hair) and not be reminded of V/M.

    (I was trying to put this in a more articulate way, not sure I succeeded) .
  3. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2002
    Messages:
    13,870
    So, out of my 3 favorite couples, I hate P&B's FD, hate both of I&K's programs... I really really need Tessa & Scott to come through for me... :drama:
  4. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,115
    Have you seen I&Ks programs??
  5. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2002
    Messages:
    13,870
    Check the "From Russia with Love" thread in GSD.
  6. IoanaC

    IoanaC Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    582
    Yeah, the only thing that's bearable in I&K's FD are the costumes... A pity, because they're good skaters.

    I already have butterflies in my stomach for next weekend.
  7. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,115
    Thanks. Just watched both. I´ll be kind and say sometimes it takes a whole season to make these programs work. Most of the SDs I´ve seen tend to fly by quickly and theirs seems twice as long. I think they could have done something much more chilling and beautiful to Unchained Melody instead of trying to fit the whole story into a FD with spoken words.
  8. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,825
    Their SD costumes aren't bearable though...
    And yeah I watched their FD and was cackling for the entire second half because it was so ridiculously hilarious!
  9. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    8,610
    Me too ;)
  10. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2008
    Messages:
    1,589
    I LOVE P/B's FD, but I'm also a huge Rolling Stones fan. I even love the "Start Me Up" part as the song reminds me of someone from long ago now.

    I suppose I'm off to watch I/K's programs now.
  11. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,825
    Keep your hopes down. The FD is so bombastic that you have to wonder whether Morozov is being bribed by Bobrova and Soloviev so they can get Russian No. 1 back
  12. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2008
    Messages:
    1,589
    I just finished watching. I don't even know what to think about the SD. As for the FD, why didn't they use the soundtrack from the movie Ghost? At the very least, they could have not used spoken lyrics from the musical. The program is better without sound than with.
  13. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    8,610
    Its because of Morozov new methods - they never skate on original music at practice. So how program could go with music?
    But hope they will skate better at competitions.
  14. Sahararainfall

    Sahararainfall New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    193
    Late to the topic but...

    I am also with Golightly with this one, except I do not think it is gamesmanship. I do think D/W is genuinely trying work on their connection, (which for me personally is mandatory with partnered dancing and not "owned" by anybody) but as Golightly clarified, it's the way or "style" by which they are going about it that is throwing some of us off, :confused: , especially after one or two quotes by Meryl about trying not to be who they are not.

    I also would like to point out especially to non-fans reading here and scratching their heads at some of our reactions about this topic is that as fans/ubers/shippers (and other shades of the VM fandom), we have pretty much unearthed every pictures, fanvids, and GIFs documenting and immortalizing every breath-synchronizing hugs, hands on heart, every snuggle, melt-each-other or burn-each-other stare, etc. that have been very much part of Tessa and Scott's "ritual" of preparing for a performance, staying in character and setting the tone and mood for a long time now. Stuffs that probably a general ice dance fan (and definitely D/W fans) don't see or care about. AND there are numerous. Numerous enough for me personally to call this "ritual" a VM trademark. Hence the reaction. You may not agree but we have our reasons for reacting this way.
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2012
  15. sequins

    sequins New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    826
    Just watched both of I&K's 'programs' don't like them. Costumes are bad especially the SD:yikes:. I actually like the FD for about 30 seconds until the voices come in and then I find it cheesy and annoying. I guess it's 'Ghost' right? That's the Demi Moore like outfit that's for sure.

    D&W SD is nice, but I still like W&P's better.
  16. Lissa

    Lissa New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2009
    Messages:
    303
    Wish I could find a good quality video of W&P SD to The Sound of Music? anyone know where please?
  17. IceIceBaby

    IceIceBaby New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    354
    Wait till you see D/W's free dance. When the music ends, they stay on their characters and keep on working that connection...
  18. Lissa

    Lissa New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2009
    Messages:
    303


    Meh, Torvill & Dean use to do that, V&M probably will do it too. Nothing really new there...
  19. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,825
    Well Bobrova and Soloviev got higher tech base values than Davis and White did. I'm worried for Tessa and Scott if they also get low base value (40.20 vs 37.70)
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2012
  20. IceIceBaby

    IceIceBaby New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    354
    Probably not new, but I have never seen them like that.
  21. Golightly

    Golightly New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2010
    Messages:
    1,231
    It's pointless to worry until we see the program. Besides, DW made some uncharacteristic mistakes today.

    Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2
  22. Lissa

    Lissa New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2009
    Messages:
    303
    Can I ask where to find on here the YT video someone put together of V&M doing the CD Waltz to the Anthony Hopkins piece they will be skating too? Can't seem to find it. Thanks;)
  23. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    8,610
    Charlie had mistake on twizzles and Meryl didnt show deep edges at last SS, so they got level 2 for it. So all is OK :)
    How doy like there choreo, guys?
  24. kosjenka

    kosjenka Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2003
    Messages:
    2,507
    Wow.
    I had no idea there is a trademark on behavior once the music ends.
    apparently staying a character of the music and intense eye contact is strictly protected and Davis & White must stop it right now.

    Some people are freaking out. Tessa and Scott will show their programs very soon and hopefully we will have a new kick ass Carmen after Krylova&Ovsianikov voidy one.
  25. sequins

    sequins New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    826
    I just saw their FD it's ok. Maybe I'll like it more as the season progresses. I didn't like that 'stuff' after the music but they're certainly entitled to do it. See I just don't feel that connection during the performance, mind you it was all fine and good imo but then to see that 'pick you up and look into my eyes' after was kinda strange and not necessary. I know D&W get criticized for their lack of connection but I feel like you either have it or you don't and they do have a connection but it's just different and that's ok. So jmo but I would lose the after music nonsense it's not needed, but what do I know?
  26. martyross

    martyross New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    899
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOnGdZ6iEfU

    hehe! enjoy
  27. martyross

    martyross New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    899
    dunno, i don't think the choreography captures the spirit of Notre dame. maybe it should have been focused on the relation between Esmeralda and the hunchback, giving a clear storyline. it does give the impression of being a program that was put together in little time. i hope Carmen is more coherent and well thought.
  28. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,115
    I didn´t like the program at all. I've always hated the music so it was going to take something special to overcome that (similar to how I felt about FF music). I also get the impression this is a newer program so with that in mind I wouldn't write off this FD, the Canton teams are very hard workers and I think D&W will do whatever they can to save this program as V&M did last year. I do hope that the other choreographer V&M are working with on their FD has a lot of input and that there is more relation between the skating and the music then we saw today in Notre Dame. I think at this point Giselle is the better of the two programs.
  29. kosjenka

    kosjenka Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2003
    Messages:
    2,507
    I've always thought that part of the connection on ice is reflection of lives skaters have off ice, not necessary with each other.

    As we see with Tessa and Scott - ice dancers dont need to be lovers off ice to have sexual/romantic chemistry on ice portraitist a romantic/intense characters.

    I think Meryl and Charlie are doing the right thing with pursuing a new approach and are adding something new to their repertoire. Working on a connection can also be done by working on life and relationships off ice.
  30. Golightly

    Golightly New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2010
    Messages:
    1,231
    You know what? Never mind. I can't repeat enough that this isn't about exclusivity, but methods. But, fine, I won't mention it again, it's exhausting really.

    Sequins, I agree with your post completely. And I also agree with the poster who mentioned that fans are more likely to notice these details and outsiders might think we're crazy. As many of you know, I pay a lot of attention to detail, I love deconstructing a performance and discover its nuances, so that's why this seriously bothers me.

    Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2
  31. martyross

    martyross New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    899
    i appreciate your "strong" opinions and the way you express them. :)
    like i said in the K&C, i was quite surprised by those post-dance moments. the fact is, those moments look spontaneous and sincere in Tessa and Scott's case, like bursts of emotion and affection toward each other. they are not acting. Davis and White probably play a part and i'm not sure it's...uhm, "appropriate" in skating. i mean, the other teams don't do that. the acting should stop when the music ends. otherwise, it's like going overtime with the purpose of captivate the favours of the judges on the artistic marks. and it's not very fair toward the other teams. not to mention the fact that it was a rather awkward acting.
  32. sequins

    sequins New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    826
    Thanks Golightly I wasn't sure I was making sense:)
    I agree martyross about the 'awkward' By all means they can branch out and try new things and try to improve their connection during the program but all I'm saying is the stuff after the music I hope they don't do it again. I like D&W the way they are, they don't need to force stuff.
  33. zilam98

    zilam98 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    1,147
    see the thing between meryl and charlie is that you dont even see them chat with each other the way tessa and scott do, so anything d/w show with regard to connection will appear awkward and out of step. even past teams that had tremendous connection on ice, say a/p, didn't act like that once the music was done. they didnt "force" that connection once the program was done. if d/w really wanted to work on their connection, they should do it more during the actual program and ask the choreographers to create more moments that will force them to look at each other, not just force it after the program
  34. iggie

    iggie New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Messages:
    1,447
    tessa and scott's chemistry, i remember seeing it on stars on ice and i was taken aback. in fact, i even wrote about. ...

    one thing i noticed was tessa and scott's connection. we had been talking about it on fsu a few days before. i knew they had it, but i really understood it well here. in meryl and charlie's split lift, notice that meryl is up in the air, rapturous and charlie is pushing on. kaitlyn and andrew similarly have lifts where kaitlyn is up in the air, pumping her fists, or she's being rotated. andrew is down below, doing his own thing. all these lifts lift the girl, enhance the music and are beautiful to watch... but tessa and scott's lifts are different.

    for tessa and scott, their lifts form of an embrace. even the umbrellas of cherbourg straight line lift, which has her facing away from him, became a hug. or their lifts allowed them to stare deeply at each other, like the pink floyd lift. basically, their lifts were a way to bring themselves closer to each other. a way to show their unity and their need to wrap themselves around each other, grasp each other, hold each other, look at each other... rest on each other. even in the moments tessa and scott didn't have to look at each other, they were. when they could have skated separately, their hands were on each other. when they could have done their own thing, they were in sync. i couldn't see their faces but i could see their connection well. it felt intuitive, like how could they ever skate without skating for each other? in a stadium of thousands, in the spotlights and on the ice, it was just the two of them.

    "we think about bringing people in. we're inviting people into this little world in this moment, and we want people to share it with us, instead of reaching out to them."
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  35. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2003
    Messages:
    2,474
    YESSS!!! ^^^.
  36. Lissa

    Lissa New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2009
    Messages:
    303


    Yes thanks so much!

    Yeah this SD is going to blow all the others awat, no way D&W SD that I saw today will be able to compete with that.
  37. Pratfall

    Pratfall Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    762
    golightly ... I know exactly what you mean .

    You know , I've always liked Meryl and Charlie very much. I prefer V/M personally, but have never felt that you can only like one team at the expense of the other, and I like different things about each team.

    Now, if it was merely that D/W felt that they weren't connected enough during a performance, there are ways of developing that through various exercises and rituals and they could have done / can do at any time . Just go ahead and do it...if it succeeds ,the results will be evident.

    But of course gamesmanship is at play when there is much made of it in interviews, followed by the release of snuggly photos, followed by the OTT choreographed "after performance" at the end of their dance. I've long disliked the over long "pre performances " some couples indulge in, and it tends to have a negative effect on me rather than the reverse.This has always been so , whether or not it was a couple I was familiar with.

    So I wonder how successful the campaign will be outside of D/W's ardent fans ? I'm not sure this approach is really best for them.
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2012
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  38. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,859
    I just hope Tessa and Scott are true to themselves. For the love of God I don't think I'll be able to take it if they start doing weird or awkward things just for the sake of showing their new dramatic sides. Just be genuine and be yourselves guys...pretty please!!! My hope is Jennifer Swan.
  39. Pratfall

    Pratfall Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    762
    Shayyi..Ditto to that.:rolleyes:
  40. girlscouse62

    girlscouse62 Active Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    603
    I just watched Meryl and Charlie's FD. I was disappointed. I usually love the way they connect to their music and Charlie's exuberance. For me, they just didn't seem to have their usual innate musicality. It felt almost as though there was some kind of disconnection to their programme. JMO, but Charlie's facial grimaces made him look like he was suffering a belly ache. Please can I have the Old D/W back?