Virtue ~ Moir n. 20. L’amour est un oiseau rebelle

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by martyross, Sep 8, 2012.

  1. Golightly

    Golightly New Member

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    As for Igor, I'm not surprised. I always knew it. And, yes, that other team must have been VM. It's so obvious what he's doing here. I hope Tessa and Scott kick ass.

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  2. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    Whoa. Let's not get too carried away. I think underhanded is a bit harsh at this point. They are doing all they think they need to do to win. I expect V&M will do the same.
  3. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    So Tessa nd cott need to fight not nly with other competitiors, but with there coaches too.
    Hope they will be OK and Cant wait t see them. Just miss them.
  4. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    A repeat - he said it was "for a team that did not happen". I think, from this text, it's quite clear that "didn't happen" is about that team, not the dance. Tessa and Scott can't be called a "team that didn't happen", can they?
  5. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    Needs to be highlighted. I read it the same as you. I guessed earlier maybe Silverstein and Pekarik. I don't think one could consider Fedor and Jana years ago.
  6. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Did you think Igor could said - i had this idea fro V-M for OG, but after we were split with Marina, i gave my idea to Anna and Luca?
    But its not important now. All happened and Tessa-Scott couldnt change nothing.
  7. Golightly

    Golightly New Member

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    I do not like tactics that involve copying others. In any sport. I find it distasteful, so yeah, I was harsh and I won't apologise for it. Also, this is my opinion, other members of this forum are free to disagree. I say this in case any DW fan happens to read my post and go about saying the VM fans are calling DW's tactics this and that. They are not, only me. You can quote me even :)
  8. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you. I think the top teams need to have there own style.
  9. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    Nothing really new from last year when quite a few people posting in V/M's thread kept saying both Igor and Marina were working against Tessa and Scott. However, V/M prevailed.:D
  10. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    This. I'm not particularly convinced that D/W are really terribly close, but what they are doing is gamemanship, pure and simple. They're not trying to have a closer connection in their own way; they're trying to have a closer connection by copying a team that's considered their closest rival.
  11. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    Of course you can have your opinion. You just seemed excited and when pani gets excited you tend to tell her to calm down ;)

    My opinion is that skaters often imitate other skaters. I´m not convinced though that in this case it's a winning strategy for D&W simply because these two teams have been ice dance in recent years and watched very closely. It's going to be seen as insincere to some and even a bit desparate. Others of course will see it differently and as proof of something else.

    If V&M stay injury free and skate for themselves, developing their programs throughout the season I'm not feeling that worried for them.
  12. Golightly

    Golightly New Member

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    Because Pani tends to overreact. Gamesmanship, however, is very serious. To me, at least.
  13. iNap

    iNap New Member

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    I am worry. T-S made trademark patent on connection. They should sue D-W and get ban on using connection. W-P also steal this connection. This is class action type. Igor should be sued for stealing V-M programs. Marina should be sued for causing this greate trouble.
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  14. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    And maybe when you think pani is overreacting it's just her reaction to something she takes very seriously ;)
  15. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    Gosh you are funny.
  16. Golightly

    Golightly New Member

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    I shouldn't, but fine, let's go.

    I do not think Virtue and Moir patented their connection because you cannot patent something that's innate. As I am sure other teams have shared a similar connection over the years, even Weaver and Poje, yes. Many greats have been known to share a unique connection that elevates their skating to a much higher level, this is not exclusive to Virtue and Moir. Over. The. Years. Can I repeat that? Over the years. If you have a style, own it, my friend, especially if you are a team as amazing as D-W is. Want to work on your connection? Commendable. But I didn't see a team showing, in their own way, they are now more connected on the ice (and off). I saw a team deliberately replicating expressions, gestures and movements. Oh, and before you say you cannot do that because paralinguistic features aren't unique and, therefore, are common to all human beings, think again. There's a little something call idiolect, which includes, yes, paralinguistic features. We know these teams, some know them better than others, but the fact remains that we are able to identify certain things that are unique to each one of them as skaters. Let me repeat that, AS SKATERS, as I do not claim to know them as people. It's very clear what's going on here and it's gamesmanship.


    Quite true. That is fair enough.
  17. Lissa

    Lissa New Member

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    So we can see D&W SD later on Icenetwork for free today!

    What has been the feedback to their SD & FD?
  18. iNap

    iNap New Member

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    This is more trouble than I imagine. Marina cause gamemanship for all teams. V-M not show up at Finlandia last minutes. Igor could sue Marina. Marina want to find out what Igor did and use V-M. I never think this. Why team listens to Marina all the time?
  19. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    Okay I saw the practice video everybody is talking about, I actually think this could be a really good program, but the "new" connection is certainly blatant. The cupping of the face and stopping to stare in each other's eye is very reminiscent of Tessa and Scott. I don't know what to think tbh, but I'm a bit amused at the thought of both teams having intimate stare offs during competitions. This season is gonna be very interesting indeed.


    Dude, you're not funny...at all. And if you're going to mimic/imitate somebody try to be consistent with it--you're just coming across as really lame right now.
  20. Golightly

    Golightly New Member

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    Funny, I agree. Skaters are being used, which is very sad indeed.
  21. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    OK, i will wait untill SC. But V-M see everyday, what D-W are doing. So look like they dont care or even like this.
    And look C-L practice video - how they try to look at each other during stop at FD run-throw. :)
  22. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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    Well, we all know that "Imitation is the greatest form of Flattery". The thing is that others can try imitating, but nobody does it better :)
  23. Lissa

    Lissa New Member

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    Well Weaver & Poje were amazing, great for the start of the season & they are dancing to music from The Sound of Music! These 2 are quickly becoming my favs! Could Andrew be any more gorgeous:p

    Did not like Tanith Belbin going on about how they were weak at the end of the dance, of course she is saving all her gushing for you know who :rolleyes: she needs to get a clue...
  24. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    If Meryl and Charlie got a 71 with that dance, Tessa and Scott should hopefully get a 75 with their SD.
  25. IoanaC

    IoanaC Active Member

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    "Should" being the key-word here...;) Haven't seen D/W's SD yet, so I'll reserve my judgement until I do.
    But I can't wait to watch Tessa and Scott waltz again.
  26. kosjenka

    kosjenka Well-Known Member

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    Meryl&Charlie have a very well choreographed SD and judges awarded highly at Skate Canada.
    I am really excited to see what has Marina come up with for Tessa and Scott! I love their music choice and cannot wait to see it in action!
  27. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't really like Meryl and Charlie's dance. I thought that it should have scored around a 70 and then 69 with the lift deduction. I hate the costumes.
    I think that Tessa and Scott will be fine, but they probably won't be.
    Anyway, I'm glad that Meryl and Charlie are trying to make a Tessa and Scott free because it will show how much of a distance there actually is between the teams.
  28. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    I like the concept of the Giselle SD. I think Meryl still has a lot of work to do, playing a ballerina highlights her flaws, but it´s a good competitive program. From the SD and the bits we saw from the FD I don't think choreographically Marina is missing Igor so I'm excited to see what V&M have!!
  29. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if I agree with the idea Marina made a Tessa and Scott free?? It seems very much along the same lines as past D&W programs (POTO, Samson etc..) It's the sudden affection when they aren't skating where I see imitation. I think that is why I'm not really worried. D&W are doing what they do best in a FD so we know what to expect from them. It's up to V&M to make Carmen work for them.
  30. Golightly

    Golightly New Member

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    Exactly.
  31. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    So there is no confusion, when we chatted earlier I saw what you saw. It just doesn't bother me because it is what it is ;D

    And to add further to that if it does bother V&M and they feel like they are being shortchanged they have a choice to change this next season. I think this season with the coaching split they are all (D&W, V&M and Shibs) just trying to keep their feet on the ground and there really is no time to do anything. If they wanted to do something. I believe in the talent of V&M, I really think they have something special that can't be taught.
  32. Golightly

    Golightly New Member

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    Like I said, gamesmanship bothers me very, very much. I'm old-fashioned, I hate it when people use underhanded tactics to win. I believe in using your own style to win instead if copying your rival's. It's not even a style, it's just the way VM approach a program. I would not mind much if it was just the program, but it is not. It's the little things BEFORE the program and AFTER, even.
  33. zilam98

    zilam98 New Member

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    it's funny how after the last season ended, many people wished for v/m to move elsewhere/change coaches. now that that's happened (of course not of v/m's choice)...
  34. zilam98

    zilam98 New Member

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    i do have to say that for most of the top teams' SDs, i love how they're doing one theme for the SD and that they're not using the traditionally known polka music
  35. Lissa

    Lissa New Member

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    Weaver & Poje SD is better than D&W imo, Andrew is so beautiful omg:biggrinbo
    I wish someone had it on YT already.
  36. hitchem

    hitchem New Member

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    I respect your opinion, but I think that's a bit unfair. I'm glad VM have looked to add complex, acrobatic lifts to their programs because that helps them under the new system, even though I wouldn't label their style "acrobatic." All teams are aware of the criticism they receive from fans and judges. DW have long been said to lack an intimate connection, so of course they would look to put out a program that defies that criticism. Given that ice dance has long emphasized a connection between a male and female partner, I don't think that criticism was unwarranted, and I give them credit for looking to improve. I don't believe that showing affection to help change the perception that they lack connection is underhanded; it's a way of remembering that a performance doesn't stop with the music.
  37. maggylyn

    maggylyn New Member

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    I agree. "Connection" can be elusive and difficult to work on. Kudos to Meryl and Charlie for really trying to address that.

    I don't think it's at all about stealing anyone's style, it's a legitimate aspect of their skating that needed work. It doesn't mean they're all of a sudden going to look like Tessa and Scott. I think both teams will still look unique and different from each other.
  38. zilam98

    zilam98 New Member

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    i also think the the top teams are trying to address the criticisms they usually get e.g. d/w not having enough connection, v/m not having enough drama/fire (specifically tessa herself), and that's why we're getting these kinds of programs/expression from them.
  39. Golightly

    Golightly New Member

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    Thank you.

    Look, I said that if they wanted to work on that weakness, it was commendable. But do it on your own terms, without imitating your rival. That is what they are doing and I do not like it. Does it matter? Perhaps not, perhaps they'll win, perhaps they won't, but this change of tactic, which make no mistake, is a mirroring tactic, is distasteful. I will say this again because I believe you did not understand me: I would not mind it if this new connection they seem to have found were part of the skating, but it isn't. You see the staring, the gestures and movements during the warm-ups and even after the performance is done. That's not them, you and I both know they don't do that. It's out of character. Do Virtue and Moir act that way deliberately? Again, perhaps they do, perhaps they don't, but that's them, it's what they do. It's a ritual. I am not trying to convince you, I want to thank you even for understanding my point of view even if you disagree. I apologise if I did not make much sense, it is 3:00AM here.
  40. Sandypaws04

    Sandypaws04 New Member

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    I agree with hitchum, I think Meryl and Charlie are not copying anyone, as much as they are making an effort to find the essence of their program characters and to stay in character, much as actors do, during the breaks. It appears to be a dramatic program where the characters they play have an emotional connection and I think that maintaining that feeling is something I've seen many skaters do. This is not unique or "owned" by any one skater or team. I say good for them to try to capture their characters feelings and hold it for the breaks and then back into the music.