Virtue/Moir in 2010 or Davis/White in 2014?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Maofan7, Jul 19, 2014.

Better Performance - Virtue/Moir in 2010 or Davis/White in 2014?

Poll closed Aug 19, 2014.
  1. Virtue/Moir at 2010 Olympics

    132 vote(s)
    46.3%
  2. Davis/White at 2014 Olympics

    148 vote(s)
    51.9%
  3. Don't Know

    5 vote(s)
    1.8%
  1. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Member

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    Which was the better overall performance - Virtue/Moir at the 2010 Olympics or Davis/White at the 2014 Olympics?
     
  2. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I went with V&M in 2010 just because I thought their skating and performances there were so magical. That is not to say Davis & White weren't excellent in 2014 and deserving of winning (and excellent in 2010 in coming 2nd), and that V&M weren't excellent again in 2014 in coming 2nd. Just V&M in Vancouver had that special something that put it a bit above for me.
     
  3. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    Both were as technically good, but V&M in 2010 did have more magic than D&W in 2014. Scheherezade didn't seem quite impactful enough for an Olympic program.. not that V&M picked the best program last season, either. Both were quite underwhelming. It's too bad D&W hadn't left Phantom for Sochi.
     
  4. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Phantom is kind of a generic piece to use in this day in age. I would rather see D&W do one of their 2011-2013 FDs in Sochi.
     
  5. forthewin

    forthewin Active Member

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    V/M 2014. That short dance alone worths another OGM.
     
  6. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    ITA
     
  7. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    Die Fleidermaus wouldn't have been a bad choice, actually.
     
  8. tortellini

    tortellini Member

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    their short dance performance was the best performance in the whole competition including free dances and should ve single-handedly won them another gold.
     
  9. jenji124

    jenji124 Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Should have been in the lead by a wide margin and probably should have gotten a perfect score.
     
  10. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Well-Known Member

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    Yep totally agree! I could see either winning with the 2014 FD's, but the 2014 SD was no contest and should have had V/M in a solid lead. That was imo their top program of their entire competitive career, even surpassing what they did in 2010.
     
  11. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    VM 's SD was spectacular. Should have had a significant lead.
     
  12. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I think V/M's SD is by far the best SD I've seen since SDs were created. It was like a real OD. But then I'm not a big fan of the SD format.
     
  13. sylvestercat

    sylvestercat Member

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    V&M were better in 2014 than 2010 and still lost handily to the 2014 D&W. So obviously D&W of 2014. V&M have more fans on this forum so will win the poll though, regardless if it makes sense or not. Like all FSU polls the popular one wins, no critical thinking is involved, and everyone just votes who they like most.
     
  14. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    I believe the Sochi Olympics was more to do with protocol judging and the fact that Virtue/Moir had competed with a history of so many errors while Davis/White had competed with a history of so many clean performances that the tables had turned and fortunes/momentum had shifted so much in favor of Meryl & Charlie that the judges believed Tessa & Scott to be the inferior team. Even though they were flawless in the individual SD & FD, Virtue & Moir's tarnished reputation of making so many mistakes had legitimately delegated them to 2nd best in the framework of the competition. They needed mistakes from Davis & White to help them get to gold, which wasn't going to happen. Flawless consistency helped ensure the victory for Davis & White.

    It probably would have helped Tessa & Scott more too if they had dumbed down their concept for their 2014 season FD. I don't think a lot of people understood what they were trying to convey and when you are presenting your material before a multilingual/multinational judging panel and audience, it's probably best not to air on the side of confusion, particularly during the biggest season of an athlete's career (Olympic season). I truly believe their 2013 season FD to Carmen if skated flawlessly with ease and confidence would have been tremendously well received in Russia and along with the strike contrast of their 2014 SD would have made such a dramatic and versatile color palette and impression on everyone; perhaps so much that Tessa & Scott might have been able to squeeze out another Olympic win. Just in my personal opinion, Tessa & Scott's 2014 FD did not exhibit as much growth, versatility, or improvement from 2010 as Meryl & Charlie's progression from 2010 to 2014; it was clear that Davis & White had gotten better since Vancouver. Nevertheless, I agree with the consensus that Tessa & Scott's 2014 SD was better than any other dance presented in Sochi from any team in the event. So charming, so romantic, and so magical! :encore:
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2014
  15. sylvestercat

    sylvestercat Member

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    Your points are all very good. I am sure the momentum and consistency Davis & White had built up and shown was in their favor, and against Virtue & Moir. To those talking about the so called controversial wins or favortism for D&W over V&M, which might have existed in the last year; just keep in mind it works both ways. Virtue & Moir made mistakes at both the 2010 and 2012 worlds and won over D&W who skated cleanly. 2012 especialy was silly, when V&M had that awful FD which was their worst ever this year, and made a big mistake on top of that. Still won both the TES and PCS. Judging was just as biased to them then, as it might be to D&W now, but just like D&W now, V&M had the momentum and built up years of the judging favor at that point.

    I do agree V&M should have won the OD in Sochi. I agreed with D&W winning the FD though, and perhaps they still win overall. Who knows. I still think both D&W and V&M of 2014 would beat either V&M or D&W of 2010, so in this thread D&W should be the obvious winners as the question is asked. Neither V&M or D&W were totally unchallengable in 2010 like they were in 2014. Had Domnina & Shabalin and Delobel & Schoenfelder been healthy and really ready for the 2010 games D&W probably wouldnt have even medaled, and V&M would have been much more hardly challenged.
     
  16. annabrown

    annabrown Member

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    Davis & White of course. V&M's scores from Vancouver translated to the current scoring factored points would not have even beaten I&K for the silver in Sochi. V&M are a better team now then 2010, as both D&W and V&M are incredible skaters who kept improving all the time, and they still lost to D&W in Sochi.
     
  17. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    I think it wasn't silly at all. You may think that 'Funny Face' was "awful", but that's just your personal taste, nothing more. Skating wise it was probably their most difficult FD and much more difficult than Davis/White's 'Die Fledermaus' with it's constant two footed skating (only 'Notre Dame' rivaled it in that regard). Also, the so called "big mistake" didn't happen on an element, therefore that stumble (which wasn't even that noticeable during the skate itself - at least on TV) can't be considered such a big mistake at all, and there was no way how it could have influenced their TES. And, considering the aforesaid, it was not surprising that Virtue/Moir still got the better Skating Skills component mark. The Execution part of the Performance/Execution component is really the only part where they could have lost a bit, but, considering that they still had the better lines, toe-point and skated closer to each other, even that is debatable. Probably the Transitions component could have been more equal - I would have to rewatch both FDs now to really tell. The Choreography component is not about which choreography you think is nicer or more "exciting", many more things are involved in it which would be too lengthy to discuss for me at the moment. And Interpretation is not about which music is more universally liked - often the music that less people like is more difficult to interpret which I think this was the case here.
     
  18. kristykremes

    kristykremes New Member

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    Most people at the time thought V&M's win at the 2012 worlds was wrong. Many of the commentators thought so too, and the coach of both teams seemed to think this.
     
  19. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    I don't remember such a thing. It is very likely that most of Davis/White fans and also the larger part of the general public who judge the skating performances, especially ice dance performances, on the level of "like"/"don't like" and which performance is "more exciting" for them thought so, but then both groups would have thought so even if Virtue/Moir hadn't made that one stumble. As for commentators, probably some of them thought so too, but not all of them. Not to mention that many figure skating commentators are not that knowledgeable at all, and tend to judge the performances in a similar way as the general public.
     
  20. kristykremes

    kristykremes New Member

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    I guess we could say the same thing about those who complain about the Sochi results (likewise mostly Virtue & Moir fans). I don't have a favorite between those two teams so I am neutral, but I do remember more people complaining about the 2012 worlds than the 2014 Olympics. Their coach Zueva seemed to disagree with the 2012 result too.
     
  21. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    But those Virtue/Moir fans mostly have sounder arguments than "they had the better/more exciting program", or "Virtue/Moir stumbled" (at the same time not taking into consideration that they won the TES on the base value and that their FD was more difficult, not to mention that they had already won the SD part also first of all on the TES base value which very few argued - yes, I know that Virtue/Moir lost the SD in the Sochi individual event partially because of TES too, but there are counter arguments to that).
     
  22. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I am not a dancing expert, but I find D&W to be sloppier in their leg lines and form than V&M. Not Bobrova & Soloviev sloppy but noticeable nonetheless. They sometimes seem to be on a less secure edge during the more difficult elements and steps too.

    I think D&W have presented themselves as more exciting, attacking, and gained momentum by lack of mistakes which helped push them over V&M in the judges eyes. Sochi seemed to be a close contest, but the grand prix final this year was a farcial victory for D&W (one doesn't even need to be a dance expert to tell at that event). The grand prix final made it obvious to me D&W were going to win in Sochi no matter which both teams did there. I am not saying they didn't deserve to win in Sochi as the teams were far closer there, but it became obvious well before Sochi D&W had gained all the judging momentum and favor by then. It didn't even feel like an exciting showdown anymore like it used to be, but more a coronation.
     
  23. bronwynsings

    bronwynsings Active Member

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    Even as a D/W fan, I did think V/M's SD was absolutely fantastic and better than D/W's. (I did still like My Fair Lady though) But Schez blew V/M's FD out of the water, IMO. The FD just felt like an attempt to bring the magic of Mahler back, but it just didn't work. Schez was a very exciting program, and although it might not have been the strongest program, V/M's FD just felt kinda meh in comparison.
     
  24. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I really liked V/M's Four Seasons FD earlier in the year. By Sochi, as a champion of that FD, even I had to concede it just didn't gel the way it should have whereas D/W's Schez was ready from the gate. The difference in confidence in execution was quite clear between the two teams.
     
  25. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with both of you and with their superior and bolder attack of the FD D&W would have won in Sochi anyway. However the SD judging in Sochi where D&W had a lopsided win (something it seems even D&W fans know was crazy) to take a big lead into the FD, shows the tide was so far in V&M's favor by then, there was nothing they could have done even if they had a free program to win on merit. The grand prix final where a visibly subpar D&W with some poorly done twizzles, and skating what I am sure is their poorest performance in years even if there was no huge mistake, still beat an absolutely perfect V&M, showed that too.
     
  26. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    Scores should not be taken into account here. This poll is about personal preference of performance.

    So in my opinion i pick Virtue and Moir as the better performance.
     
  27. Casey2

    Casey2 Member

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    I am no ice dance expert, but I am going to express an oppinion (and then duck). V/M were mesmerizing in their FS in 2010. After that, I felt that they had peaked and lost direction. D/W had some truely innovative SDs (Indian, Giselle) and kept gaining momentum adding much more emotion to their FDs. I seem to remember Marina saying, after this season, that if either team came back they would have to change direction and reinvent themselves in order to be competitive (my paraphrasing). I had the impression that Marina felt that after you won OGM, you should retire. Perhaps this influenced their respective progams. I totally loved V/M in 2010, not so much after, even though their skating skills were top notch. D/W kept improving overall and had the momentum (as a previous poster observed). So, in conclusion I can't decide.
     
  28. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    I vote for the team that won Olympic gold on foreign land.
     
  29. forthewin

    forthewin Active Member

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    How pathetic can some D/W fans get? Based on the votes of D/W jumped 50 overnight, let me have a wide guess. Most of the people voting for D/W are Americans, while a lot of those voting for V/M are not Canadian. I wonder why.
     
  30. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    I find it funny that you insinuate I'm a D/W fan when just last year some of their pissy fans accused me of being a V/M fanatic because I said something less than complimentary about Meryl Davis. :lol:

    My favorite ice dance teams were almost exclusively Russian. K/P :)swoon::swoon::swoon: (huge gap), G/P, K/O, I/K :(:(:(:( and a young U/Z circa late '80s. Pretty much if the ice dancers were Russian and their names weren't Bestemianova & Bukin, I cheered for them. :D

    I didn't have a horse in the race in Vancouver. My favorites in that group of contenders were F/S but they didn't have a legitimate shot so I could watch the top 4 objectively. I preferred D/W to V/M at the GPF and Olympics that year, but everyone knew going into Vancouver that they didn't have a shot at winning in Canada. It's not a popular thing to say because V/M's fans lose their shit if anyone didn't agree with their win but there you go.