Virtue/Moir #24: We Like it Hot

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Proustable, Jan 20, 2013.

  1. zilam98

    zilam98 Well-Known Member

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    wasnt it thought in some quarters that marina resisted having outside choreographers since she does most of the choreography herself? although i thought that combo did happen with v/m's PF FD in 2009, didnt it?
     
  2. girlscouse62

    girlscouse62 Active Member

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    Jennifer Swan worked with them in 2009 when Igor was still present and accounted for. Great Gig was a wonderful programme IMHO. I loved it.
     
  3. rainbowkisses

    rainbowkisses Banned Member

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    oh i forgot about that :shuffle:
    but remember they said they already choreographed a routine before they brought jennifer swan in? i assume the routine they scrapped looked alot like c/l
     
  4. zilam98

    zilam98 Well-Known Member

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    it might, but again, like i said, c/l dont have the artistry and talent of v/m, so even if the choreo would've been generic, v/m would've at least elevated it to a higher level. maybe not to the artistic level like it is now, but certainly not as plain as c/l's. i think that if igor were around to look on the tech side of things, stuff like the downgrade on the spin might have been caught/worked on earlier. wasnt it known that he was the technician on that team?

    i just think that the combo of marina + swan + igor would've had a more powerful and efficient impact on carmen.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013
  5. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

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    Here are my thoughts:

    For SD if both teams get the same levels, I have to be honest that I would mark D/W a bit higher in the PCS. Their Giselle is really really well choreographed and brilliantly incorporates all three dance required dance rhythms which I think deserves bonus points.

    For FD though I still don't think Carmen is beatable if politicks are discounted. If skated to potential, this FD deserves the highest marks out of all the FDs because of its intricacy, boldness, and breaking all molds you'd expect from a COP Carmen.

    Of course with politicks, if there is a secret plan to put D/W and V/M as close as possible, then writing is on the wall for D/W to win Worlds this year. If V/M wins then they have 3-1 record against D/W this quadrennial, where their only loss was during an injury recovering year. I guess I'm not that nervous for Tessa and Scott because I'm prepared for them to lose this year. It's just a pity that of all FDs it's this Carmen that's being thrown under the bus.
     
  6. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    I think you all forget 1 thing - Funny Face never lose to DF untill Team WCh in Japan :D
    And isnt Canadain pannel show they are stupid if they didnt know the rules? Or they think they know the rules better, then ISU tech ice dance comettie?
    You didnt paid attention to this last season, but i did - they DIDNT change NOTHIN after Nationals and get for the same lifts level 4.
    And for me this all love to V-M, when they lose, look so funny. And things will changed after after T-S will win.
    T-S will lose and even with perfect skating you will find so many bad things in there skating, when D-W alwayse perfect. I cant understand, why Tessa didnt made jumps, she need forget about her lines maybe then judges will see something good in V-M skating?. Thats all. So if you dont care - its OK. But lets face the truth - who said V-M have vest skills? Maybe you didnt look at prortols at all. :)

    As for judging semonars. I know, what they are talking about. Before 2010 OG they were talking about V-M and how all others need to do there elements. Now - D-W have better edges in SS, SD have more transitions.
     
  7. Carmen Ovsiannikov

    Carmen Ovsiannikov Well-Known Member

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    I think this is what some have a problem with.

    V&M by no means should win if they don't deserve to (and they haven't always deserved to; especially certain segments of a competition) but it's ridiculous if they don't win just to satisfy those who complain about the same teams winning all the time automatically being wrong. To satisfy an apparent need to build "excitement" by keeping a "rivalry" going. Sometimes I think some of this rivalry with D&W has to do partly with the dwindling viewership. At least in the U.S.

    ITA if V&M skate well then theirs are the superior programs. Especially the Carmen FD. The thought that in order for V&M to have a shot to win next year they may have to lose this year no matter what is discouraging and part of what continues to be wrong with icedance. I guess if we have to make a choice then I'd rather a second Olympic gold; V&M get to go out on a high note.

    At the moment I think that D&W are "due" another world title to even things out but it's possible that I could be proven wrong. If so then perhaps I can stomach losses (even if undeserved) as long as this year and next follow the same pattern as last season. Wins at 4CC's and Worlds/Olympics.

    I'd also like to say that figureskating is such a weird sport at times. All this talk about winning not mattering; just being able to watch Tessa and Scott skate is a priviledge. Not that this isn't true but I'd love to see the day when football/baseball fans see their team suffer a series of bad calls that cost them the game/shot a the Superbowl/World Series and say "well it doesn't matter. We should be lucky just to get these guys play ball."
     
  8. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    This is so sad all belive in D-W marks. The truth is - D-W only skaters, who could get medal for USA at OG. That all.
    Hope they will lose to I-K.
     
  9. Bue

    Bue Member

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    I bet if we went back a year in the thread, we would find the ^exact^ same posts. MASS PANIC!!!!!!!!!!!

    I don't know what to think. Half the time I think the judges are doing their best to judge what's on the ice. Let's face it - these two teams are really close in ability, and V/M are never, ever fully prepared until Worlds. The other half I believe it's all more or less predetermined, and there is some sort of grand plan, barring any major boo boos. I do agree it's possible that D/W are 'owed' a title this year, but that this is perhaps paving the way for a second Oly gold for V/M. Good grief, reading that back I sound like a crazy woman. In all other areas of life I am a rational human being. Why does ice dance make us so crazy? :confused:
     
  10. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    No. This is the way for gold for D-W in Sochi.
    And if judges did good job, how V-M could get less marks for transitions and choreo in Carmen with the same marks fro presentation and and perfomance?
    Sorry, they never were close. Yes, this what USA judges, D-W team dod with us - they try to made impression this i struth. And look, like all belive. Next step - D-W far better (on 4 pints only at GPF and 10 at Nationals).
     
  11. CatherineC

    CatherineC Member

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  12. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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  13. CatherineC

    CatherineC Member

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    In the "2012-2013 season" someone posted picture of their new sd ending pose.
     
  14. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    Really, all this whining when nothing has really happened only makes you (and the V-M online fan base by association) look bad. It. Was. Nationals. I'm glad my team was scored harshly because that drives them even more. If you see that as an injustice, I prefer to look at it as wake-up call. I think everyone will be marked according to what they produce at Worlds. Maybe I'm naive or stupid, but this sport has changed a lot. This is not a popularity contest. I don't think of teams as being "due" or "deserving", I only see teams that are better than others. If Tessa and Scott skate like they did at Nationals AND get the levels, they'll win.
     
  15. martyross

    martyross Active Member

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    ehm, i think you're over-reacting to the over-reaction :)

    p.s. wow, can you imagine if someone over-reacted to the over-reaction of the over-reaction? and then someone else over-reacted to the over-reaction of the over-reaction of the over-reaction?.... that would never end!
     
  16. Bue

    Bue Member

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    But overreaction is the whole point of this thread! Isn't it? :lol:
     
  17. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    OK, maybe this overteaction thread must be close and you, guys, will have funn in M-D-W-V thread? :lol:
    Situation with V-M remind to me situation woth S-S in pairs at this WCh. They get on two ponts lower marks in PCS, then there main rivals. And look like they never could win again. Aliona looked sad :(, but this is life.
     
  18. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Exactly. Last year, harsh marking at Nationals in both dances spurred them on. They will refuse to be complacent. If you go into threads at Golden Skate, the discussion is that D/W can't win Worlds because it'll be in Canada no matter how they skate. It's just a way for fans to create narratives for themselves should their favourites lose or win (like I mentioned earlier, if we believe that V/M can't win due to politics, it makes them into the underdog and makes their victory that much sweeter for fans who believed that). If D/W wins, their fans will claim it as a ultimate triumph over V/M on home ice. It does make V/M fans look bad, I agree.

    It was Nationals. They scored straight tens virtually across the board. We know that won't happen at Worlds. But more than that, we know that something like that happened last year (giving huge PCS too early) that ended up biting them in the ass as judges restrained themselves at Worlds.

    That stated, if V/M do lose, it doesn't set them up to win Sochi. It doesn't set up anyone to win Sochi.
     
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  19. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Golden Skate in pro-D-W forum. This was made by Doris, who hate V-M and find her place at GS.

    V-M didnt have there own fans.
    So thats why i feel like this thread didnt have sence ;) So you are not bad, guys, you all time agree with D-w are better, then V-M and alwayse very kind to D-W and to there fans.
    Its i bad person. :lol:

    Again. Guys in this thread is good and support you, D-W fans. So you coiuld be a big happy family.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013
  20. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    pani, you changed your post after I started writing my response. It's not about you. Trust me.

    The pro V/M faction: Hugh Nationals scoring means that the fix is in. V/M didn't against D/W at the GPF and V/M should've had higher PCS there. The fix is in to prevent them from winning 4CC and Worlds.

    The pro D/W faction: Canada is the biggest federation in the World hosting the pre-Olympic championship. There is no way the hometown favourites (skating literally in her hometown) are gonna lose. The judges are going to give it to them no matter how perfect D/W are.

    My point: both groups behave similarly. It's not about being nice. I remember reading Golden Skate after Nice - it was unpleasant (though not as bad as it is now regarding Osmond. You'd assume she killed the puppies of the World the way they talk about her). And in the end, the group that wins is able to hold the "moral" high ground - we see it all the time. But what's the point in anticipating the worst? What pleasure do you get out of thinking bad things over the next two months?
     
  21. iNap

    iNap Active Member

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    If D-W both donate they can be 12 pints. V-M also can reach by donate same 12 pints. blood donation is good for Worlds. Carmen is hot blood ;)
     
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  22. Scrufflet

    Scrufflet Active Member

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    Some wise word here about both groups and about Osmond too. Let's all exhale!
     
  23. rainbowkisses

    rainbowkisses Banned Member

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    ugh some v/m haters are so self-righteous its sooo annoying. they should really get over scott's comments at gpf/wtt but i guess that just shows that they're obsessed with v/m

    :rofl: :rofl:omgg that will sure help with the 'moral' high ground ;)


    d/w fanbase is just as bad (you guys dont know how many times i got harassed by d/w fans on tumblr/twitter/lj and other communities) and if they get to complain about v/m's scores then we get to complain about d/w's scores because you know, the judges created level 6s just for d/w and i wouldnt be surprised if d/w are the first team to get 11pcs ;) :lol:

    it doesnt say innovated tho :confused:

    you meant renovated right?

    anyways someone should update their page with a photo of their carmen routine

    sorry i meant the choreography would look like c/l's (i remember awhile back in the other threads people were speculating that c/l got v/m's scrapped carmen)

    eta: if v/m do lose with carmen, it will be sad that they would lose to ND of all routines. d/w can do better.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013
  24. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    So what's the highest combined SD and FD score?
     
  25. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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  26. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    This season? 119.5 (FD perfect score) + 81 (SD perfect score) = 200.5

    But in the 10/11 season the GW was worth more, so it was slightly higher. Last season was the same as this one re SD, but the scoring choreo-lift was added.

    rainbowkisses, I absolutely agree. Some D/W fans take it too far. So do some V/M fans. It's how fandom works on one extreme end.
     
  27. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks - I really hope that Virtue and Moir can break 200 because I think that they deserve it, but I doubt that it will happen. That said, their Mahler program got all 3's on their lifts, so maybe it's possible?
     
  28. CatherineC

    CatherineC Member

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    Yep, I meant renovated. :wall:

    My english sucks :D

    But I agree with you about that they should update their page with Carmen routine.
     
  29. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Zoueva interview at USA Natioanls.

    http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130127&content_id=41199020&vkey=ice_news

    Poor Tessa :lol:

     
  30. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    It's not merely about getting all threes. It's about getting that and virtually all tens over two programs. 200 is just HUGE. No one has even broken 190 after the CDs were dropped.