Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Proustable, Jan 20, 2013.
They lost 9.5 points on levels and long lift deductions.
Sorry, but from last two seasons i see there no in Canada specailists, who could help skaters with levels and PCS in ice dance. And only at GP they found they did wrong elemnts or somethinf like this. And two last seasons only V-M found at Nationals so many mistakes, but at the same time this specialists couldnt tell what spin T-S did in FD.
I V-M alwase have weakness. And even Comes-Buckland had better tech marks, then V-M.
Just to put things in perspective D&W marks at 4CC in 2012 were significantly lower than they received at their Nationals. V&M got better marks at 4CC than they got at nationals. Although this year they got fantastic marks for SD so that will drop. Japan is D&W territory but so was 4CC last year.
All that doesn't really mean much except to say that anything can happen lol. I do think we all need to just enjoy the fantastic programs V&M have this year and just focus on that and enjoy them while we can.
I am not talking about D-W marks at Nationals and i know they alwayse will be perfect and get higher marks, but i am talking about what canadian officials did with V-M second time in two years at Nationals. Like all others were perfect? Or what marks W-P will gte at Nationals with this marks to V-M? I think they could made at least Nationals to them less stress-full, but know. Maybe becasue they are traning in USA.
Dont want to watch 4CC and even WCh "live". Eurosport 2 will show 4CC this time.
you're too competitive, pani Tessa and Scott were not treated bad at all and anyone can make mistakes, even figure skating tech specialists ( you make it sound like someone was murdered and teared apart (
I'd rather have the Nationals tech panel be hard on V/M this year, as there are no Canadian judges at Worlds. Better to go in knowing what needs to be made super-clean than to be inflated and then be without support at Worlds.
guys its just nats there is nothing to worry about
lets go back to talking about tessa and scott
Me. I'm freaked out and nauseous.
I think the writing is on the wall that V/M are not going to win 4CC or Worlds this year. It's not because I don't think they're going to be ready--I think come worlds, V/M will most likely go in there and lay down the two best programs. I think it's all political, and I think it was decided before anyone set foot on competetive ice this season that D/W would win this year. I know some say that idea is unpleasant. I know some say that with IJS, the judging is fair and there aren't the cheating and deals anymore. I think it's very naieve to think that all of that went away with the new judging system. If anything, IMO, between the anonymous judging and number of individual marks that go into the final score, it actually makes it easier to hide when a team or skater is being overmarked at the expense of another.
Altogther, IMO , with what we've seen with the scoring compared to the actual skating, that V/M just don't have a snowballs chance in hell. It doesn't matter how well they skate or how great their programs are when the placements come down to politics.
Makes a lot of sense to me.......even though Worlds is in Canada, there will be no favors handed out to them for sure. It's best they have crossed their "T"s and dotted their "i"s. It's a good thing.........
it doesnt matter if v/m lose worlds (even though it will be sad if they lose on home ice at their last wch) imo it will set them up to win in sochi
and im p. sure there will be people in russia politicking for them to win considering everyone there loves them
remember when TAT gave them a standing o at COR?
plus their loss at gpf really means nothing they always lose gpf because they're never prepared
d/w's momentum always dies in the second half of the season while v/m's momentum rises
I don't think so. Momentum matters in ice dance, and if V/M don't beat D/W a single time this season, it sets D/W up to win it all next year too.
The marks for Tess and Scott's FD were appalling. I was so angry that it has taken me this long to be able to articulate what I feel. I have been so sad for Tess and Scott, and so angry with the judging system that I am to the point of not wanting to watch any figure skating other than T/S's performances without the marks. Whatever happened to the idea that this judging system would have integrity, and that this would make it virtually impossible for the judges to rig the outcome? I did watch the US dance and thought M/C were superb. However, I don't see any great changes (other than the music) in their FD. With Tess and Scott, whether you like their programmes or not, they are always different and so very innovative. For me the biggest difference between T/S and M/C is that while both teams are incredibly musical, Tess and Scott dance and M/C skate. I will probably never see them live in competition, but am so grateful and amazed that I will see them in Vancouver at SOI. Sorry for the rant, but I don't see anything fair or right in what's happening.
anything can happen with judging, but i would not be so sure that it's already written on the wall. see last year. right now i see two powerful federations playing the usual games and throwing in big marks just to self-celebrate themselves. this time of the season is a big carnival in which anything is allowed. but the real politicking will start after Four continents I guess. now its just a friendly game and its all about which one throws the highest PCS score.
Today I had the thought that V/M should keep their black Carmen in 2014. There is still lots to be done to improve it, and it would be an excellent Olympic piece. I know they are not ones to use the same choreography for two seasons but in this case I think it would be a good idea so they can continue to improve their interpretation
Competing with the same program twice in a row is the kiss of death in ice dance.
I swear you said the same this time last year. Breathe! It will turn out all right.
I think we all know which program has peaked and which one has ten more points to grow.
Some of you talk about Virtue and Moir as if they were the victims of some evil conspiracy. These are the Olympic and two-time World champions, for God's sake, a bit of trust and respect, would you? There's a high inflation at both Nationals, though the Americans went a bit overboard. Hello? Three lesser teams broke the 100-point mark. I seriously doubt V-M and D-W get those kind of scores in their two next competitions.
So, have a little faith, would you? Our team has two magnificent programs and the best skating skills on the planet. Trust that. You are so obsessed with what D-W do that you're hardly enjoying Carmen or the waltz. Go to YouTube and watch them again and again and think, boy, aren't they amazing? Who does that? Who takes that risk? Value that, people. In the end, that's what will be remembered.
the americans always go abit overboard
Amen! This doom and gloom seems all to familiar. In fact it's getting to be a trend every year since 2010 and in that span they've managed to win 2 World titles and Olympic Gold. Can we please just wait and see for once? Then IF it happens feel free to rant and rave but until they officially 'get shafted' at Worlds can we calm down. It's Nationals. D/W won and V/M won that is all that matters. Scores at Nationals DO NOT matter at worlds and anything can happen, just ask Bourne and Kraatz.
Now as far as keeping 'Carmen' for the Olympic year. Yea...No never gonna happen. It's a death sentence in dance especially when you are a top team.
After the GPF I asked Aussie Willy - who had just done a dance judging seminar if she agreed with the results and she said she did and gave very specific reasons. She said the judge's seminar really opened her eyes to reasons for results. The other thing is -that at Canadians - had VM not lost 3 points for their lifts (brings them up to 110) and been assessed a level 4 instead of 1 for their spin -(can someone in teknik fill us in the points difference there?) that would have achieved a result much closer to DW Nats result. Whether any of us agree or not - these 2 teams are pretty much equal in the eyes of the judges -
Anyhow - no worries for me Golightly - and I am sure for a few others! I have been enjoying VM's dances immensely! Me worrying that they won't be able to win and will therefore be disappointed- does not get in the way in one little bit of my fawning over the dances! I am also loving seeing them grow all year! Love love love where the SD is and I look forward to seeing where Carmen will be the next time they skate it and the time after that - when I get to see it live!
Yes, that's the one! It just stuck out to me as so them.
As for placement and who will win, etc, I think Tessa and Scott have proven in the past that despite our worrying and underestimating them, they always come out, skate and perform, and surpass any political or other factors. They work hard and are acknowledged for that. I mean, the only worlds they didn't win was 2011, where it was their first full competition. That was pretty darn good considering the year they had. I guess what I'm trying to say is that they'd want us to focus on their skating, and not read too much into other things.
I agree, let's not panic just yet. If Tessa and Scott aren't 3-time world champions in March, then we can start a riot!
I think the judges marks at Canadians were part of a plot to make Davis and White complacent.
The tech panel has done this to V/M two years in a row. Personally, I think it's a great thing, because that's where they can get guidance on what they need to perfect to a point where there is no possibility of anything other than a level 4. I don't think they will get that guidance from Marina.
i wonder how this program would've looked like with igor looking into the tech side of things. i even wonder if v/m would've ever done this program with igor around.
their carmen would look just like c/l's carmen aka generic as hell
c/l dont have as much artistry as v/m do, plus they dont have jennifer swan either. im just wondering how the combo of marina + igor + swan would've impacted v/m's carmen
imo i dont think they would've brought in jennifer swan if igor wasnt fired
i hope scott doesnt gel his hair at 4cc he looks so much hotter with long ungelled hair
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